http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=15392164 Comments On: Savage Love by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Wed, 22 May 2013 19:30:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
Wishing you and everybody safe, happy healthy & prosperous holidays well into 2013 and beyond!


Posted by auntie grizelda]]> Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:32:09 -0800 The Stranger Posted by KateRose]]> Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:50:38 -0800 The Stranger
It's easier to be non-monogamous with a new partner than to open an existing monogamous relationship. I actually find it rarely comes up as a real topic of conversation. I meet someone, we start dating. I'm usually pretty clear that I'm seeing other people if I am, but I also don't expect someone to assume I'm being monogamous with them unless we have made an explicit agreement or we're spending so much time together that they couldn't reasonably think I have time for anyone else. I've also usually spent time around them prior to actually dating them, and it's probably been referenced or disclosed in casual conversation at some point before we became linked. Most people put two and two together when they hear me say, "My partner Bob got a promotion yesterday!" in the morning and "I have a date tonight with Tim, the cute guy from the coffee shop," in the afternoon. Or we have friends in common who filled them before we went out.

If a hookup is totally unexpected we might have a conversation after that first hookup about, "So what does this mean?" where I'll be clear that I'm not looking for monogamy, but I might say something like, "We're clearly not going to keep doing this forever, but I don't think either of us sees the other as a long-term partner, either. So we can do this for a while, but when the time comes for this to end--as we both know it will--let's end it with mutual respect for each other." or "When we go out on dates together, we're out with each other. I won't pick up or ask out anyone else when I'm with you, and I'd like you to do the same for me."

I once started a fling with a guy who was definitely looking for monogamy in the long run, but didn't want to be in a relationship with me, so didn't particularly care that I was dating other people while dating him. I told him after our first hook-up that when the day came that he met a special lady he wanted to become serious and monogamous with, that he should feel free to just tell me, and I would be happy for him and we would end our sexual relationship and just be friends.

So I guess it's roughly the point where monogamous people would have the, "I want us to stop seeing other people," conversation--I just have a slightly different one at that juncture.
Posted by Emily Ko]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:29:53 -0800 The Stranger
I have been thinking about a premise for a short story that centers on a polyamorous relationship for a while now. And people who write fiction can (or should) be obsessed with research and accurate portrayals.

Also, how does one bring up the possibility of non-monogamy with someone she might date?
Posted by midwestkittie]]> Sat, 08 Dec 2012 11:37:49 -0800 The Stranger Posted by auntie grizelda]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 12:22:32 -0800 The Stranger
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph…

Urbandictionary - decipherer of slang to the non-native English speaker and older generations alike.
Posted by mydriasis]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 06:14:33 -0800 The Stranger
@seandr I have massive abandonment anxiety - I have been abandonned as a child, for refusing to submit to further child sexual abuse - but I've never found any sexual jealousy in me. Don't know why.
Posted by sissoucat]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 03:45:16 -0800 The Stranger Posted by sissoucat]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 03:15:56 -0800 The Stranger
Wow. I guess I just can't relate to anybody anymore at all.
Posted by auntie grizelda]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:46:52 -0800 The Stranger Have I pissed everybody in Dan and everybody posting to this column off?
Posted by auntie grizelda]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:44:37 -0800 The Stranger Posted by sissoucat]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:42:11 -0800 The Stranger
@ 240, Sappho: You too are welcome :) . Thanks to all of you for knowing how to throw down when it comes to an interesting, truly thought-provoking chat. Much appreciated. Take care, everyone. Peace.
Posted by kserasera]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 07:54:45 -0800 The Stranger
@ 240, Sappho: You too are welcome. Thanks to all of you for knowing how to throw down when it comes to an interesting, truly thought-provoking chat. Much appreciated. Take care, everyone. Peace.
Posted by kserasera]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 07:49:59 -0800 The Stranger
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=squicky

:)
Posted by KateRose]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 05:58:25 -0800 The Stranger
Posted by Megaera]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 04:52:55 -0800 The Stranger I'm just curious. Anyway, am I close?
Posted by auntie grizelda]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:19:46 -0800 The Stranger Posted by auntie grizelda]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:10:09 -0800 The Stranger I wouldn't be surprised to learn that no woman on the planet finds jealousy sexy in a man

Oh, I would. I think a lot of people, male or female, can find some expressions of jealousy sexy because they push that "I really am wanted" button. I was only saying that I don't find it so in my own life.
Posted by Eirene]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:12:10 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gdfd]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 17:43:15 -0800 The Stranger
we have words for sweetheart, darling, etc - any number of endearments. we can use possessive pronouns: my girl/boy/man/woman. we can specify that someone is our secondary partner, or the head of the house... but the only translations for 'spouse' or 'primary partner' equate to (non-gendered) my best friend.
Posted by sappho]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:32:54 -0800 The Stranger
it's interesting to watch this conversation, and it becomes increasingly clear there is a significant cultural gap.

there seems to be, in america, an odd obsession with ‘labels’… or maybe it’s ‘status’… I’m not sure. But there seems to be a pre-occupation with ‘what is this relationship exactly’, which just seems strange to me.

for instance: over here, 'dating' is something that is done by kids in school, not adults. seriously, once you are a grown-up, there are no need for cute definitions or anything. people go out, they make friends. everyone just makes their own arrangements, as it suits them. Stuff just happens.

… all this has made me think about ‘relationship recognition’, and the social side of relationships… i’ve been talking it over with another ‘real world’ person :-) and she said two things which seem relevant: the first was that maybe the only concrete predictable difference between ‘friends who sometimes have sex’ and ‘partners’ was the longevity of the relationship. The other was that the shift into a relationship which is recognized by the community as ‘a thing’, is an organic and mysterious process which is often not under the control of the parties involved. This I would definitely agree with!!

i’ve just realised, thinking it all through, that in my mind ‘relationships/partners/etc’ are actually completely independent of ‘sex’. but that might just be me.

Posted by sappho]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:22:25 -0800 The Stranger
the difference that happens here is between those who 'just deal' with the fact that they share a lover/partner , or two - and this is more the mainstream culture - and those who are whanau to each other... i guess the relationship is kinda like siblings. logistics depend on the folks involved. different houses makes things easier. it’s not so common for people to share a house with two concurrent lovers unless there are kids involved, but also, it is very common for adults to have their own bed. …anyway… no-one has to sleep on the couch. If all else fails you just all pile in together.

relationship recognition.... it’s social. the legal thing is not so much important. many people don’t bother with it at all. I don’t know how to answer that question. because you just see and know? you probably don’t know for sure who is sleeping with who, except your own lovers, and maybe theirs as well….

Posted by sappho]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:50:40 -0800 The Stranger
"with some vague romantic notion that when I met The One, he or she would withstand everything I threw at him or her and that's how I would know they were never going to leave. That's how I would finally feel secure--by finding the person who couldn't be driven away, no matter how hard I tried."

I fell victim to this myself.. The receiving end and the giving end of that.. It's very hard to get a handle on that and begin to make sense of that, but, yeah, I can relate to that.

Now, if it's just not working out, I set it down, think about it, *breathe*, and then try again with hopefully a much better, balanced approach.

It is great that people can connect the ways they do, but everyone is still singular and their own person at the end of the day. I've forgotten my own self many times over in the past, caught up in all of that.. It's sweet to want to be kind, giving and sensitive and all of that: just not at the expense of your own health to benefit someone else's. There is room for both to be happy and healthy. It just takes time, a bit of focus and a decent amount of inspired effort.


Posted by kserasera]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:32:23 -0800 The Stranger
In a word, yes. Like Hyacinth, polyamory was a solution rather than making it worse, though.

I had some early life experiences that left me with a tremendous fear of abandonment. The sense that everyone I loved would eventually leave me, the sense that in my most vulnerable and needy moments, nobody would be there to support and comfort me. It actually took me a really long time (10, 15 years?) to figure out that I had this fear, because the way it showed up was that I seemed to be VERY VERY VERY into intense, committed, end-all-be-all relationships. When I met someone I liked, I would be saying "I love you" within weeks. If it went over well, the relationships became like little marriages overnight. Instead of hooking up and partying like my peers, I cohabited with 3 different partners over four years in college. We planned our futures, weddings, families, careers together. After college, what happened more often was that my desperation for such an intense relationship scared a lot of my dating partners off--I would ask for too much, too soon, and give too much, too soon--and as these partners abandoned me, the fear of abandonment grew worse, and my desperation and intensity grew worse, and so on in a vicious cycle.

Until I realized that all my desperate hunger for an intense committed relationship was like the raptors in Jurassic Park: I was testing their fence for weakness until I found the spot that would give. I was so afraid--so CERTAIN--they would abandon me, as previous partners had, that I would keep upping the ante: If sending little "thinking of you" love texts two weeks in didn't frighten him off, maybe meeting my parents three weeks in will. If that didn't frighten her off, maybe "I love you" four weeks in will. And so on. On a very subconscious level, I was running my relationships into the ground because there was a part of me that believed it was inevitable that I'd be abandoned and was just trying to speed it along, with some vague romantic notion that when I met The One, he or she would withstand everything I threw at him or her and that's how I would know they were never going to leave. That's how I would finally feel secure--by finding the person who couldn't be driven away, no matter how hard I tried.

I didn't realize this until I tried polyamory and about a year later I suddenly realized that I'd been with the same person for a year--after not being with the same person more than a month in over five years--and that my relationships were healthier than they'd ever been. I realized I had stopped being so intense, stopped being so demanding, and I realized I no longer feared that my partners would leave me. I still recognized it as a possibility, but 1) I knew that, because I'm dating other poly folk, they won't leave me for someone else when they can just date both of us, and 2) I knew that, even if they did leave me, I would have other partners to support me. I wouldn't be crying into my ice cream by myself in front of the TV. I would be crying into the shoulder of a supportive friend or lover who would gently hold me and reassure me that these things happen, that nothing is forever, that I am good and I am loved, and that just because it didn't work out with that person doesn't mean either of us need to be angry at each other, and that I can grieve the loss of the relationship for as long as it takes, instead of forever. I still get sad when a relationship ends, but I'm much more emotionally resilient these days. Polyamory gave me that. It took away my crippling fear.

Which is not to say that it would do that for everyone--I can see how people with more of a naturally jealous nature than me (again, I was never much a jealous person whether romantically or otherwise) might actually find polyamory harder to deal with than monogamy. But for me, it's infinitely easier.
Posted by Emily Ko]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:15:00 -0800 The Stranger
Some people don't get over hurt like that. Or, if they do, it's rarely ever forgotten again. I always felt like I was on the periphery growing up, and I lost a parent when I was young, so the whole getting used to losing people thing isn't that foreign to me..

I think you finally just get to a point where you tire of being or feeling downtrodden, and you begin to pull yourself up out of the mire and trudge onward, because you finally realize that you just have to.

That, and life's a bitch sometimes. Peace.
Posted by kserasera]]> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:12:07 -0800 The Stranger