http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/02/09/oh_narn Comments On: Oh NARN. by Jonathan Golob en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:45:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
"In an attempt to expand animal cruelty criminal laws to cover the treatment of livestock, a Seattle-based animal rights group has filed a lawsuit arguing that existing laws give industry undue control over how animals are housed and slaughtered."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/4009…

Posted by David, NARN Board Member]]> Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:33:20 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Geni]]> Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:24:04 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Rhett Oracle]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:06:14 -0800 The Stranger Incidentally, despite apes being our nearest ancestor, our guts are closer to that of a lions than an apes. Why? Because we evolved into dedicated omnivores, apes are herbivores with the occassional bug thrown in. Bug eating was how our ancestors most likely became omnivores, so in few million years our simian cousins may be chowing down on steak (or fois gras) too.
Also the statement that Hitler's vegeterianism is untrue is an absolute, shameless, outright, lie. Should Hitler's vegeterianism be used to discredit vegeterianism? NO! Can it be used to poor scorn on the argument put forward by SOME vegans that being a vegan makes you a more moral person? Yes. Was Hitler a vegetarian? Yes. Does this make him any less evil? No.

Please bear in mind that because some fois gras manufacturers abuse animals, not all do. I can show you videos of ecstatic geese waddling to the gavage as fast as they possibly can. There are fois gras producers out there which mistreat their animals, and more regulation is required, not bans and not petty protests. Protests may work when the overwhelming weight of public opinion is behind them, but a few dozen vegans complaining about a food the majority have not even heard of is not effective.

@106 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitle…
Historical debate= B.S? Nice logic. He was not a strict vegeterian, and sometimes ate meat, but bearing in mind vegans do not consider people who eat cheese proper vegetarians there is some leeway in definitions. I know people who call themselves vegetarians who do sometimes eat meat, most often to fit in and not ause trouble for caterers or because their will power simply lapses. Hitler was not always a vegetarian, and by some definitions could not be considered a vegetarian, by others he could. The simple fact is it is utterly irrelevent to the modern debate. Stalin was a meat eater, that does not make meat eaters evil. Hitler had vegetarian tendencies, that does not make vegetarians evil. But BS? No.
Posted by AussieFarmBoy]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:00:45 -0800 The Stranger
Free postcards from The Humane Society...you know, that radical terrorist fringe group? You can fill them out and send them to restaurants that serve foie gras and urge them to stop.

Order them here: http://www.hsus.org/forms/foie_gras_card…
Posted by P]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:25:01 -0800 The Stranger
"The only thing of which I shall be incapable is to share the sheiks' mutton with them. I'm a vegetarian, and they must spare me from their meat."
- Adolf Hitler. January 12, 1942. Section 105, HITLER'S TABLE TALK

"One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian."

Adolf Hitler
1941

"At the time when I ate meat, I used to sweat a lot. I used to drink four pots of beer and six bottles of water during a meeting. … When I became a vegetarian, a mouthful of water was enough."
- Adolf Hitler. January 22, 1942. Section 117, HITLER'S TABLE TALK

"When you offer a child the choice of a piece of meat, an apple, or a cake, it's never the meat that he chooses. There's an ancestral instinct there."
- Adolf Hitler. January 22, 1942. Section 117, HITLER'S TABLE TALK

"One has only to keep one's eyes open to notice what an extraordinary antipathy young children have to meat."
- Adolf Hitler. April 25, 1942. Section 198, HITLER'S TABLE TALK

"When I later gave up eating meat, I immediately began to perspire much less, and within a fortnight to perspire hardly at all. My thirst, too, decreased considerably, and an occasional sip of water was all I required. Vegetarian diet, therefore, has some obvious advantages."
- Adolf Hitler. July 8, 1942. Section 256, HITLER'S TABLE TALK

"I am no admirer of the poacher, particularly as I am a vegetarian."
- Adolf Hitler. August 20, 1942. Section 293, HITLER'S TABLE TALK

"An extended chapter of our talk was devoted by the Führer to the vegetarian question. He believes more than ever that meat-eating is harmful to humanity. Of course he knows that during the war we cannot completely upset our food system. After the war, however, he intends to tackle this problem also. Maybe he is right. Certainly the arguments that he adduces in favor of his standpoint are very compelling."

Joseph Goebbels
1942
Posted by Hitler was a vegetarian]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:54:55 -0800 The Stranger
if you want to check out a little more about it, not so much to "convince" you, but simply to engage in higher dialogue, please take an hour and download an episode of the "vegetarian food for thought" podcast. it is a very positive podcast that discusses veganism in simple, kind terms. check it out and please stop calling vegans "insufferable."
Posted by yrnordicfriend]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:08:45 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Will in Seattle]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:50:36 -0800 The Stranger
Without these protests - I wouldn't of known of this restaurant in Seattle. I'm out there in a few weeks - I'll make sure I stop buy and order some.
Posted by yoshi]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:13:05 -0800 The Stranger Posted by your point?]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:13:00 -0800 The Stranger
man, that caused a huge financial catastrophe at the Acme Corporation. Next to go are the anvils, I reckon.
Posted by Mr Fudd, esquire.]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:15:16 -0800 The Stranger
It's like you are validating what we are doing.

Thank you.
Posted by P]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:44:23 -0800 The Stranger http://www.komonews.com/news/15988507.ht…
Posted by Don't they teach Google searching at the Stranger?]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 20:09:17 -0800 The Stranger Posted by use your brain]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:53:18 -0800 The Stranger No, mice, rats, and birds are NOT the most-used laboratory animals. Fruit flies and roundworms make up over 99.9999% of all lab animals. I grow more roundworms on a single Petri dish than there are mice in our entire animal facility. But worms and flies aren't cute, (thank goodness), so nobody is protesting their use.
And I can't speak for UW, but our IACUC does turn down some proposed experiments, and all NIH grant panels I've been on do look at how to use the minimum number of mice required to make an experiment work.
Of course, the number of mice that all research uses is dwarfed by the number that can be legally tortured or killed by householders who find them in the kitchen, where there are no regulations at all on how you can trap, poison, torture, or squash them. But I haven't heard of anyone proposing to outlaw killing rodents or insects in those situations. At least in the university, you have to justify the experiments as having potential benefit to human health.
Assuming that researchers go into it out of a desire to torture animals is as insulting as assuming that all animal rights groups value cute furry animals above human lives. It's easy to point out disgraceful examples on both sides, but dehumanizing the "enemy" is inconsistent with the goal on both sides, to make the world more humane, don't you think?


Posted by Biologist in the stix]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:51:53 -0800 The Stranger
OH - she did quote the web site of Sonoma Foie Gras, which claims that its foie gras production is humane. Not once, but twice. Because we all know that a producer would never, ever, ever fib or lie or distort the truth about their products or practices.

Bethany, if you believe that, I've got a peanut factory in Blakely, Georgia to sell you.

What's even funnier is that her colleagues, the very ones who invented "Stupid Fucking Credulous Hack", and who lob that term at any reporter they think is guilty of one-sided hack reporting, swarm around her in support. Isn't that precious? They can create all kinds of standards for others, but they themselves are above such petty conventions. I'm starting to see how things work over at the Stranger. It's kinda pathetic, because there used to be some smart people running the show.
Posted by Bethany and Dan are the new Ken Schram]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:51:23 -0800 The Stranger
For such a presumably silly and ineffectual action by NARN, it sure seems to have upset the Stranger staff to no end. And you do know that NARN's position re: fois gras is not compatible with political dialogue or the oh-so-adult crafting of regulations, don't you, Mr. Golob?

Just come out and say what you want to directly: direct action against restaurants that serve foie gras is counterproductive to the vegetarian cause. It's a debatable assertion, and intelligent, well-meaning people may agree or disagree... but at least you won't come out looking like a condescending asshole with inane suggestions about crafting regulations that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.






Posted by b]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:54:50 -0800 The Stranger
First, with respect to the Animal Welfare Act and its associated regulations, they are largely ineffectual. Although they regulate cage size and provide modest welfare improvements, they have a very small effect on the state of animal experimentation in the U.S.. For example, they do not prohibit any type of experiment, no matter how painful, how speculative the outcome, or how tangential the benefits to human health. They also exempt mice, rats, and birds, which are the subjects of the vast majority of animal experimentation. The the function of Institutional Animal Care and Use Committees (IACUCs) that approve experimentation protocols is largely to rubber stamp research proposals. I encourage anyone who thinks that the AWA has improved animals' lives to read protocols that have been approved by the University of Washington's IACUC and the documents about animal experimentation that animal rights groups have obtained from the USDA under the Freedom of Information Act to understand the magnitude of suffering that is permitted under the AWA.

Second, Mr. Golob's accusations that NARN does nothing more than engage in protests and that we don't have the patience for arcane research are simply untrue. In fact, NARN is the plaintiff in a lawsuit challenging the exemptions to the state animal cruelty statute for routine practices in animal agriculture. NARN has also challenged cruel treatment of animals under complex environmental laws. As an attorney on NARN's board, I have worked on litigation under the Animal Welfare Act, the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, and other animal welfare legislation. Although we do engage in protests when we believe that they will be an effective avenue, our twenty-two year history of litigation, legislative efforts, educational events, and outreach belies Mr. Golob's claims that protesting is all we do.
Posted by Jenn Kaplan, NARN board officer]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:22:19 -0800 The Stranger
did you know that one of the earliest legendary trolls was when someone in an artificial intelligence newsgroup got marvin minsky into this same meat/veggie debate?
Posted by you can't mess with a classic]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:04:30 -0800 The Stranger
the fact that human beings are capable of digesting meat doesn't imply that any non human animal on the planet lacks a central nervous system or natural lifestyle of it's own.
Posted by olive]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:31:08 -0800 The Stranger Posted by my real slog name]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:25:21 -0800 The Stranger
How's that degree from Evergreen State helping you out there in the job market?
Posted by Minger]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:21:42 -0800 The Stranger Where are you getting your information?? You make it sound as if the entire human population thru out history only eats a miniscule amount of meat and thats simply not true, thru out history or now. Look at the inuit population that historically has thrived on eating whale, or any of the other indigenious peoples of N America. Yes sustained nutrients are provided by fruits veggies and berries but only sustained not maintained. Only in today's supplement happy ecosystem buffered w grocers able to get a variety of veggies and fruits in year round are veggitarians getting their required nutrients.
It can also be historically shown that puberty in both males and females has gotten earlier and later depending on the time frame in question, putting other factors like access to food, stress, quality of life and such as mitigating factors pointing to a cause for the shift...not just an utter puss diet. (milk is gross)
no really.
Posted by drone5969]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:09:50 -0800 The Stranger Posted by use your brain]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:06:57 -0800 The Stranger
It's a crying shame you'll be worm food before that even comes close to happening.
Posted by Finger my Fois]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:05:27 -0800 The Stranger