Friday, July 13, 2012
Crime Banking Today
Posted by Charles Mudede on Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:06 PM
Story...
Russ Wasendorf, chairman and chief executive officer of PFGBest poses at the new building nearing completion in Cedar Falls, Iowa. Employees of the Iowa-based brokerage firm that has been unable to account for $220 million in customer money found Wasendorf in his car at company headquarters, with a tube connecting the vehicle's tailpipe to the interior.
Just look at the guy. He looks perfectly white. He is a man you can trust. He worked hard to get to the top. America is a great and fair country. A man can make a man of himself here. Only lazy people fail. That's how he looks like. But this is how my mind works: If anyone does the research, if anyone added up the total value of what, say, was stolen by 80 percent of the black thieves serving hard time, I'm sure you will find it doesn't equal the amount that this one white thief stole over the period of 20 years. He got away with it for 20 years. And the money is gone with the wind. And, at the end of the day, no will demonize this man's appearance or the color of his skin.
2
There is no evidence that white bankers are more corrupt than black ones, there are just more of them in the west so comparing him to black street criminals is weak.
I could be more sympathetic to your gripe over him not being judged for the color of his skin if it wasn't for the fact that a black male in Florida being killed by a white, err Hispanic, man has gotten more news coverage than the thousands of black on white and black on Asian mob attacks combined. The excuse for this is that it is raaaaacism because he wasn't arrested immediately like a black man would have been. Oh yeah? Google "Daniel Adkins" "Cordell Lamar Jude".
In other discrepencies the same people who call Trayvon's death a "lynching" called Yankel Rosenbaum's lynching a "dispute between communities" and have never raised a fuss over the lack of justice metted out to the lynch mob. Could this be due to skin color?
I could be more sympathetic to your gripe over him not being judged for the color of his skin if it wasn't for the fact that a black male in Florida being killed by a white, err Hispanic, man has gotten more news coverage than the thousands of black on white and black on Asian mob attacks combined. The excuse for this is that it is raaaaacism because he wasn't arrested immediately like a black man would have been. Oh yeah? Google "Daniel Adkins" "Cordell Lamar Jude".
In other discrepencies the same people who call Trayvon's death a "lynching" called Yankel Rosenbaum's lynching a "dispute between communities" and have never raised a fuss over the lack of justice metted out to the lynch mob. Could this be due to skin color?
3
I see that Jack Abramoff is already back on the street. Seems like yesterday that he went into the big house.
5
By that logic, Bernie Madoff did more good than all the Occupy protests put together to re-balance the 1% and the 99%.
He also disproved Social Darwinism, by showing that rich folk be a dumb as poor folk.
6
No one judges all the corrupt bankers in Africa, China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Chile on their skin color either. The reason most corrupt bankers are white in America is because 75% of the population in white and the % of bankers who are white even higher than that. Look at a photo of Stanley O'Neal who had a huge role in sinking Merill Lynch. Black man. Were blacks demonized over it? No.
8
Charles is sadly wrong as usual. If the ~100K black individuals currently serving sentences of 1 year or greater (felony range) for property crimes racked up a little more than $2,000 taken over their entire criminal careers (and that's totally ignoring those in our 20 year window who moved or are moving through the system who are not currently incarcerated, per Charles's "serving hard time" provision), they'd leave Peregrine behind.
Take up Bernie Madoff's $50B, and it's a much different contest.
Sadly, the majority of "hard time" black inmates are in not for property crimes, but for crimes of violence - which crimes score on a much different scale of impact for victims and/or surviving loved ones. And again sadly, their victims are overwhelmingly black.
Take up Bernie Madoff's $50B, and it's a much different contest.
Sadly, the majority of "hard time" black inmates are in not for property crimes, but for crimes of violence - which crimes score on a much different scale of impact for victims and/or surviving loved ones. And again sadly, their victims are overwhelmingly black.
9
Let's look at the upside....a corrupt banker was going to kill himself. I mean, our legal system won't do anything to stop the crooks but at least this guy was going to do something that was close to a form of justice.
10
but when we start comparing .violent criminals with war criminals..but then we don't have war criminals in the us or rather, not many convicted ones...so...
12
If blacks only commited black on black crime I'd be happy to turn them all loose. Let them create that urban slum of the future that Chuckie dreams of. Let them rob, rape, and murder each other. Just put a fence around Rainier Valley and leave the rest of us alone. (And if Chuckie and his hip-hop crew want to blame whites for everything that they've ever done to themselves, knock yourselves out. No skin off my nose.)
13
@12 being a predictable racist still isn't all that edgy Mr. nightmare. Please, live up to your name. Right now, you're just a one note snooze-fest of lame trolling.
14
@4 The best way to refute someone is to state how they are wrong using something called facts. Calling someone a douche is that you apparently do when someone is right but are frusterated that they interrupted your delusion with something called reality.
15
Racist pricks. That includes you, Charles. It's dumb racist bullshit when pricks like Andrew or Stranger'sWorstNightmare go off about whatever their 2 minutes of hate told them to this week. It's the same dumb racist bullshit when you pull the "ooh, look at the white guy committing crime, shocking that a white banker would do this."
The internet assplodes when Dan read a card that had the word "shemale" and explained his position. The internet assplodes when Sex+ writer Laci Green uses the word "tranny" and then apologized for being insenstive. Yet here you walk in thinking it's cool beans to be a racist prick, because the target of your racism is white people.
Fuck that noise. Racism is racism regardless of if it's against whites, blacks, browns, yellows, reds, or the colloidal silver drinking blues. You're no better than the very people you wish to criticize.
The internet assplodes when Dan read a card that had the word "shemale" and explained his position. The internet assplodes when Sex+ writer Laci Green uses the word "tranny" and then apologized for being insenstive. Yet here you walk in thinking it's cool beans to be a racist prick, because the target of your racism is white people.
Fuck that noise. Racism is racism regardless of if it's against whites, blacks, browns, yellows, reds, or the colloidal silver drinking blues. You're no better than the very people you wish to criticize.
19
Good Evening Charles,
I agree with some of what you say. This fellow probably knew he'd be held accountable. Hence, his despair. These jerks should be held accountable as well:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/07/13/b…
However, you mentioned "black thieves". You have a point. I don't demonize them. There is disproportionate sentencing. But, how can one conclude that these inmates are necessarily doing "hard time" for just "property crimes" (thievery etc.)? Might there be some other crime or crimes? I draw a line at violent criminals whatever their race. That simply is unacceptable. Hard time is just punishment. I just think many are serving time for more than just property crimes. I, too remain baffled and saddened at the extraordinarily high rate of incarceration of young black males in the USA. Even in the age of Obama.
Yes, this white man committed a preposterous crime for an extended time. What he did was comparable to the collective that you mention. Like you say "do the research.".
I'm not into demonizing any criminal per se. But the likes of Stalin, Hitler, Zedong, Bokassa etc. deserve demonizing.
I agree with some of what you say. This fellow probably knew he'd be held accountable. Hence, his despair. These jerks should be held accountable as well:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/07/13/b…
However, you mentioned "black thieves". You have a point. I don't demonize them. There is disproportionate sentencing. But, how can one conclude that these inmates are necessarily doing "hard time" for just "property crimes" (thievery etc.)? Might there be some other crime or crimes? I draw a line at violent criminals whatever their race. That simply is unacceptable. Hard time is just punishment. I just think many are serving time for more than just property crimes. I, too remain baffled and saddened at the extraordinarily high rate of incarceration of young black males in the USA. Even in the age of Obama.
Yes, this white man committed a preposterous crime for an extended time. What he did was comparable to the collective that you mention. Like you say "do the research.".
I'm not into demonizing any criminal per se. But the likes of Stalin, Hitler, Zedong, Bokassa etc. deserve demonizing.
20
@16 - Not dead. If you had followed the link you would have learned that he was not successful in his suicide attempt (in which he left a note confessing to the crime, d'oh), and has since been arrested.
21
@16: He's not dead. The tube from the exhaust to the window method doesn't really work as well as most people think. Catalytic converters remove too much carbon monoxide, and the physiological effects of carbon dioxide poisoning and other exhaust products are distressing enough that people give up on this method before they are asphyxiated.
22
He reminds me Odo from Deep Space Nine (René Auberjonois).
Anyway, if I had to choose, I'd rather have my
money stolen by an anonymous white collar criminal than an armed street thug, regardless of either's race. At least with the former I'm not likely to suffer bodily harm.
Anyway, if I had to choose, I'd rather have my
money stolen by an anonymous white collar criminal than an armed street thug, regardless of either's race. At least with the former I'm not likely to suffer bodily harm.
23
Is anyone else reminded Price (of Sterling, Cooper, Draper, Price) and the Jaguar debacle from last season's Mad Men?
25
"gone with the wind" Mr. Mudede? No energy is ever destroyed. If it's dissipated, then to whom? [prompt]
26
Aww...look at all the white guilt Chuckie has stirred up. I think I'll go read a Dan Savage post so I can experience some heterosexual 'guilt'.
29
The stronger argument, Charles, is that the majority of black men in America's prisons are there for drug crimes. Drug dealers don't get arrested for defrauding their customers, they get shot for it. To wit, black men are being busted for completing mostly honest business transactions (cutting product notwithstanding, SOP), and white men get busted for dishonest business dealings. There's your inequality.
30
@28 agree. The pinky ring is the real punishable crime here. Making him work at a bank is the punishment
31
Blacks who kill (mainly) blacks shouldn't go to jail. Let them stay in da hood, they're doing us a favor.
32
@29 I think you need to also look at the proportionality of drugs vs. financial crime. People can serve years for as little as 100 dollars of economic impact in the black market via drugs, whereas defrauding or even shoplifting 100 dollars would get you a day or two.
This imbalance becomes even more noticeable once you get to white collar crimes worth tens of thousands compared to the sentences handed to people for getting busted for tens of thousands worth of drugs.
This imbalance becomes even more noticeable once you get to white collar crimes worth tens of thousands compared to the sentences handed to people for getting busted for tens of thousands worth of drugs.
34
@33 I don't really want to waste my time with someone who can't show enough respect to register. But I was talking about economic impact.
If you want to have this conservation, you'll have to play the game.
If you want to have this conservation, you'll have to play the game.
35
@15 "Racism is racism regardless of if it's against whites, blacks, browns, yellows, reds,..."
But when racism is institutionalized as it is in this country, it is much more devastating. Slavery was justified by dehumanization of blacks. That posture has never been cured due to denial of the powers that be and the ignorance perpetuated by our educational system.
But when racism is institutionalized as it is in this country, it is much more devastating. Slavery was justified by dehumanization of blacks. That posture has never been cured due to denial of the powers that be and the ignorance perpetuated by our educational system.
36
America is a great and fair country.
Great stuff, whatever you're on --- Oh wait. . . sarcasm, I get it!
On the serious side, this super-crook stooge was also:
He serves on the FCM Advisory Committee of the National Futures Association.
from this link (they've quickly removed his name from the NFA web site, can't ever imagine why?),
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/futures-br…
Clearly, a futures guy, and especially a futures super-crook, should not have been sitting on that committee.
Everything is corrupt and crooked in Amerika!
Great stuff, whatever you're on --- Oh wait. . . sarcasm, I get it!
On the serious side, this super-crook stooge was also:
He serves on the FCM Advisory Committee of the National Futures Association.
from this link (they've quickly removed his name from the NFA web site, can't ever imagine why?),
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/futures-br…
Clearly, a futures guy, and especially a futures super-crook, should not have been sitting on that committee.
Everything is corrupt and crooked in Amerika!
37
@32, CbytheSea,
"People can serve years for as little as 100 dollars of economic impact in the black market via drugs, whereas defrauding or even shoplifting 100 dollars would get you a day or two."
Either you don't quite get it yet, or you're joshing us?
They coppers in SeaTown just busted yet another Honduran drug ring, which the conservatives love to rag on as illegals -- but there's a far more educative string of concrete coincidences going back a long, long time.
Namely, whatever country America either finances the overthrow of their democratically-elected government (as recently by the Obama administration regarding Honduras, and first set in motion by the Millennium Challenge Corporation, chaired then by one Hillary Clinton and co-chaired by Timothy Geithner --- anyone recognize those names, perhaps???), or invades, then we invariably find a steady stream of drugs from?
Now why ever could that be?
Cocaine processing drops in Panama, Bush #1 invades, and cocaine processing not only returns to normal processing rate, but even climbs higher?
Destabilization of the once secular government in Afghanistan, beginning with the Carter administration and continued in Reagan's,
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BR…
ensured more drugs to Europe and eventually America, etc.
Seems to fit a pattern, so it perversely makes sense that the top crimes would be those who use their product, now wouldn't???
Fave web site of the week:
http://privacysos.org/blog
"People can serve years for as little as 100 dollars of economic impact in the black market via drugs, whereas defrauding or even shoplifting 100 dollars would get you a day or two."
Either you don't quite get it yet, or you're joshing us?
They coppers in SeaTown just busted yet another Honduran drug ring, which the conservatives love to rag on as illegals -- but there's a far more educative string of concrete coincidences going back a long, long time.
Namely, whatever country America either finances the overthrow of their democratically-elected government (as recently by the Obama administration regarding Honduras, and first set in motion by the Millennium Challenge Corporation, chaired then by one Hillary Clinton and co-chaired by Timothy Geithner --- anyone recognize those names, perhaps???), or invades, then we invariably find a steady stream of drugs from?
Now why ever could that be?
Cocaine processing drops in Panama, Bush #1 invades, and cocaine processing not only returns to normal processing rate, but even climbs higher?
Destabilization of the once secular government in Afghanistan, beginning with the Carter administration and continued in Reagan's,
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BR…
ensured more drugs to Europe and eventually America, etc.
Seems to fit a pattern, so it perversely makes sense that the top crimes would be those who use their product, now wouldn't???
Fave web site of the week:
http://privacysos.org/blog
39
@29 -- "the majority of black men in America's prisons are there for drug crimes"
Sorry, not true. Not even nearly almost true.
The rest of your argument's no good either, for reasons I won't belabor in detail because - like Mudede's post - it's premise isn't even nearly almost sorta true.
Sorry, not true. Not even nearly almost true.
The rest of your argument's no good either, for reasons I won't belabor in detail because - like Mudede's post - it's premise isn't even nearly almost sorta true.
40
@27: No, you provide a good baseline for comparative analysis of idiocy.
@35: Yes, institutionalized racism is bad, a terrible thing. That does not and cannot justify other forms of non-institutionalized racism. "You hit me for no reason, that's bad. Yeah, well, a lot of other people systematically bully and hit other people for no reason, so compared to that, what I did isn't bad." Doesn't work.
@38: to be a troll and get page hits?
@35: Yes, institutionalized racism is bad, a terrible thing. That does not and cannot justify other forms of non-institutionalized racism. "You hit me for no reason, that's bad. Yeah, well, a lot of other people systematically bully and hit other people for no reason, so compared to that, what I did isn't bad." Doesn't work.
@38: to be a troll and get page hits?
41
"And, at the end of the day, no will demonize this man's appearance or the color of his skin."
You just did Charles.
You just did Charles.
42
Good Lord, people, I've seen Charles troll hard and haul in veritable nets full of takers. But his meaning here isn't all that abstruse.
Young black guy mugs someone for $60, and a lot of people start saying all kinds of racist stuff (just run through this thread for examples). They blame the crime on the guy's race--"gotta watch out for those blacks, they're just a bunch of criminals". If he's caught, he'll go to jail for a long time.
Middle age white guy steals *millions*, and no one blames the crime on his race; no one says, you can't trust those white guys. Any prison time he serves won't be close to the sum of the sentences of muggers and thieves whose takes from their crimes won't be close to what the white guy stole. And the white guy will likely do his time in a much more pleasant environment.
Young black guy mugs someone for $60, and a lot of people start saying all kinds of racist stuff (just run through this thread for examples). They blame the crime on the guy's race--"gotta watch out for those blacks, they're just a bunch of criminals". If he's caught, he'll go to jail for a long time.
Middle age white guy steals *millions*, and no one blames the crime on his race; no one says, you can't trust those white guys. Any prison time he serves won't be close to the sum of the sentences of muggers and thieves whose takes from their crimes won't be close to what the white guy stole. And the white guy will likely do his time in a much more pleasant environment.
43
@42: Right. That's how I read it.
@8, Ron K. wrote, "Sadly, the majority of "hard time" black inmates are in not for property crimes, but for crimes of violence"
@29, Sir Vic wrote, "majority of black men in America's prisons are there for drug crimes."
@39, Ron K. quoted Sir Vic, then responded, "Sorry, not true. Not even nearly almost true."
I thought it was common knowledge that most people in prison these days are there for prohibition violations. Ron, I think you're mistaken.
In 2004, 55% of federal prisoners were there for violation of drug prohibition. The portion has almost certainly increased.
NAACP reports:
@8, Ron K. wrote, "Sadly, the majority of "hard time" black inmates are in not for property crimes, but for crimes of violence"
@29, Sir Vic wrote, "majority of black men in America's prisons are there for drug crimes."
@39, Ron K. quoted Sir Vic, then responded, "Sorry, not true. Not even nearly almost true."
I thought it was common knowledge that most people in prison these days are there for prohibition violations. Ron, I think you're mistaken.
In 2004, 55% of federal prisoners were there for violation of drug prohibition. The portion has almost certainly increased.
NAACP reports:
Drug Sentencing Disparities
- About 14 million Whites and 2.6 million African Americans report using an illicit drug
- 5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites
- African Americans represent 12% of the total population of drug users, but 38% of those arrested for drug offenses, and 59% of those in state prison for a drug offense.
- African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months). (Sentencing Project)
44
@43 -- Finally somebody willing to do research and use facts in arguments ... even if he's not very good at it.
From your source (which is 2002/2003/2004 data), drug offenders in prison were 86,972 federal plus 265,000 (est'd) state inmates, out of 158,426 plus 1,237,500(est'd), or 25.2%.
Note, incarcerations for drug violations have declined steadily over the past decade under sentencing reforms.
Note re @29, under 2010 sentencing reforms, you have to get caught holding about $5000 worth of crack to earn the 5 year federal mandatory minimum (though a few states still have wacked-out penalty scales).
Note re the title of Mudede's post, the Peregrine scandal does not involve banking.
From your source (which is 2002/2003/2004 data), drug offenders in prison were 86,972 federal plus 265,000 (est'd) state inmates, out of 158,426 plus 1,237,500(est'd), or 25.2%.
Note, incarcerations for drug violations have declined steadily over the past decade under sentencing reforms.
Note re @29, under 2010 sentencing reforms, you have to get caught holding about $5000 worth of crack to earn the 5 year federal mandatory minimum (though a few states still have wacked-out penalty scales).
Note re the title of Mudede's post, the Peregrine scandal does not involve banking.
45
A drop in the bucket compared to the libor scandal. Pay close attention to how that is going to unravel.
46
Charles: the most unfortunate of Sloggers. For all the goofy things he says, he still gets the most shit on those occasions when he is perfectly lucid and correct.
Case in point.
Case in point.
47
Charles,
This is the first one of your posts that I've read that I have to give two thumbs up. Very true. It's called White privilege.
This is the first one of your posts that I've read that I have to give two thumbs up. Very true. It's called White privilege.
48
@46, @47 -- What part is "correct" and "true"? Peregrine ripped off about $20 million a year. The 78,200 blacks in state pens for non-fraud property crimes at the end of 2009 collectively accounted for about $3.4 billion a year.
[We exclude 10,300 blacks in state prison for fraud because as Mr. Mudede apparently assumes, black people don't commit fraud any more than white people commit theft - or do they?]
Now suppose Mudede's "If anyone does the research ... I'm sure you will find" leap of faith had actually been correct ... how about the "lucid" part?
Would justice be served if we sentenced Peregrine's CEO to 100,000 life terms instead of the one he'll get? Or distributed free passes to 450 garden-variety property criminals (the rough equivalent to Peregrine in terms of annual loss)? What's the lucid vision of justice? Where's the IDEA underneath Mudede's verbal eruption? (I would suggest there ain't none, but maybe somebody can dig one out and hold it up to the light of day.)
[We exclude 10,300 blacks in state prison for fraud because as Mr. Mudede apparently assumes, black people don't commit fraud any more than white people commit theft - or do they?]
Now suppose Mudede's "If anyone does the research ... I'm sure you will find" leap of faith had actually been correct ... how about the "lucid" part?
Would justice be served if we sentenced Peregrine's CEO to 100,000 life terms instead of the one he'll get? Or distributed free passes to 450 garden-variety property criminals (the rough equivalent to Peregrine in terms of annual loss)? What's the lucid vision of justice? Where's the IDEA underneath Mudede's verbal eruption? (I would suggest there ain't none, but maybe somebody can dig one out and hold it up to the light of day.)
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