Monday, February 13, 2012
Death Because Guns Make Us Safer
Posted by Goldy on Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 1:18 PM
Pastor's daughter Hannah Grace Kelley, 20, is in critical condition, after being accidentally shot in the back of the head at her father's St. Petersburg, Florida church.
Tragic. As is this accidents-will-happen attitude:
The Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office told WTSP that church member Moises Zambrana, who works as a security guard, was in a closet showing two other men the safety features on his 9mm handgun. Although Zambrana had removed the clip, he had failed to remove the round in the chamber. The gun went off and fired through a wall, striking Hannah Kelley in the back of the head.
“There’s a little concerned that, you know, it happened, but it was accidental,” church member Tony Diehl said. “I mean, nobody was intended — nobody came to shoot anybody. It just happened.”
Police say Zambrana had a permit to carry the weapon, and did not apparently break any laws. No charges have been filed.
Again, I'm not disputing that you have a constitutional right to carry a handgun into a church. That's how the current Supreme Court interprets the 2nd Amendment, so that's currently the law of the land. I'm just suggesting that for the safety of yourself and those around you, you might not want to.
2
If there were a gun that shot intelligence and common sense into people, I'd empty the clip into that guy. Unfortunately, nothing like that exists, so we're just going to be stuck with stupid, irresponsible people doing stupid, irresponsible things that end up maiming or killing others. If guns weren't around, people would just pick on the next highest killing instrument on the list.
3
I think the 2nd Amendment is as antiquated as the 3rd. I'm for gun rights because I generally prefer personal responsibility over government prohibition. And it's for that reason that this guy should have been charged. Create a law if necessary and prevent him from working with firearms professionally ever again. You can't have a dangerous item be legal because you're placing responsibility into the hands of citizens and then completely shrug off accidents. Wouldn't he have been charged if he accidentally hit that girl with his car?
4
Thank goodness that young man was carrying a gun to protect the Pastor's daughter from rapists, burglars & thugs, right? Such things are so common in church these days.
6
If guns made people safer, Justice Bryer and his wife would both be dead now.
Corporations aren't People either. It's just a Legal Fiction. Legal Fictions don't get drafted, rot in jail, or executed in Texas for Driving While Black.
Corporations aren't People either. It's just a Legal Fiction. Legal Fictions don't get drafted, rot in jail, or executed in Texas for Driving While Black.
8
@3: I'm not sure it makes moral or pragmatic sense to punish people who kill someone through an honest mistake, unless of course there was deliberately risky behavior (e.g., getting drunk before getting behind the wheel.)
When it comes to gun accidents, I'm more inclined to just let the gun-fetishists go ahead and accidentally shoot themselves, their loved ones, their acquaintances, and their hunting buddies. As someone who doesn't roll with gun people, this ain't my problem.
When it comes to gun accidents, I'm more inclined to just let the gun-fetishists go ahead and accidentally shoot themselves, their loved ones, their acquaintances, and their hunting buddies. As someone who doesn't roll with gun people, this ain't my problem.
9
But how will they feel like big, strong Christian men without their guns in church?
Growing up we did have a guy who wore his gun in church every week. He was kind of a sad sack individual, and my grandmother worried that his children were malnourished. I don't know exactly where I'm going with this except to say that if you feel compelled to be armed in your place of worship, odd personal issues can't be far behind.
Growing up we did have a guy who wore his gun in church every week. He was kind of a sad sack individual, and my grandmother worried that his children were malnourished. I don't know exactly where I'm going with this except to say that if you feel compelled to be armed in your place of worship, odd personal issues can't be far behind.
10
@6, Justice Bryer, eh? Your personality disintegration proceeds apace.
@2, If that guy had "the next highest killing instrument on the list", the girl would not have a hole in her head. It's pretty hard to throw a knife through a wall. You're missing the point, which is that gun fondling and gun ownership are key indicators of this stupidity you mention.
@2, If that guy had "the next highest killing instrument on the list", the girl would not have a hole in her head. It's pretty hard to throw a knife through a wall. You're missing the point, which is that gun fondling and gun ownership are key indicators of this stupidity you mention.
12
@8 - There's a set of laws specifically for punishing people that kill through an honest mistake: involuntary manslaughter. There should be lesser charges for causing injury. Maybe I'd agree with you if the gun malfunctioned. But he left a chamber in the clip, didn't properly use the safety and pulled the trigger all by himself: totally responsible, just not intentional.
13
Somewhere between the sticky floor and the cracks in the ceiling; cuddling my semi-automatic - what a very fuzzy feeling.....
14
Lumpmoose @12: In Jeebusland this is like killing somebody with your car who jumps out between parked cars on a dark and stormy night. It's just an unfortunate accident, part of life in their world.
16
@12 so true, I couldn't agree with you more.
If we were going to ban something and make people safer we could do much worse than ban the personally owned automobile. Many more people are killed by honest mistakes behind the wheel than behind the gun-sight.
If we were going to ban something and make people safer we could do much worse than ban the personally owned automobile. Many more people are killed by honest mistakes behind the wheel than behind the gun-sight.
17
@10 maybe if you read the news you'd know that the West Indies they use machetes instead of guns. Just ask the Justice. Hint, it's been out for a few hours, oh wiki master.
It's not that hard to throw a knife through a wall. Depends on the knife, practice, and how thick the wall is. Tar paper shacks are fairly easy, single plat plaster is not too difficult if you throw right, and it's only US type thick construction that is hard. Some interior non-load non-cabled non-plumbed walls are fairly thin.
@15 for the Safe Gun Is A Checked Gun. Remember to check the barrel too in open breach mode. Rocks and gunk in there can be ... bad.
It's not that hard to throw a knife through a wall. Depends on the knife, practice, and how thick the wall is. Tar paper shacks are fairly easy, single plat plaster is not too difficult if you throw right, and it's only US type thick construction that is hard. Some interior non-load non-cabled non-plumbed walls are fairly thin.
@15 for the Safe Gun Is A Checked Gun. Remember to check the barrel too in open breach mode. Rocks and gunk in there can be ... bad.
18
"Police say Zambrana had a permit to carry the weapon, and did not apparently break any laws. No charges have been filed."
I'm no lawyer, but last I heard killing somebody unintentionally is still a crime. It's called manslaughter. It's what you would be charged with if you killed someone by accident while driving your car. Do gun nuts somehow get immunity to the manslaughter laws?
"Police say Zambrana had a permit to carry the weapon, and did not apparently break any laws. No charges have been filed."
I'm no lawyer, but last I heard killing somebody unintentionally is still a crime. It's called manslaughter. It's what you would be charged with if you killed someone by accident while driving your car. Do gun nuts somehow get immunity to the manslaughter laws?
19
@3,
If he killed her with his car, he might get a ticket. But vehicular manslaughter cases where alcohol isn't involved are exceedingly rare.
I definitely agree that he should never again be allowed to work as a security guard. There are enough morons working in that profession as it is.
If he killed her with his car, he might get a ticket. But vehicular manslaughter cases where alcohol isn't involved are exceedingly rare.
I definitely agree that he should never again be allowed to work as a security guard. There are enough morons working in that profession as it is.
21
@3 @18
Using the Car analogy totally fails, its been proven over and over that despite the fact driving is not a constitutional privilege, you can indeed *accidentally* kill people with a car without penalty. it happens all the time.
The local example was when rabbi Ephraim Schwartz struck and killed Seattle pedestrian Tatsuo Nakata who was crossing a street in a crosswalk.
"car nuts" get immunity due to community standards that enable police to scoff at charging reckless dangerous drivers all the time.
Using the Car analogy totally fails, its been proven over and over that despite the fact driving is not a constitutional privilege, you can indeed *accidentally* kill people with a car without penalty. it happens all the time.
The local example was when rabbi Ephraim Schwartz struck and killed Seattle pedestrian Tatsuo Nakata who was crossing a street in a crosswalk.
"car nuts" get immunity due to community standards that enable police to scoff at charging reckless dangerous drivers all the time.
24
@14:
If we're going to use the car analogy, I'd have to say this is more akin to running over your kid because you failed to check your blind-spot when you backed out of the driveway.
The victim here didn't do ANYTHING to imperil themselves, aside from merely being in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone else did something incredibly stupid with a dangerous object.
If we're going to use the car analogy, I'd have to say this is more akin to running over your kid because you failed to check your blind-spot when you backed out of the driveway.
The victim here didn't do ANYTHING to imperil themselves, aside from merely being in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone else did something incredibly stupid with a dangerous object.
25
God certainly works wonders in mysterious ways.... God don't like guns in church or God don't like this young woman...;-S
26
I dunno--maybe it was God's Will that she take one to the head? I don't know much about her, but His Ways Are Mysterious.
28
@17, which Justice is that, Will? You said something about a Justice Bryer, but there is no such person. Perhaps you meant "Breyer"? Not sure what a machete in the West Indies has to do with a girl with a bullet in her head in church (to say nothing of your synapse-fart over "Corporations Are Not People", but nothing about your thought processes makes sense.
You couldn't throw a knife through an open window, nimrod. O Voudou Master, O Ninja, O Warrior Genius. It is hilarious to watch you try to express ideas and concepts on the fly. You're such a piece of shit.
Add "tar paper shack" to the list of words and expressions you don't know the meaning of. Hint: NOT JUST PAPER.
You couldn't throw a knife through an open window, nimrod. O Voudou Master, O Ninja, O Warrior Genius. It is hilarious to watch you try to express ideas and concepts on the fly. You're such a piece of shit.
Add "tar paper shack" to the list of words and expressions you don't know the meaning of. Hint: NOT JUST PAPER.
29
How American of you, Fnarf.
Not everyone has modern homes built since the code revisions of the late 80s. In fact, some of us literally have lived - or live - in the boundries of the USA - in places where the walls are literally tar paper - or teepees - or treehouses. The world is far more complex than your simple wiki version pretends it is.
Bryer - sorry, auto correct does that sometimes. Now, go enlist.
Not everyone has modern homes built since the code revisions of the late 80s. In fact, some of us literally have lived - or live - in the boundries of the USA - in places where the walls are literally tar paper - or teepees - or treehouses. The world is far more complex than your simple wiki version pretends it is.
Bryer - sorry, auto correct does that sometimes. Now, go enlist.
30
Interesting advertisement at the bottom. "Front Sight Firearms Training Institute"
If she survives I hope she isn't the type who will forgive the idiot who shot her. I know I wouldn't, nor would I forgive those who allowed guns in the church in the first place.
If she survives I hope she isn't the type who will forgive the idiot who shot her. I know I wouldn't, nor would I forgive those who allowed guns in the church in the first place.
32
The guard made a stupid mistake that anyone with any training at all should have known better than - in fact, he violated multiple of the four rules of shooting - The gun is always loaded and Always know your target AND what's behind it. This is a tragic incident, but to stereotype all gun owners (or even all gun carriers) based on it is incorrect.
33
@9, neither you nor anyone else has "Bryer" in your autocorrect. And you were typing into Slog comments, remember, which means you wouldn't have been using autocorrect; you would have been using your browser's spellcheck, which, when it failed to recognize Breyer, would have suggested "Beyer", "Greyer", and "Brewer", not "Bryer".
That's the thing about you; you can't stop yourself from lying even when you have nothing to gain from it; lying is compulsive with you. You're psycho.
"Code revisions of the late 80s", eh? That's another one. A completely made-up out of whole, er, tar paper LIE. Houses in the US are not made significantly differently today than they were in the 70s, say. Some modest changes in the requirements for CFCI outlets and whatnot, but certainly not in the construction of walls out of paper.
You're simply wrong. Tar paper shacks were never literally made of just tar paper. They were FINISHED with tar paper, over boards, the tar paper that would normally have been a weatherizing barrier under a more permanent outside covering in a richer person's home. I've been in a tar-paper shack; you haven't. You don't know what you're talking about.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TAR PAPER SHACKS ARE, full stop, and yet you continue to make up compete bullshit about "the boundries [sic] of the USA". Teepees, for God's sake. SHUT THE FUCK UP, WILL.
The idea that you could throw a knife through a solid board wall, which is what you're suggesting here, you of all people, is not only completely idiotic; it's irrelevant. The shooter in this case wasn't outside; he was in the next room. You couldn't throw a knife through even the shoddiest interior wall, but you can't help yourself from this discursion into total feeble-minded fantasy even though it has absolutely nothing to do with anything except your pathological craving for unearned respect, respect given to the display of knowledge that you know perfectly well you will never, can never possess. Why else would you inject your stupid anti-facts into discussions like this, to which they would STILL BE POINTLESS AND ANNOYING even if they were true, which they never ever are?
You are poison to this community, Will. You have never contributed to it. No one has ever laughed at one of your jokes or been enlightened by one of your irrational statements or even felt a touch of community feeling from you. Because you don't have it; all you have is this endless bleating car alarm of mendacious garbage and nonsense, by which you, incredibly, believe you are "changing the world" and bringing glory to yourself. You are not. You are covered in shit, and you put it there.
The complexity of the world is not a subject you should be talking about, Will. You are as simple-minded a person as has ever existed. That's not "wiki" (is there a flabbier insult in your arsenal?), that's the truth. You have seen nothing and understood nothing in this world in your fifty-plus years; EVERYTHING you believe, or claim to believe, is a complete lie. Your face is a lie. Your fat ass waddling down the street is a lie. Your soul is a goddamned lie.
More...
That's the thing about you; you can't stop yourself from lying even when you have nothing to gain from it; lying is compulsive with you. You're psycho.
"Code revisions of the late 80s", eh? That's another one. A completely made-up out of whole, er, tar paper LIE. Houses in the US are not made significantly differently today than they were in the 70s, say. Some modest changes in the requirements for CFCI outlets and whatnot, but certainly not in the construction of walls out of paper.
You're simply wrong. Tar paper shacks were never literally made of just tar paper. They were FINISHED with tar paper, over boards, the tar paper that would normally have been a weatherizing barrier under a more permanent outside covering in a richer person's home. I've been in a tar-paper shack; you haven't. You don't know what you're talking about.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TAR PAPER SHACKS ARE, full stop, and yet you continue to make up compete bullshit about "the boundries [sic] of the USA". Teepees, for God's sake. SHUT THE FUCK UP, WILL.
The idea that you could throw a knife through a solid board wall, which is what you're suggesting here, you of all people, is not only completely idiotic; it's irrelevant. The shooter in this case wasn't outside; he was in the next room. You couldn't throw a knife through even the shoddiest interior wall, but you can't help yourself from this discursion into total feeble-minded fantasy even though it has absolutely nothing to do with anything except your pathological craving for unearned respect, respect given to the display of knowledge that you know perfectly well you will never, can never possess. Why else would you inject your stupid anti-facts into discussions like this, to which they would STILL BE POINTLESS AND ANNOYING even if they were true, which they never ever are?
You are poison to this community, Will. You have never contributed to it. No one has ever laughed at one of your jokes or been enlightened by one of your irrational statements or even felt a touch of community feeling from you. Because you don't have it; all you have is this endless bleating car alarm of mendacious garbage and nonsense, by which you, incredibly, believe you are "changing the world" and bringing glory to yourself. You are not. You are covered in shit, and you put it there.
The complexity of the world is not a subject you should be talking about, Will. You are as simple-minded a person as has ever existed. That's not "wiki" (is there a flabbier insult in your arsenal?), that's the truth. You have seen nothing and understood nothing in this world in your fifty-plus years; EVERYTHING you believe, or claim to believe, is a complete lie. Your face is a lie. Your fat ass waddling down the street is a lie. Your soul is a goddamned lie.
34
if i could take a pill that would make me take guns to church, an i refused to take it, would that make me more christian, or less christian?
35
@8 Solid argument; what good is putting that guy in prison really going to do for anyone.
@15 Agreed.
Maybe gun owners should have to carry some kind of gun owner liability insurance. He should be responsible for the medical bills. An gun insurance mandate that worked like car insurance where the owners policy was adjusted based on number and type of owned guns would put a financial incentive on not owning guns and more specifically not owning lots of very dangerous guns.
@15 Agreed.
Maybe gun owners should have to carry some kind of gun owner liability insurance. He should be responsible for the medical bills. An gun insurance mandate that worked like car insurance where the owners policy was adjusted based on number and type of owned guns would put a financial incentive on not owning guns and more specifically not owning lots of very dangerous guns.
37
How fucking retarded do you have to be to not check the chamber of a gun, especially if you just took the clip out? It's against the most basic gun safety rules. Criminially negligent. He should sit in a cell with just himself, his ignorance, and his guilt for ruining the life of an innocent bystander.
39
At least every single month in this country, a person that is in the comfort of their home is confronted by an intruder with a weapon, and the intention of doing harm against the resident, and every month, there are stories about people that would've been raped or killed or maimed if they hadn't had a firearm to kill or wound the attacker...
Cars kill many many many many more people than guns do in this country. My suggestion is that your family would be safer if they replaced their car with a gun..
Anyone whom owns a weapon needs to be trained appropriately by an expert, and needs to be retrained with regularity, and they need to practice. I practice at the range about once a week with my sidearm, usually between 100-200 rounds, and less often with my 12 gauge shotgun. Additionally, I conduct drills in my home to move around my home with one of my weapons to get the angles of the corners and hallways and such, and with this kind of training, comes safety. Guns are like sex, it's not about "safe sex" or "no guns", it's about "safer sex" or "gun safety".
Nothing is safe, not your sweeten low, not your car, not your booze (I'm looking at you Stranger...), not welding, not rock climbing, and most certainly not scuba diving, and 80% of the aforementioned things kill more people than guns in this country. I grew up with a gun in in the home, my father taught me to shoot when I was 8 y/o, and I know many people that grew up around firearms, and none of them have ever had an accident. Guns are dangerous, yes, but so is everything else, and frankly, guns are very low on the list of things that kill... And it goes without saying that criminals don't care if guns are illegal, only law abiding concealed permit holding people like myself care about laws and penalties, the bad guys do not care, and they will have guns regardless.
Following from: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
* During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.[37]
* Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.[53]
* Since the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law, the Florida murder rate has averaged 36% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 15% lower.[108]
* Since the outset of the Texas right-to-carry law, the Texas murder rate has averaged 30% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 28% lower.[115]
* Since the outset of the Michigan right-to-carry law, the Michigan murder rate has averaged 4% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 2% lower.[119]
* In 2007, there were 613 fatal firearm accidents in the United States, constituting 0.5% of 123,706 fatal accidents that year.[120]
* In 2007, there were roughly 15,698 emergency room visits for non-fatal firearm accidents,[123] constituting 0.05% of 27.7 million emergency room visits for non-fatal accidents that year.[124]
* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[130]
* According to the CDC, there were about 18,498 gun-related accidents that resulted in death or an emergency room visit during 2001[131] (the earliest year such data is available from the CDC[132]). This is roughly 27 times lower than the CDC's 1994 estimate for the number of times Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes.[133]
* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]
• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]
My argument against gun regulation:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoo…
http://www.kfor.com/news/kfor-blanchard-…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC7vORMal…
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Edmon…
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/th…
http://today.seattletimes.com/2012/01/ho…
More...
Cars kill many many many many more people than guns do in this country. My suggestion is that your family would be safer if they replaced their car with a gun..
Anyone whom owns a weapon needs to be trained appropriately by an expert, and needs to be retrained with regularity, and they need to practice. I practice at the range about once a week with my sidearm, usually between 100-200 rounds, and less often with my 12 gauge shotgun. Additionally, I conduct drills in my home to move around my home with one of my weapons to get the angles of the corners and hallways and such, and with this kind of training, comes safety. Guns are like sex, it's not about "safe sex" or "no guns", it's about "safer sex" or "gun safety".
Nothing is safe, not your sweeten low, not your car, not your booze (I'm looking at you Stranger...), not welding, not rock climbing, and most certainly not scuba diving, and 80% of the aforementioned things kill more people than guns in this country. I grew up with a gun in in the home, my father taught me to shoot when I was 8 y/o, and I know many people that grew up around firearms, and none of them have ever had an accident. Guns are dangerous, yes, but so is everything else, and frankly, guns are very low on the list of things that kill... And it goes without saying that criminals don't care if guns are illegal, only law abiding concealed permit holding people like myself care about laws and penalties, the bad guys do not care, and they will have guns regardless.
Following from: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
* During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.[37]
* Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.[53]
* Since the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law, the Florida murder rate has averaged 36% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 15% lower.[108]
* Since the outset of the Texas right-to-carry law, the Texas murder rate has averaged 30% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 28% lower.[115]
* Since the outset of the Michigan right-to-carry law, the Michigan murder rate has averaged 4% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 2% lower.[119]
* In 2007, there were 613 fatal firearm accidents in the United States, constituting 0.5% of 123,706 fatal accidents that year.[120]
* In 2007, there were roughly 15,698 emergency room visits for non-fatal firearm accidents,[123] constituting 0.05% of 27.7 million emergency room visits for non-fatal accidents that year.[124]
* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[130]
* According to the CDC, there were about 18,498 gun-related accidents that resulted in death or an emergency room visit during 2001[131] (the earliest year such data is available from the CDC[132]). This is roughly 27 times lower than the CDC's 1994 estimate for the number of times Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes.[133]
* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]
• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]
My argument against gun regulation:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoo…
http://www.kfor.com/news/kfor-blanchard-…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC7vORMal…
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Edmon…
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/th…
http://today.seattletimes.com/2012/01/ho…
41
@38, thank you. My heart is doing just fine, by the way.
And I'll offer right here and now: Will, I will pay you one hundred US dollars in cash if you can throw a knife, any knife of your choosing, through a single sheet of gypsum wallboard, unpainted, unbraced in any way, the simplest kind of wall material imaginable, from twelve feet away. With witnesses. The knife must pass completely through the wall, not just stick through to the other side. A hundred bucks. Come on, shithead.
And I'll offer right here and now: Will, I will pay you one hundred US dollars in cash if you can throw a knife, any knife of your choosing, through a single sheet of gypsum wallboard, unpainted, unbraced in any way, the simplest kind of wall material imaginable, from twelve feet away. With witnesses. The knife must pass completely through the wall, not just stick through to the other side. A hundred bucks. Come on, shithead.
42
@40 I realized after I posted. I actually support what you were saying however, a 50 line comment section rant is always a good reason to give someone a little trouble ;)
44
PS: playing Call of Duty doesn't count. For someone who invokes this "your simple wiki version" notion so often, you seem to get all of your own ideas about how the world works from video games.
45
The guy was an idiot and didn't know how to safely handle a gun. I always check to make sure mine is unloaded before cleaning or showing it. You can't protect the world from idiots by getting rid of everything dangerous. Idiots leave the gas on in their ovens and burn their houses down, do we campaign to not use natural gas? Idiots drive cars and kill people, do we campaign people not to own a car? Idiots fall over water falls, do we campaign for no one to ever visit Yosemite? Some point you have to stop blaming the guns and start blaming the idiots. And this guy should be charged with involuntary (negligent) manslaughter.
46
If that gun didn't exist, Grace would be fine. Moises wouldn't accidentally have put his hands through the wall and strangled her, or even accidentally have fallen through the wall with a knife to her heart. Ergo...
47
Why would someone bring a gun to church? And if a really compelling reason to bring a gun to church exists (maybe the priest is getting a little too friendly?) why would that someone feel it was necessary to have show and tell time in the closet?
We have a handgun of some sort and have for the past 15 years at least, my husband has a concealed carry permit, prior to that he was in law enforcement and carried almost constantly. I don't particularly care if someone owns a gun or not. I don't care if someone carries a gun. But for fuck's sake, keep it holstered unless you have good reason to use it.
We have a handgun of some sort and have for the past 15 years at least, my husband has a concealed carry permit, prior to that he was in law enforcement and carried almost constantly. I don't particularly care if someone owns a gun or not. I don't care if someone carries a gun. But for fuck's sake, keep it holstered unless you have good reason to use it.
48
And I once again go back to my gun-totin', sportsman brother's response when I told him I was burglarized, and walked in on the burglars ransacking my house..."thank god you didn't have a gun in the house!" Yes, that was literally the first thing out of his mouth when I called and told him, after the police left, what happened. A gun in my home would have done me no good in that situation, may have ended my own life had the burglars been able to get access to it, and may have resulted in the deaths of others if it was stolen. Sure, he has lots of guns in his house...in a gun safe, with the ammunition in another safe. For the average person, being burglarized and/or walking in on a burglar is a far more likely scenario to play out than a home invasion/mugging/robbery, and having a gun in the home makes that a much more dangerous proposition. Even if I was carrying...would I shoot these kids (they were teenagers) as they were running out of my house? Could I have hit the moving targets (they were already almost around the corner of the hallway before I fully entered...I didn't know they were in my home until I entered and saw them, so I would have had to draw, aim, and fire, all while they were running away)? Should I be shooting them when they're not actively threatening my life (if not my security)? What if I missed...I live in a city, I could have easily shot through the wall into the neighbor's house, or hit a passerby in the alley they ran out into? If I shot and missed, would they turn on me? This is literally the only time I've ever felt threatened in my life, and a gun wouldn't have helped. So, I see no need. Too much risk, not enough of a reason.
50
@33: OH SNAP.
@17: Just so you know, it's a "breech", not a "breach". Unless the firearm has been ripped open or is leaping out of the water.
@17: Just so you know, it's a "breech", not a "breach". Unless the firearm has been ripped open or is leaping out of the water.
51
@39: "Move around the home with one of my weapons to get the angles of the corners and hallways and such..."
What, to shoot your relatives some day? Because statistically, they are the most likely targets of gunfire in the home.
Indeed, guns ARE like sex:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/homoero…
What, to shoot your relatives some day? Because statistically, they are the most likely targets of gunfire in the home.
Indeed, guns ARE like sex:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/homoero…
52
Since no person meant to shoot that girl in the back of the head does that make this a case where the gun killed someone, counter to the standard argument of "guns don't kill people, people do"?
53
I'm not getting into this "discussion" other than to note that this statistic:
* According to the CDC, there were about 18,498 gun-related accidents that resulted in death or an emergency room visit during 2001[131] (the earliest year such data is available from the CDC[132]). This is roughly 27 times lower than the CDC's 1994 estimate for the number of times Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes.[133]"
Seems incredibly hard to swallow (I looked at the reference; I don't get it.)
It seems to be saying that there are almost HALF A MILLION incidents a year of people using guns to frighten away intruders? Really? Something like 1400 times a day! You mean that 57 times an hour, all day long? One a minute? That seems excessive to me, but maybe I'm just lucky.
* According to the CDC, there were about 18,498 gun-related accidents that resulted in death or an emergency room visit during 2001[131] (the earliest year such data is available from the CDC[132]). This is roughly 27 times lower than the CDC's 1994 estimate for the number of times Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes.[133]"
Seems incredibly hard to swallow (I looked at the reference; I don't get it.)
It seems to be saying that there are almost HALF A MILLION incidents a year of people using guns to frighten away intruders? Really? Something like 1400 times a day! You mean that 57 times an hour, all day long? One a minute? That seems excessive to me, but maybe I'm just lucky.
54
@53, no, that's legit, and it's one of the reasons I don't pay much attention to muckraking of this sort.
55
@52- No, it's the idiot who pulled the trigger who killed the girl. Guns don't kill people, they just make it very easy to kill people.
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