Tuesday, November 24, 2009
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Serial Cheater Turns On the Tears
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Last fall I posted an ad on the Casual Encounters section of Craigslist. My galpal had gone thru with a successful hookup, I had just broken up with someone, I was lonely and horny and she suggested I try it. I received hundreds of creepy responses, and none seemed all that appealing. One guy responded very cryptically and I replied to him out of curiosity and tons of emailing back and forth ensued, and before you know it we met for dinner. We had instant chemistry and hooked up (safely of course). We started meeting regularly. Soon we were hanging out as friends and getting to know eachother on top of having sex. I would still browse the Craigslist ads for fun and I continued to see ads that were clearly his, and it sort of hurt me, but we did not have serious intentions and communicated this to eachother, so I held my tongue.A few months pass and now we are clearly dating. I figure out thru looking him up online that he has lied to me about his age and his name as well. When I asked him about it, he broke down and said he lied with everyone he hooked up with (I guess he had a summer of hooking up on CL prior to meeting me), to protect his anonymity. He didn't think he would get to know me and like me as well as he did, and he said he struggled to figure out how to tell me, but couldn't swallow his pride to do it.
Then he lied to me about a few other things, such as not telling his best friend I existed and it was clearly obvious based on what he was saying to me she was in love with him, I gave him an ultimatum that if he was serious about being with me, to tell her about me, and when he did, she got all upset because... whaddaya know... she was in love with him! Then he went to England to visit his family, and when he was there, I checked UK Craigslist and... whaddaya know... he had an ad up. I confronted him about this and said if he messes up one more time I am dumping him forever. Again, if he's serious about being with me, no more trying to hook up.
The rest of LHIH's insanely long letter—and my remarkably short response—after the jump.
I suggested we have an open relationship and he tell me about his hookups when he has them, but he instantly put the kibosh on that idea. He just didn't like it. I then found out he also was still married to his wife he immigrated to the US with! I had met her, they were friends, etc., but he did not tell me they never formally divorced. And their relationship ended because he cheated on her!So now I am dating a man 10 years older than I thought, who's married, with a different name. Who's addicted to hooking up. And I had totally fallen for him.
So now months and months and months have passed. obviously there are trust issues. I'm usually a trusting person who will give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes O check his phone when he's not around, I'm always checking CL, and when I hadn't fouund anything for a while and after we had seriously fallen in love he moved into an apartment down the street from me. My mom loves him, he said he has intentions to seriously settle down with me, we have tons of fun together, the sex is amazing, we connect really well, and the time we spend together feels just... perfect. Maybe he'd cleaned up his act, right?
Jump to a couple weeks ago. He was about to go on a work related trip to San Diego. When he wasn't in the room, I clicked on his internet history to find his adultfriendfinder profile. He was still logged in, and there was all this back and forth about potentially meeting a girl down in San Diego while he was there. Needless to say this caused me to completely flip out. I confronted him and became super pissed. He started crying because this was the end of our relationship based on my ultimatum. I told him that when I said if he screwed up again I would dump him I didn't love him like I do now. So now I'm not sure exactly what to do, but I did tell him if he really is serious about being with me he is either open with me about this hooking up stuff or he seek counseling for an sex addiction or we break up.
Although I connect with him more than maybe anyone ever, and I love him, is this relationship doomed based on how we met and how he consistantly has behaved? Do we stand any chance? Once a cheat always a cheat? The lying and the attempting to hook up with others online (heaven forbid the actual hookups) make me feel like I'm not good enough for him. He says that when he has casual sex with others he doesn't have to worry about the emotional intimacy involved, and this means he can be more intense and forceful with them. He says with me he makes love. So he wants to have his cake and eat it too I guess. Is this bullshit? I told him he can be forceful and intense with me—I like that kind of stuff!
So what, do i dump him?
Loving Him Is Hard
Yes.
UPDATE: A few more thoughts: how many times, and how many ways, does this man have to demonstrate his essential untrustworthiness before you accept that he's untrustworthy? He lied about his age, his name, and his marital status, and he's lied to you again and again about his actions. Now you have to make a choice: you can leave him for cheating or you can stop giving a shit when he cheats. If you're incapable of the latter, LHIH, then leave him already.
And if you're wondering why he doesn't want an honest open relationship, LHIH, it's could be because he doesn't want you having sex with other men. Or he could be one of those twisted freaks who prefers dishonest adulterous relationships (and their attendant thrills) to honest non-monogamous commitments (and the negotiations they require). Some men—and women—would rather cheat and sneak around than hash out an agreement with their primary partner that would 1. allow them to have sex with others but 2. make their infidelities less exciting because they're no longer forbidden.
If this is the case—if he likes to cheat for the cheating—giving him permission to cheat will ruin cheating for him. I don't think, however, that this will save your relationship. He likes cheating. He wants to cheat. If cheating doesn't bother you—if cheating is no longer a risky thrill—he'll dump you and find himself a new woman, someone he can cheat on.
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But women tend to want married guys, so she'll probably ignore it.
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"he is either open with me about this hooking up stuff or he seek counseling for an sex addiction"
Tell me about your all about sex addiction antics and it'd be ok, otherwise, see a therapist?
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It smells fabulous. And, it calls for Tennessee whiskey ( 4 Tbsp. or 60 cc (ml) of George Dickle), not bourbon. Trust me! I'm drinking the Wild Turkey 8 y.o.
The rum is going into the Pumpkin Pie.
Total bullshit. That is an epic pathetic excuse there, suitable for framing.
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Like @14 said: this guy is incorrigably untrustworthy. You cannot, I repeat, you cannot trust this man to be using condoms with these other hookups. Don't wait til he gives you a disease to DTMFA. You _have_ scheduled an appointment with your doctor to get tested, right? RIght?
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Dan, your first answer was perfect. The update was totally unnecessary. Although I completely agree of course.
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But when you think of it, they're both not being truly honest with themselves. He's denying open relationship & she's not able to just fuck the guy, hanging in limbo instead. Its a gross situation, anyway you slice it.
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My guess is this woman is 18 or 19 and this is one of her very first relationships, in which case she's just terribly naive and inexperienced. If not, then she's an idiot's idiot.
And checking browser history is human nature, erase that shit if it is private.
You will die miserable and alone.
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I've known people like you, and they always seem genuinely surprised when they end up the dump-ee in a DTMFA. Short of physical violence, there is hardly anything so despicable as disrespecting another human's personal space, especially when it's a person you've claimed to love.
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Been way too long since I had me some whiskey pecan pie.
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No, this relationship is made to be. You have one chronically cheating partner, and another who catches him red-handed, on numerous occasions, and let's him get away with it. You two are made for each other! He couldn't ask for a more perfect situation.
GREAT ANSWER. It made wading through the letter worthwhile.
(And I think on some level he wants to be caught. Probably for the drama.)
I'm with everyone else. Unless she wants to be in a dishonest adulterous relationship, she should DTMFA.
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That said, I hope she does. It'll take months of intensive $200/hour therapy before she does it, but we can hope.
Just to add a bit -- his explanation about the dichotomy between the kind of sex he has with you and the kind that he has with his hookups is a HUGE red flag to me. First of all, it tells me that this guy has major Madonna/Whore issues. Secondly, it shows that he has a view of intimacy that, in my opinion, is very skewed.
When you have a solid intimate foundation with somebody you can have whatever kind of sex you want with them. If you want to have aggressive sex you can show that side, if you want to have slow "love making" you can do that too. With intimacy comes a safety that allows one to show different sides of oneself to a partner without fear of judgment or reprisal.
If he can't bring himself to show you that side of his sexual self, then it's not because you are so deeply connected -- it's precisely the opposite.
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http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/v…
http://southernfood.about.com/od/pecanpi…
Be aware that the Pumpkin pie with rum takes longer to bake. Enjoy.
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I'm still stocking up my kitchen in the new place, so I'll have to try them after the holiday. Still waiting for my stuff to get to Seattle from Detroit.
Glad that gr8lakesgrrl asked.
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It's like you should have to fill in a questionnaire before writing in?
Has SO cheated on you more than five times? DTMFA and DON'T SUBJECT US OR DAN TO YOUR STUPIDITY.
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