re the 3rd question - I suspect this is where sis will trip up, because the more time she invests in it (and I suspect no matter what she says now, she'll really be willing to spend longer), the less the charming fun idiot has any reason to change.

Considering that she hooked up with this guy while he was still a newlywed, this could probably be chalked up to reap-what-you-sow, innit?

My prediction of what will happen:

She'll give her boyfriend the poly option and he'll accept.

After a while, she'll meet someone else she'd like to fuck, and she'll tell the boyfriend she wants to be poly too (or she'll just go ahead and fuck him without asking permission first).

Boyfriend will freak out and tell her he only wants her for himself.

Relationship will end badly.

How can this asshat be "a loving and devoted dad" if he's exposing his toddler to his fuck-em-and-leave-em antics?

I have a hard time believing someone that staggeringly immature can be a good parent. Unless the author is confusing friendship with parenting.

I don't think a dude deluding himself with such a teenager's ideal of love is really interested in a functioning poly relationship. He's chasing a feeling, not a goal.

Dump him on as good a terms as possible for the sake of the 3 year old, then she should take some time and figure out if she and her child deserve any better as well.

Hey, he's gone. He's either gone right now, or before long. So... what to do? Item #1: Child support. Secure a court order while you have an idea of his whereabouts.

Whatever else happens, you're going to need that.

Dan, I don't say this often, but I think you're being way too optimistic here.

This idiot left his previous wife of "a few months" for the sister, whom he promptly knocked up and 2.3 years later attempted to dump for the new love of his life.

Yeah, a poly relationship would be the logical way to salvage this... but only in a world where (a) this guy had a shred of ethics, self-awareness or emotional honesty to him, and (b) the sister had the good sense that god gave a shrub.

But we do not live in that universe: the dude is a compulsively cheating and dishonest sack of shit, and the sister is a delusional idiot. Frankly, I'd be not even a little surprised to find out that this is not the first child he's fathered and then fled.

#7 is right. Hammer out a child support agreement while you still know the asshole's zip code and phone number.

I'm not sure what I find more depressing about this: that there are people out there who would consider staying with someone like this, or that there are people out there who would get with him in the first place.

More to the point, how do these people even exist in society? How have they not burned their fingers off repeatedly touching hot stoves, or fallen down open manholes because they saw the caution tape and said, "eh, won't happen to me"?

"6
I don't think a dude deluding himself with such a teenager's ideal of love is really interested in a functioning poly relationship. He's chasing a feeling, not a goal."

Yup. People perpetually chasing "soulmates" through guile and charm need to be stuck in Neverland.

Ergh. NRE - got sucked in once, and never again. I think we dated for all of six weeks before he was claiming that he loved me, and six weeks after that, he was on to something new, thank goodness. In truth, that experience pretty much turned me off poly people...

@12: that's not poly per se. That's an idiot who's overly impressed by his own emotions -- plenty of those in the land of serial monogamy as well, as the letter-writer above can attest.

To the people saying "she should just secure child support and dump him": How do we even know that this joker is employed, or even employable? His presence in LW sis's life may be simply that of co-parent and househusband, however squirrely it may be. That may not be much, but just babysitting and being their to help raise the kid and do household shit may be worth more than his (possibly nonexistent) income. And he sounds like the type to, uh, not be able to hold down a job.

Just sayin'-- this letter was ostensibly written by LW's sister, not by her, so it's the perspective of an outsider looking in (albeit an identical twin).

@14 I didn't say to dump him. I just said he's probably either already gone or likely to walk away soon, so don't be planning that he's going to stick around.. Whether he stays or goes, imho, is secondary to establishing that he's the father and responsible for child support. If he stays and they can work out a mutually-acceptable living arrangement, well... that's gravy, or whatever, but hammer out the financials while you've got the opportunity. Even if he turns out to be a deadbeat, you'll at least have dibs on any earnings he has to report to the IRS and a way to track him.

[not sure]

Hurrah for bisexual twins, but a ten yard penalty (Mr Savage should remember this one if he wasn't too busy laughing at proles and helots with Mr Jennings) and loss of down for a third party letter.

@5 She's out; that's bi-visibility. She may be with a man, but that doesn't mean she's living as a heterosexual. If she were with a woman, would she be living as a homosexual? Is it your position that the only way for her to live as a bisexual is to be in a relationship with both a man and a woman at all times? That's kinda bullshitty.

DTMFA
And tell the husband. Just for fun.

Ask the idiot if he is going to step into adulthood any time soon, tell him your realize many people do stupid shit but if he cannot begin practicing honesty that you don't have time for his shit.

It shouldn't be hard to discern whether or not he understands the true meaning of exactly what you are asking, and unfortunately most people -- including many poly people -- won't understand.

People that have become adept at lying to themselves and mistake a convenient reality for the practice of honesty are not capable of being honest with anybody.

You never know when a person suddenly understands and voluntarily enters adulthood, so it's never a bad a idea to ask him one last time before leaving him,

"so I take it you aren't ready to live here, now, as yourself, as an adult who practices honesty as opposed to convenience?"

Everybody does stupid shit while on probation, esp when they are too stupid to comprehend you must voluntarily choose Life, before you really start Living, and it's only in hindsight you recognize these truths

Read some of the articles here at slog, and you'll see just like half to three-quarters of the comments; idiocy and ignorance from those who mistake their convenient reality for really Living

Jesus, are ALL men these days delusional adolescents in too-big bodies?

My late husband was just like this guy, except for the screwing around (as far as I know, at least). He whined and whined and whined about us "losing the magic" we used to have early on in our relationship.

Twenty YEARS earlier.

He just couldn't understand why it wasn't like it used to be--after wrecking the car, getting us $70K in debt to the IRS and being a dud in bed (due to diabetes, which didn't stop him from trying to blame me every time he couldn't get a hard on).

Frankly, if that's all that's out there these days, I'm glad I'm a widow.

I think Dan's advice was optimistic, but it looks like this is one of those letter's where the advice isn't necessarily for the LW so much as for the people who might be reading and thinking "This looks a little bit like my problem..."

It never ceases to amaze me these sociopathic guys who can swim through oceans of women. They all can see the wreckage but throw themselves on him regardless.

As for advice, I would skip to Dan's last line:
>there's no hope for salvaging a functional, stable, poly relationship out of this mess.

But they never listen.

I agree with the term applied by @13. The BF is a "Serial Monogamist" and has set himself into a life pattern of relatively short-term after short-term relationships. I don't have problems with people like this in principle... I have known a few, and the partners of these people tend to be aware of these tendencies before becoming just another point on the graph. However, now there is a kid involved (and perhaps other kids from earlier relationships). Guys like this are kind of assholes, because they spread their seed and move on. They have a responsibility to their kid(s) if no one else. At some point his decision making process has to include them.

Uh ... a clarification. This idiot is NOT a serial monogamist. Sounds more like a chain smoker who lights up the next smoke before the first one's finished. So, more like a serial bigamist.

I have to wonder at his job history, if he's been employed. How on earth can he stand to remain in a job once the honeymoon period has evaporated?

But, considering his juvenile instability - and the need to be free to be with his soulmate ('cuz, fer shur, the next one is bound to be THE one for him) - he's not mature enough to be a responsible polyamorist.

I also wonder how much help the sis could be in seeking or passing along advice, considering it's not the abandoned mom writing in to Dan. Anyway, the moral of the story seems to be: Don't fall for the charm without checking to see what's been swept under the rug (and is right under one's nose).

@26: " I don't have problems with people like this in principle... "

...but in practice they're attracted to drama, like this one that latches onto married partners.

and the polies who wouldn't understand what she really meant if she asked her boyfriend one last time before leaving,

"So I take it you're not ready yet to let go of convenience as your reality as opposed to practicing living honestly?"

just like half to three quarters of the slog commentors, just like the majority of slog authors, just like dip shit, are easy to identify because they are the one of the ones who fail to understand that there is not wrong relationship model to chose, people who desire soul mate(s) are not wrong nor naive, nor deluded, nor does it mean they are monogamists.

poly or non-monogamy is not superior to monogamy, one is not right and the other wrong but rather wrong and right ways to practice any type of relationship

and the people with the authority to decide what defines right or wrong are the people in the relationship

they are each one of many ways you can share your life with the person(s) you choose, and it really is a pretty fucked up thing to attempt to influence another's right to choose, esp when you are not part of that person's chosen relationship.

It's along the same lines of why it's wrong for Dan to go overboard an attack religion when it has been pathetic men and those who follow pathetic men who are responsible for the affliction Dan is angry about.

You can't fix the injustices of inequity by behaving the exact same way from the other side of the fence

The letter writer did ask, so go ahead and give your convenient trash talk about this style of relationship or that one, but you may want to realize that when you attack something that ins't the problem, as opposed to the idiot's habit of not being honest with those he claims to love, you are likely just as confused as the idiot

it's important to recognize the real problem, but in America you are free to go ahead and trumpet your own idiocy and ignorance, just know that some people do understand

Real life cannot be lived without respecting Humane Being's most basic rights, which have a lot to do with freedoms as to your chosen life and chosen family, without that respect where there is no love, you aren't living, you are ignorantly dying

which is your choice

but you don't have to be a prick about it

The worst kind of pricks are the assholes who need to be subtle about it, rather than having the courage to say it outright and take responsibility for it

@29: rarely have I been less interested in clicking the "more" link. Brevity, my man, brevity.

RE fathering: I know a guy who says he’s a terrible boyfriend but a good father. He has his toddler daughter half time. I believe him on both counts

I'd rather that those who let the media discern how one's mind shall be framed -- not hit the more link

so next time, let even the rarely instances dictate your actions Doc

This is why Dan's endless beating of the poly drum gets to me. This isn't a case of someone being bad at monogamy, this is someone more in love with the idea of being in love and willing to destroy his relationships to chase it.

And I agree with #4 this guy won't be a good Dad if he's willing to cut and run the instant Something Shiny catches his eye.

@33 it's best to remember that Dan is basically a fan of polyamory, but doesn't practice it himself. (Occasional three-ways and "monogamishery", while awesome in their own right, are a different thing.)

Which is fine -- not every booster needs to be a practitioner, any more than every supporter of gay rights needs to be gay -- but it does mean that he tends to have a somewhat rose-tinted view of how Actual Real Life Poly works, and that translates into occasional moments where he suggests it as a solution to problems for which it no-way, no-how is gonna actually work, like this one.

@32: apparently the light touch doesn't work with you. Let me try again: you are coming off like a barely-coherent crackpot with a personal axe to grind. If you want anybody to pay positive attention to your undoubtedly very important thoughts, you should stop that.

if only I cared what a trendy tabloid's employee's thunk about me or their alter egos commenting on their own bullshit and the dozen other readers who aren't employees

the day I start giving a shit about hypocritical, rapist mentality and their coinciding sense of responsibility, I'll go ahead and tone it down, but for today you might as well be named Matt, Dan, Jerk off from Gervais, Luke or any other asshole who should fuck hisself :-0

@36: oooooh, but which Stranger staffer am I the alter ego of? Maybe... alllllll of them. Scary!

Seek professional help. Also some remedial English lessons.

(okay, sorry folks for shitting up the thread by engaging with the mentally ill. I'll stop now.)

no worries mallard, but if you'd like, I advise you of the correct spelling of folks, and that way maybe we'd get a spine to sprout so you could stand up stand and have the courage to say what you mean

til then amigo