Comments

1
Editors at the Stranger...please please please please put someone else besides Charles on this story. His horrid coverage of the Knox case alone should convince you he should be nowhere near this case.
2
"The student newspaper, The Daily, reported earlier this month that the school chapter of the Delta Gamma sorority contacted police after receiving a call from an unidentified man saying he was “looking for someone to shoot.”

Sororities at the university have also reported getting anonymous threats and seeing chalk outlines outside their houses. Police have not determined whether Bhide will be charged in connection with these incidents. He is currently being held in jail on $150,000 and is expected to be charged with cyberstalking and felony harassment later this week."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/16/se…

Looks like it wasn't just youtube posts that got him in trouble, he may have been harassing these girls over the phone and in person.

I hope the sororities around Seattle are taking a hard look at their building security. A can of mace might be a good investment for all the sorority members as well.
3
He made threats on Google + and someone actually saw them?
4
Thank you for your sanity, Charles, and for the link between gun-loving and woman-hating
(and BTW, no way would you have been a lonesome virgin if I'd been at UW then)
5
There are a lot more virgins in college than many suspect. Sadly the ones who least suspect this are the virgins themselves so they can feel quite alone. And of course many more who are currently celibate not entirely by choice.
6
There are societies in the world that hate women. Ours is not one of them.
7
Frankfurt school and the economy.
8
@2, thanks for that link. @Raw Story, I hate that you used a stock photo at the top of the page and didn't attribute it as such until the very bottom. There's lots wrong with doing stupid, tabloidy shit like that (both things, separately and together) in connection with a story like this.

@4, I <3 you for that.
9
Charles,
The only thing I steadfastly disagree with from your posting is "we live in a society that hates women and loves guns". I just don't believe that. I, for one don't possess a firearm and like, love and respect women. I don't know of anyone in my family or circle of friends/acquaintances that hate women and love guns. Thank God for that.
10

Sounds like SPD is doing a better job than NSA at ferreting out the dingbats before they strike.

11
I don't think we hate women. I think there are deranged people.
13
Charles, you are the man.
14
@3: I chuckled more than a non-horrible person would have.
16
@9 - Lark, that's the equivalent of saying "I have friends of all races, therefore I don't believe that there is any racism in our society." It's a weak argument, and you are smarter than that. I acknowledge that you may not want to believe it (heck, I don't either), because it has bad implications for our society at large.

@6 & 11 - yes, our society hates women. Everything from our dominant conservative Christian religion to our ineptitude in combating an epidemic of sexual assault on college campuses points to roots of misogyny. It may not be as extreme or in the open as other societies, but that does not put us in the right.
17
Sure he would have been. He wasn't at the UW then.
18
@16
Do you think that Seattle hates women?
19
Are any of the commenters saying that our society does not hate women actually women?
20
"we live in a society that hates women and loves guns, and those things should never mix."

Is it too difficult to suggest that we just not hate women? In your mind, hating women is a-okay so long as we don't also love guns. Why do we need to have either?
21
@19: Bingo.
22
@19
Which suggests what...?
That all woman do agree that "our society does indeed hate women"?

1. What is our society? Seattle?
2. And what does "hating women" actually mean? That's pretty strong stuff.
3. Since women are about 50% of "society" then women partake of this women-hating. Right? Then stop your side of it.

I think that Charles' statement that "we live in a society that hates women and loves guns" is good for advertising revenue at SLOG but not much more.
23
I'm a 64 year old woman, with 64 years of experience being a woman -- if you doubt our society hates women (and loves guns) you are either blind, or a lying bag of shit.
25
@23
What does it mean by "our society hates women"?
Does it include Seattle?
How does the 50% of society (i.e. women) figure into your statement?
What does "hate" mean in real terms? Are you being attacked physically/verbally everywhere? And by other women?

I am not toying with you. I am trying to understand your statement.

If you said "There is still a lot of sexism and male chauvinism in Seattle" I'd say "Sure, I agree."

But you are going much much farther.
26
@22: Have you taken a look at #yesallwomen yet? Need I remind you of our conversation in the #yesallwomen thread? Misogyny in this country is alive and well.

@23: I think @22 may just be young.
27
@23: caution&daring also appears to be very literal minded. Nuance and hyperbole don't seem to be in his ken.
28
This society hates women?

Guess none of you have been to Africa, India, the ME, or most of Asia and seen how they treat women, have you?
29
your failing to acknowledge the obvious problem here. People are becoming increasingly miserable as friends, family and community in general deteriorates. In 40 years you guys will be thought of as the equivalent of climate change deniers. Big pharma is our suicide net; if it wasnt for them these fucked up terror events would be happening 10 fold.
30
Charles Mudede is one of the few journalists in the state of Washington who had the courage to report the facts in the Amanda Knox case. The rest of the local media just recited or rewrote press releases from David Marriott's PR firm. It only takes a couple million bucks to convince some people that black is white, up is down, etc.
31
@24, @28 I agree with your basic sentiments.
32
@31: Oh Grasshopper, your road just keeps getting longer. You agree with @24 who tries to negate Judi's lived experience by implying that she is just bitter? And you embrace @28's classic False Dilemma?
May I suggest you both read this article?

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-po…
33
@16Hernandez,
I'll start by saying you're a formidable opponent. I strongly and respectively disagree with you. And, I'm also not going to convince you or anyone else on SLOG. Nor, you me of your argument. I'm just defending. That's all.

First of all, I'm fairly certain that Pres. Obama doesn't preside over a "society that hates women".

Consider these accounts:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-14/bo…

If American "society hates women", I really wonder what it would be like to grow up female in Nigeria?

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/pakist…

If American "society hates women", I really wonder what it would be like to grow up female in Pakistan?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/world/asia…

If American "society hates women", I really wonder what it would be like to grow up female in India?

http://www.gendercide.org/case_infantici…

If American "society hates women", I really wonder what it would be like to grow up female in China & again India. If one gets to grow up at all. It is at least, in those societies where infanticide of girls and elective abortions of female fetuses is practiced. It is extremely difficult for me to come up with practices that have more contempt for the human female. I've read the the practices are skewering M-F populations and leaving future men w/o eligible women.

Look, I understand there are creeps like Rodgers around. Many perhaps. And yes, there is sexism and violence against women and girls in the USA and the West. But, an abject pervasive contempt for the human female under the law and in this culture doesn't exist. Especially to the degree in the four societies that I mentioned. Women and girls do have recourse under the law and culture in America. I believe much work needs to be done. But, we've come a long way and are ahead of the curve in some areas.

I firmly disagree with you and Charles on this one.


34
Cautionanddaring is, apparently, the bitter, lying bag of shit.

That is all.
35
Add Lark to that comment.
36
@33: Again with the False Dilemma. It's not an either/or situation but one of a matter of degree. May I invite you to also read this article?
http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-po…

Just because we in the West don't face as much hate as women in the countries you mention does not negate one iota the hate we do endure.

And may I point out that it is telling that you chose to address Hernandez, and with respect, rather than either me or Judi, both of whom have expressed the same points as Mr. Hernandez?
Just sayin'
37
@33
Lark, It's pointless.

There are some people here -- they claim to be female -- and are extremely angry and incapable of any kind of conversation. I've decided to just give up on them since -- one of them anyway --their bad vibration so visible one can see the spittle.
38
@30, Charles Mudede did not and does not know the "facts" in the Knox case, nor does anyone else except Amanda Knox herself. Mudede simply took it unto himself to obsess about the case as much as CNN, etc. from the opposite viewpoint.

And we didn't really need to know that much about you, Mudede. Yuck.
40
"I'm a 64 year old woman, with 64 years of experience being a woman -- if you doubt our society hates women (and loves guns) you are either blind, or a lying bag of shit."

@23 Let me guess, divorced?
41
@39
What the fuck is with you, asshole?
42
@lizza, nailed it.
43
By cautious and lark's (il)logic we should never notice or try to change anything wrong in this country, because there are places in the world worse!

So suck it up, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, centuries of slaves, Pearl Harbor in World War 2 -- this ain't Somalia here!

Quitcher bitchin' close your eyes, lie back and take it!

44
@43

Read what I wrote.
Sound out the words if you have to.
45
And let's not forget all those complainers in the 20th century: what, you don't want to work seven days a week, for 12 hour days, in unsafe work places, you want a fucking minimum wage?

Think they have minimum wage in Somalia?

Women who want to vote? Please, not when no one gets to vote in Somalia.

And you whining friends or relatives who didn't want your murdered loved ones dead? There are more murdered in Somalia, and you don't see their police force putting in overtime to solve murders.

Somalia doesn't even have a police force, so quitcher bitchin'.

47
@37: You disappoint me c&d. Implying posters with whom you disagree are not female, the oh so tired and trite accusation of women being too angry, and incapable of rational conversation....sigh.
If you have an actual argument, make it, otherwise please do read the link I posted and #yesallwomen, and do some thinking about what you read there.
48
@43
I am not sure if you (and your pals Lizzy and Kenny) are too stupid to read or just dishonest.
Either way, STFU and goodbye.
49
Good riddance to bad rubbish, caution, and take lark with you.
51
I love the idiot claiming I'm just pretending to be a woman.

Because that's the avatar everyone on the internet is jumping to claim: that of a 64 year old woman.
53
@51: LOL!

@52: Careful baby. You don't want to get another comment pulled do you?
54
@26 & 27
Yes, and so is misandry. As I say over and over again (but no feminists acknowledge) attractive men to me exist as simply a collection of cocks, balls and asses and I don't care about them as "precious individuals" and freely cat-call boys at bars and clubs (not that there are many men in Seattle worthy of such attention) fuck like an animal and go home, not giving a damn if they live or die....and yet if I had that attitude about women, every feminist from Shanghai to Chicago would be up in arms.
55
My personal favorite line of this whole stupid story:
"The thing we must keep in mind in all of this is that we live in a society that hates women and loves guns, and those things should never mix."
So women and guns should never mix? Or maybe SStranger articles and proper grammar and sentence structure never mix? Or is Charles Mudede just saying women should never own or fire a firearm? What a sexist jerk...
56
@5
Thank you. I mean yes, shooting people just because of their gender is WRONG and fucked up, but at the same time for every one campus killer who goes on and kills other there are probably twenty young men who commit suicide because they feel inadequate thanks to their lack of sex. And does anyone in the media (including the SStranger) give a fuck about them? No.

And the worse part is that the same feminist often engage in shaming male virgins. They say things like "what a pig! He's probably mad because he can't get laid" all the time.

There is nothing wrong with not being very good at flirting and having bad luck with women and it does not make one any less of a person. At no point did Charles Mudede say anything to that effect in this piece. In fact, his tone towards young men in this situation is so cruel that it could drive such a man over the edge and force him to kill himself. But hey, at least it's just a male dead. We all know they don't have feelings, right feminists?

Yes, women are more likely to be victims or rape and domestic violence. But who's more likely to commit suicide? MEN, AND BY A LARGE MARGIN: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton…
But feminists would never say this gender discrepancy says anything about society (unlike the gender discrepancies they always bring up) and they would probably look at more dead men as "progress". Man, I hate feminazis.
57
@1: His expectation that readers don't understand what quotation marks mean (and the obvious redundancy for those that do):

women wanted nothing to do with him, preferring "brutes" (to use his word).


...and his insistence on injecting himself into the story are further proof.
58
@54: Ohmygod.Dude. Ok, I get that all this "men are simply a collection of cocks, balls and asses and I don't care about them blah blah blah" is just you fronting why you've never managed to have a boyfriend, (I get that, I do), but I, a card carrying feminist have gotten up in your grill about this. Twice.
Here! I'll cut and paste the last time for you!

I have indeed addressed your scenario. I said that if that is how you treat the men you sleep with, and it is not in a consensual context, your treatment of them is fucked up. Shall I scream it at you? Very well, as a feminist: DUDE!! THAT’S FUCKED UP!!

That you have redefined feminism to fit your bias is no skin off my nose.
You can if you wish, decide that feminism is against helium balloon bouquets, but that we are not in an uproar about the cruel contortion and mutilation of innocent balloons in the production of carnival poodles and giraffes for our amusement. And that that is rank, rank I say! HYPOCRACY!11!1!
Please, feel free. It would make as much sense. Now will you please stop saying that no one has said boo to you about your awful MISANDRY!

59
@16

What in the world has ever made you think that lark is smarter than that?
60
@58
It has NOTHING to do with consent. Plenty of men womanize and the women they "use" consent to it, and yet feminists get up in arms about it. It is not just about consent with feminism: if that was the case, they would STFU about porn and strippers. They hate that men "degrade" women, but if a man degrades other men, they don't care.
And I don't want a boyfriend because I never believed that idiotic sex=love thing. I just pick up guys, but few are fun in Seattle. Relationships are overrated.
61
I'll just point out that there are about 90 different kinds of feminism. Not all of them are about equality, and some really do qualify as misandry.

You can't defeat a degradation of the respect given to an entire class or gender by degrading the respect you give to another class or gender. That's not an 'ism', that's an arms race.

#yesallwomen are harassed doesn't mean #yesallmen are harassers. The guys who aren't are going to be really bummed out to be lumped in with the ones who are. Alienating 50% of the human race can't be the moral high ground. It just can't.
62
Misandry! Misandry! Misandry! Misandry!Misandry! Misandry! Misandry! Misandry!

The cry of the poor, poor put-upon butthurt (I'm betting white) guy.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
63
@62

... You do understand that at some point you start making your side sound ridiculous? Is that your purpose? You do have a decent grasp of feminism I hope, and recognize that it runs the gamut from mutual respect and equality to hatred and demonization?

Did you mean your post to be a racist call against white people? Have you not seen posts regarding violent crime that go along the lines of 'I'm betting black dudes'? Your post isn't different.

You just attacked a group based upon their skin color. I'm pretty sure that isn't what being a liberal is all about.
64
@Collectivism_sucks, Dude you have issues, serious issues.
65
@61: Indeed there are! And as with any movement there are wild and wooly fringes. I've gone many a round with Radfems regarding porn and BDSM, and with TERFs about their appalling trans hate. These are women who regard any penetration, even between women, as rape. So yeah they are out there and they hate men.
But isn't it funny that when speaking of feminists it's these women on the margins of the movement, who have no real audience outside their own echo chamber blogs, and who certainly have no real influence that are held up as The Face of Feminists (tm)?
The majority of feminists in the media and public eye and in general don't lump all men in with rapists. That was the whole point of #yesallwomen. We know that Not All Men are represented by the sort of shit heel discussed in this article, never the less enough men are like him to varying degrees that ALL women have been effected.
I know that makes a lot of men uncomfortable and defensive, and well, I'm sorry, but boo hoo. Your attitude is hurting your movement. Try pointing out to collectivism_sucks that defining feminism as its most narrow and loony iteration is myopic, childish and self serving. Stop pretending that all feminists are Radfems and that we think all men are MRAs and rapists just to get yourselves off the hook of examining yourselves and how you need to be a part of the structural changes that need to be made so that #yesallwomen will no longer be a fact of life.
66
@ 65"But isn't it funny that when speaking of feminists it's these women on the margins of the movement, who have no real audience outside their own echo chamber blogs, and who certainly have no real influence that are held up as The Face of Feminists (tm)?"

Interesting - that's the same "logic"(or tactic) that progressives use against Christians all the time. The nuts on the fringe are always held up as the "face" of Christianity.
67
@61: In short, instead of coming in here and tell Judi, who has been at this for half a century, that she's doing feminism wrong, and to stop being so angry, how about you address what's making her so angry. How about you take collectivism_sucks to task, or caution&daring, or the unregistered toads hopping about in this thread? How about being one of the good guy army of Not All Men, and put your money where your mouth is? Because I'm pretty sure that's what being a liberal is all about.
68
@66: You are absolutely right, which is why NALT Christians are so inportant, and which is why you won't catch me lumping them in with the nuts, but encouraging them to kick the nuts out of the Christian chex mix. Just like the Not All Like That ( NALT) men should be working to root out misogyny instead of telling us ladies to stop picking on them.
69
@67: Bravo, Lissa! I wish I was in the same country as you so I could buy you a drink.
71
"Penis-Americans are women-hating gun-mongers" is a fine model, and it probably fits in more cases than we would like, but I find it a bit too broad. Most of the men I know don't fit this frame.

I also find that this model distracts me from other relevant and possibly actionable issues at play here. For example: lack of care for our mentally ill, reckless propaganda by monied interests (NRA in this case), unworkable political system (where politicians are paid for by those monied interests -- again, NRA in this case -- while pretending to represent voters), lack of sense of community on UW campus.

I want good, accessible mental health care. I want my politician representing me, a mere human (rather than being sponsored by our "corporate" "citizens"). I want students on our campuses feel connected. I want... well, let's start here.
72
@69: Aww, you are too kind. :)
73
@70
To you and everyone else who accuses us of inventing "strawfeminism" I have to say this: NOW YOU KNOW HOW LIBERTARIANS FEEL! Not all feminists are like Andrea Dworkin, Valerie Solanas and Mary Daly? Okay...and not all, hell MOST libertarians are NOTHING LIKE the Koch Brothers or the Tea Party.
When progressives start to admit that most libertarians hate corporate America, are anti-war, anti-right to work, pro-union, etc I'll maybe stop calling the man haters by their rightful name.
74
@73 Nobody gives a fuck about libertarians. Now quit derailing and stick to the topic at hand.

Lissa deserves a strong drink for taking all of these neckbeards to task. I'd jump in and help, but I'm too busy being freaked the fuck out that I, as a woman who works on the UW campus, could have been shot by this misogynist asshole simply for being a vagina carrier and not having fucked him like he thought he was entitled to. THAT'S my real problem, not your man-child internet whingeing about #notallmen.
75
@74: I would like a nice Manhattan, now that you mention it. :)
I'm glad that they got him, and I'm glad that you are safe.
76
@74
Yes, and there are plenty of anti-gay hate crimes I "could" have been victims of (if I didn't get my butterfly knife out soon enough that is, which I doubt) I "could" be a victim of racist hate crimes too.

But do I go around screaming that "straight people suck" or "white crackers are evil! Overthrow white people!"? No. I just understand that assholes exist. Simple as that. Women have to deal with different kinds of assholes than gay/bi men do (no pun intended...) and people of color have to deal with different forms of assholedom as well, while there certainly is some overlap.

This whole victim-identity thing is absurd and counterproductive. Feminism seems to be about defining women as victims and nothing else, and if I was a woman I would feel offended. Likewise, as a person of color, I can't stand 99% of the dashiki wearing crowd screaming "no justice, no peace! We still be slaves!". I'm far from a slave and those fools don't speak for me.

Why worry about assholes so much? Everyday could be your last day on Earth. Just learn to defend yourself, keep your eyes open and go on with your life.
77
The author talking about his own history with masturbation is not journalism. Oh wait, for that author, those are both the same thing.
78
@71: "We live in a society that hates women" =/= "Penis-Americans are women-hating"

Living in a society that hates women means our cultural stories are about hating women, that our institutions encourage the hatred of women, and yes, both individual men and women can be affected by that societal hatred of women.

Why can't people get that?

@75: I am sending many Manhattans across the internet to you.
79
@78: Yay Manhattans!
80
@73: You think that we should abolish the minimum wage so that racial minorities will be able to work for less money than white people instead of possibly facing hiring discrimination. As far as dispelling stereotypes goes...at least you tried dot jpeg.
81
@80
I want it lowered so unions can do the negotiating like they do in Europe where many countries have no MW, and I think it makes it harder for all unskilled workers to get in on the ground floor and have a chance to work themselves up, and a big portion of those unskilled workers are workers of color. Again, straw-libertarianism.
And feminism is all based on stereotyping: stereotyping all men as rapists who want ever woman to be either at home cooking him dinner or chained to a bed in a homemade dungeon.

When they stop saying "all men are rapist!" and worshiping Andrea Dworkin and Mary Daly, I'll stop saying "all feminists are dirt bags".
82
@81: Oh listen to you! Feminism is nothing of the sort.

Feminism - Definition Merriam-Webster
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/femin…
the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities.


My goodness! Now doesn't that look like a movement a nice libertarian could get behind?

Defining feminism as its most narrow and wack a loon iteration, and then complaining about stereotypes, does not encourage us to take you for a serious thinker.
83
@81: oh and by the way? All but one of your comments in the #yesallwomen thread?
They've been pulled.
There! Now you have something to feel aggrieved about. :)
84
@76: not actually true. As a self-identifying feminist who is friends with many of the same, I have never, not once, heard a feminist or an ally say "as a woman, I'm a victim" unless they're talking about their personal experience as a victim of sexual assault, harassment, etc. The point of feminism is expressly to let women identify themselves, as individuals.

If a group doesn't speak for you and you don't identify with them? Fine. That's great, whatever floats your boat, etc. However, do keep in mind that there are plenty of people who do identify with the cause and find it comforting to belong to a group of like-minded people with similar experiences. Their experiences are not your experiences.

We worry about assholes because these assholes directly affect our life experiences, and some of us aren't content to shrug and say "welp, just the way things are, I guess". Change was never achieved because people "got on with their lives".
85
@67

I try not to engage with collectivism. It's pointless. Some of the other troll-ish folks around here seem to be really invested in their politics, but I believe collectivism is just adopting a stance for attention. His 'Oh yeah?! Well...!' response is way too overdeveloped on Every Single Issue. You can only degrade the overall quality of the forum by discussing anything with him.

I don't need to be an activist for any particular movement to point out when someones going to far. The 'must be a white guy' line... replace that with another ethnicity and you'd have 50 comments calling racism. Everyone should knock that off. It's currently socially acceptable, but it really shouldn't be.
86
@85: Well I'll say this, ya ain't wrong about collectivism. His whole on line persona is just a little too on the nose.
As to your second point, I guess that's a no, then. You're more interested in telling the ladies not to be so angry than you are in doing anything about why. Ok, what evs. Personally I don't think Judi was out of line. White male privilege is a thing, and collectivism, despite his some what convenient claims of being both African and Native America, reeks of it. I have no time for the dominant paradigm whining about reverse racism.
87
@86
First, I NEVER said I was Native American. NOTHING against Native Americans, just saying I'm not one. I MAY have a bit of Native blood, but that's about it. I'm more Italian than anything else.
Second, people are telling men like the UCSB killer, most of whom just commit suicide, to just "not be angry" as opposed to, oh, I don't know, maybe showing some human compassion to people who have social difficulties.
Are people entitled to sex? No. But they aren't entitled to food or healthcare either. BUT, I would make help someone who was without either food or healthcare. Likewise, a man who is social awkward and a virgin doesn't need to hear nothing but shame. I've heard feminists say things like "this man's just angry cause he can't get a girlfriend!" all the time. Would I ever mock someone as being "angry just because they can't afford food"? No.
If I have to accept that male privilege is real, I don't see why it is okay to ignore virgin shaming in society (as for male privilege, I'll ignore the fact that my cock means I can get drafter but a vagina is a get-out-of-the-draft-free card and always has been) Why is it male virgins are laughing stocks who are okay to ridicule, but female virgins are "virtuous" or a "tease"?
And no, I have no sympathy for the shooter, because, Dexter Morgan not withstanding, killing people isn't usually the answer. But I do have sympathy for men like this: http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/06/11/…
But the feminist response it to rejoice at "evil males" killing themselves. And if the shooter had only committed suicide, I doubt a single feminist would care. I would tell someone like that that it's alright to be awkward and being a virgin isn't the worse thing on Earth and that escorts aren't that expensive...or just be gay, and not have to worry about it because us gay guys have no problems getting laid.
And SPARE ME that crap about "feminism is just about equality". White nationalists claim they're just about "protecting the white race" and claim they "don't hate other races" just as feminists claim they "don't hate men." Same BS excuses.
88
@87: I do beg your pardon! I apologize for the mistake regarding your ethnicity. In answer to your question regarding the different cultural response to male versus female virginity, you can blame the patriarchy for that. Female chastity is primary to our value, while men are pressured to be the opposite. And no, that's not fair to either gender, although your food/sex comparison is a bad one since no one has ever died from virginity. If the UCSB killer had only killed himself, there would not have been any rejoicing by feminists, or any one for that matter, because it would never have made the news and no one would have even known. Also, citation please, to support your assertion.

You're right that being an awkward virgin is not the end of the world. My first husband was 23 when we met and I was the first woman he had ever dated let alone even kissed. He did aaaaaall right. :)

Telling straight men to just "be gay" is asinine, as is your comparison of feminism to white supremacism. But we have already established that a great intellect you are not.

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