If you read all the way to the end you'll see that Brett Hamill did nothing but stir up this shit in the wake of the SB shootings. Of course you would thank him for it, seeing as Slog has become so damn tabloid.
Wow, I never thought I could respect and appreciate Lindy West, Ahamefule J. Oluo, and Brett Hamill more than I already do. Now I absolutely adore them for fighting the good fight against these petulant little shitbirds.
I'm not really a fan most of Lindy's work, but fucking asshole misogynists gonna make me ignore her disclaimer and read her stuff, 'cuz feminism's awesome.
(And the letters from the two guys who's names I've already forgotten are whiny as all git out. Whinier than anything Seattleblues ever wrote here, and that's pretty damn whiny.)
from an outsider, this seems to be a tempest in a teapot. that said, it's super real to the half dozen or so who are right up against it and ass deep in it, so... best of luck to them. but to the rest of this, this is an internet flamewar made public.
and here's why that's a bad thing: lindy is a terrific writer and super funny and completely not afraid and willing to walk something back when she's straight up wrong. and the mere mention of her involvement in some localized pissing match brings out the trolls and haters (see @2, @3, @5) and it's just too early in her career to let trolls and haters gain traction in their attempts to shoot her down.
yes, i know that all politics is local, but i can't help but feel that lindy's about to take the leap which will allow her to rise above all the local doughy, keyboard warrior bullshit and for that reason, surfacing her and ahamefule's flicking of the fleas only highlights how she's ankle deep in the mud of the "local comedy scene".
or shit, i don't know. either way, good luck to l & A and keep on pushin'.
You really should pay attention to the disclaimer at the top, if you're involved in the scene, you know that the issue happened a year ago, was settled up then, and then rehashed by Brett Hamill and implied gentlemen in the scene were like the Isla Vista shooter. Both of their apologies sound sincere and not whiny. Brett should have talked with these comedians personally as they all know each other and not started mindless internet drama.
I know all of the people involved and I can say this: misogyny in comedy is real, misogyny in Seattle is always-improving and the two gentlemen mentioned above are not misogynist and actually work hard to make opportunities for women in the scene. Lindy is lovely, but is not a regular facet of Seattle comedy and often her stance on issues in the scene is misinformed. Brett Hamill's regard in the community has actually taken a hit because of all this.
Remember, there are people on the other side of the internet. They have feelings too.
My favorite part is where Robert apologizes to Lindy's boyfriend for saying he hoped she fell down the stairs - before apologizing to Lindy. Does anyone else find that odd?
Dammit, now I have to cross Oluo off my list for people I kind of liked. He was once edgy without being completely smug. But, I wonder if that's changed since dating(?!) Lindy, one of the smug guest writers to come down the pipe since Palheniuk.
Really though, everybody here acted badly. Saying you hope somebody falls down a flight of stairs isn't threatening them. There's more implied threat in saying that you hope somebody justifies their statement "in person." The Lindy East account wasn't that funny, but it wasn't a threat either. And, Lindy should be able to take that kind of joke. Just because you think you're speaking truth doesn't mean you cannot be criticized for it.
That said, breaking out knives and guns then bragging about it on Facebook is worse form. And, rehashing old drama a year later is awful too.
The Seattle comedy scene could do with ostracizing all five of these self-centered, self-serving assholes. Oluo, you used to seem better than this. Get out of that relationship fast.
Here's the thing, if it was "wrapped up" with an honest, open apology to Lindsey, there would be no story to write about. Or the story would end with "But then they admitted they were jerks, and hey! I hear they've done cool things since then." Since it doesn't end that way, the "wrap up" is just those two guys thinking "ok, make a half-assed apology where I play the victim, and then keep my head down and hope this shit goes away."
That's not a wrap up, that's cowardice. The same cowardice that brings about comments like 3 and 5.
I'm in Seattle but follow Portland and LA comics more, want to be part of the local scene, but between personal issues and horror stories from former locals who've moved on, it's not exactly inviting. I used comedy to get away from the bullies. To hear they just moved is maddening.
Hey somehow the screen grab is missing from the facebook thread where a female comedian talks about how uncomfortable Brett Hamill made her when she first started by singling her out and talking about her nice boobs on stage (in the dark basement of the comedy underground). I'm sure that was an innocent mistake.
This article should have been titled "Lindy West does NOT forgive two Seattle comics."
How shocking that the dickholes responding in this thread, the ones trying to insult Lindy by focusing on her appearance/size/feminism are hiding behind made-up names.
Everyone that gets online and hides behind a shroud of anonymity are straight up cowards, IMO. If you've got the balls enough to say something, have the balls to own your words.
I'm on Facebook. Look me up if you want. I'm not hiding.
Other than showing up at a club ready to kill someone over an Internet argument--which is crazy--this whole thing reads like an account of people who take online trolling way too seriously, both in giving and receiving.
I know there are young people who kill themselves over this stuff. Adults are supposed to have thicker skin or better emotional outlets. They should be able to handle someone saying something stupid like, "You are ugly, and I hope you die." Being scared by that is like being afraid of the dark...
Unless the guy saying it is running around with a 9mm in his trunk and a knife in his pocket. But hindsight is 20/20.
I see how Lindy West might have seen a threat where no legal one was made, and where it might not have been intended, given the reported other threats she was facing. Easy to file it in the same category as much more direct and clear threats made with an intent to silence, rather than a hamfisted expression of disdain. Easier still knowing that the guy is apparently willing to kill people over Internet fights.
Again, that is crazy. I certainly hope he has grown as a person.
"SILLY GIRLS! relax.....NOBODY would ever hurt a girl for just standing up for herself!"
B.S.
WHEN are you men going to shut up & listen?... YOUR MOTHERS, DAUGHTERS, SISTERS, LOVERS, FRIENDS live in constant state of ALERT for follow through of threats and intimidation.
STATISTICS AND DATA, sadly, prove that our fears are well founded.
The public printing of this HE SAID-SHE SAID flame war looks pretty damn familiar in tone and technique.... a great segment of the female population experiences this kind of "joking" or "conversation" with men who do not like the way we are "acting" ... TRULY
@30 Bullshit. I've seen the same "I hope you get a disease/injured/die a horrible painful death" rhetoric aimed at men too. Lindy West says some frightfully awful things, half of which aren't true. Hell, in this very post, my bullshit detector was going off during her "Oluo was only defending me." Fucking bullshit. He said he wanted it said in person (read: to his face), so he could intimidate him right back.
Oluo was doing more direct intimidation than Robert, and Lindy is all "it was all Robert and I was scared!"
No. Fair is fair, and threatening behavior is worse than intimations for hope of injury. Fucking flame wars got out of hand, and everybody played a part in adding fuel to the fire.
@30 People, including women, say that stuff to or about other people, including men, all the time. It is not, by itself a threat.
I remember some young lady telling me that back in highschool, stemming from her not liking my Halloween costume. At the time, I laughed. "I hope you die," is not a threat. If it were, it would be a surprisingly passive and pitiful one.
Actually claiming indimidation over indirect and childish ill-wishing is unsurprisingly passive-aggressive and pitiful.
(And the letters from the two guys who's names I've already forgotten are whiny as all git out. Whinier than anything Seattleblues ever wrote here, and that's pretty damn whiny.)
and here's why that's a bad thing: lindy is a terrific writer and super funny and completely not afraid and willing to walk something back when she's straight up wrong. and the mere mention of her involvement in some localized pissing match brings out the trolls and haters (see @2, @3, @5) and it's just too early in her career to let trolls and haters gain traction in their attempts to shoot her down.
yes, i know that all politics is local, but i can't help but feel that lindy's about to take the leap which will allow her to rise above all the local doughy, keyboard warrior bullshit and for that reason, surfacing her and ahamefule's flicking of the fleas only highlights how she's ankle deep in the mud of the "local comedy scene".
or shit, i don't know. either way, good luck to l & A and keep on pushin'.
I know all of the people involved and I can say this: misogyny in comedy is real, misogyny in Seattle is always-improving and the two gentlemen mentioned above are not misogynist and actually work hard to make opportunities for women in the scene. Lindy is lovely, but is not a regular facet of Seattle comedy and often her stance on issues in the scene is misinformed. Brett Hamill's regard in the community has actually taken a hit because of all this.
Remember, there are people on the other side of the internet. They have feelings too.
Really though, everybody here acted badly. Saying you hope somebody falls down a flight of stairs isn't threatening them. There's more implied threat in saying that you hope somebody justifies their statement "in person." The Lindy East account wasn't that funny, but it wasn't a threat either. And, Lindy should be able to take that kind of joke. Just because you think you're speaking truth doesn't mean you cannot be criticized for it.
That said, breaking out knives and guns then bragging about it on Facebook is worse form. And, rehashing old drama a year later is awful too.
The Seattle comedy scene could do with ostracizing all five of these self-centered, self-serving assholes. Oluo, you used to seem better than this. Get out of that relationship fast.
Here's the thing, if it was "wrapped up" with an honest, open apology to Lindsey, there would be no story to write about. Or the story would end with "But then they admitted they were jerks, and hey! I hear they've done cool things since then." Since it doesn't end that way, the "wrap up" is just those two guys thinking "ok, make a half-assed apology where I play the victim, and then keep my head down and hope this shit goes away."
That's not a wrap up, that's cowardice. The same cowardice that brings about comments like 3 and 5.
You're all making the sport look bad, especially the Stranger for posting this he said/she said outragebait.
I went to a comedy fundraiser last year with mostly local "comics". The only funny person there was a lesbian from out of town.
I laughed at her too.
This article should have been titled "Lindy West does NOT forgive two Seattle comics."
Everyone that gets online and hides behind a shroud of anonymity are straight up cowards, IMO. If you've got the balls enough to say something, have the balls to own your words.
I'm on Facebook. Look me up if you want. I'm not hiding.
Tonya Ritchey Rosenberg
I know there are young people who kill themselves over this stuff. Adults are supposed to have thicker skin or better emotional outlets. They should be able to handle someone saying something stupid like, "You are ugly, and I hope you die." Being scared by that is like being afraid of the dark...
Unless the guy saying it is running around with a 9mm in his trunk and a knife in his pocket. But hindsight is 20/20.
I see how Lindy West might have seen a threat where no legal one was made, and where it might not have been intended, given the reported other threats she was facing. Easy to file it in the same category as much more direct and clear threats made with an intent to silence, rather than a hamfisted expression of disdain. Easier still knowing that the guy is apparently willing to kill people over Internet fights.
Again, that is crazy. I certainly hope he has grown as a person.
B.S.
WHEN are you men going to shut up & listen?... YOUR MOTHERS, DAUGHTERS, SISTERS, LOVERS, FRIENDS live in constant state of ALERT for follow through of threats and intimidation.
STATISTICS AND DATA, sadly, prove that our fears are well founded.
The public printing of this HE SAID-SHE SAID flame war looks pretty damn familiar in tone and technique.... a great segment of the female population experiences this kind of "joking" or "conversation" with men who do not like the way we are "acting" ... TRULY
Oluo was doing more direct intimidation than Robert, and Lindy is all "it was all Robert and I was scared!"
No. Fair is fair, and threatening behavior is worse than intimations for hope of injury. Fucking flame wars got out of hand, and everybody played a part in adding fuel to the fire.
I remember some young lady telling me that back in highschool, stemming from her not liking my Halloween costume. At the time, I laughed. "I hope you die," is not a threat. If it were, it would be a surprisingly passive and pitiful one.
Actually claiming indimidation over indirect and childish ill-wishing is unsurprisingly passive-aggressive and pitiful.