Comments

1
Religion: Making People's Lives Worse Since Forever
2
they're out to get you, Danny
3
I hope Swedish gets the same treatment that Eastside Catholic got over its firing of Mark Zmuda. It is time.
4
I vote elaborate PR scam!
5
Does the "... or any other protected status" count?
6
those are the only two options you see, Dan?
7
but, if it's Washington law, wouldn't sexual orientation fall under "any other protected status"?
8
Also, does what they write into their ads have any legal consequences? I don't know, just wondering if job ads have any legal status - I'd expect the contract to be key.
9
I think they're in for a losing battle. Despite the author of this article's description of the case as a resounding victory for the Catholic Church, 5 WA Supreme Court justices don't think the exemption should apply to employees in non-religious positions employed by religious organizations.

http://catholicwatch.org/supreme-court-g…

I see this as a desperate attempt by Swedish to bank of the 4 Justice lead opinion that, like marriage equality, is going to be a loser for the religious right in WA. 4 of the 5 justices on the correct side don't even think the exemption for religious orgs is constitutional, and 1 of the 4 that would uphold the exemption just got replaced by Justice Mary Yu. So we 'll see.
11
One more disturbing consequence of the loss of non-Catholic hospitals. . . bad for patients and really bad for employees.

I think it is papal PR/unfiltered talk crashing into the Kryptonite Bishopric.
12
@6 I believe Dan is being at turns, rhetorical and making a call to action there.

Dan certainly has a deep enough relationship with the Catholic Church to know it as a hidebound historical institution, as a fucking huge bureaucracy and as a catholic (in the sense of diverse and embracing of competing interests and interpretations) church.
13
I've made several posts here since Francis became pontiff saying his kinder, gentler talk is all PR BS without any real substance. People basically said I was just cynical and anti religion, blah blah blah.

I'm not often sad to be right, but here we are.
14
This probably has more to do with corporate attorneys unifying company-wide messaging than a political agenda.(Not to imply that the Sisters of Providence don't have a political agenda.)
15
@ 1 wow you are intolerant but then most atheists are right.

@13 can your prove that?
16
@15 I notice you didn't refute @1's point...
17
@15: The proof (as much as it can exist here) is that for all the talk about a church that is trying to stop being cartoonishly evil, nothing has actually changed.

The church is still doing everything it can to ensure AIDS runs rapid through Africa, rapists of children are protected and provided with fresh victims, and women everywhere are deprived of autonomy over their bodies. No progress has actually been made, just talk.
18
Prove what? That I'm right or that I have said this before? The Pope has basically said I was right. After his "who am I to judge" comments he clearly stated that this doesn't change the stance of the church on issues of homosexuality:

"The pope then recalled his comments in July, when he told the media aboard a flight to Rome, "Who am I to judge" gay people?

By saying this, I said what the catechism says," the pope told Spadaro. The catechism, the Catholic Church's book of official doctrine, condemns homosexual acts, but says gays and lesbians "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.""

On gay marriage:

"“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods," he told his Jesuit interviewer. "I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that."

But the pope said the church's teachings on those issue are clear, and he clearly believes in those teachings, so what else is there to say?"

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/19…

So he has made no substantive changes to the church's positions on these things, and he admits he hasn't. He has changed the tone of how they say it, and admits that he is just keeping quiet about some of it, but that the stance of the church has not altered.

Changing tone and avoiding some topics without changing actual policy = PR

I rest my case.
19
I guess I won't be seeking care at Swedish ever again.
20
Hi, I work for Swedish and I can tell you all that this post is 100 percent FALSE. Swedish stands by and protects all of its employees and jobs applicants (and patients) from all forms of discrimination, including discrimination based on sexual and gender identity, sexual orientation and marital status. Here are copies of the Swedish anti-discrimination policies, which protect and include all LGBT employees, posted on our news blog:

http://www.swedish.org/about/blog/may-20…
21
Swedish just told me the post's facts aren't true, and gave me the same link @20 did. Hm.
22
Also note that the word age was omitted in the new text.

That's because age is never part of the ideology.

Because young people want our stuff...and it allows you to criticize republicans.

23
"... or any other protected status."

This catch-all language incorporates the protections of the states in which Providence operates, without it having to pay its attorneys to research and draft different statements for each state. It doesn't change anything in Washington.

I'm disappointed by the click-bait post title, Dan. You're better than that.
24
@19 A lot of people may not have many other options.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

What happened with that story? The above was the last I remember hearing.
25
Beyond worker's rights the real problem I have as someone seeking care is that certain procedures will simply not be performed at Swedish or other religious hospitals. I want my medical decisions to be made by my doctor, not by priests. Many people don't even know what procedures aren't available since they simply never hear about the options.

Catholic hospitals generally do not provide abortions, contraception, tubal ligations, vasectomies, or in-vitro fertilizations. Their standards for end-of-life care may be affected by dogma so they may disregard common living will wishes if they amount to what the church considers euthanasia. It also affects research and emerging treatments like gene therapy or the use of stem cells.

And if you think all of this is just scare tactics. Swedish no longer does elective abortions. People in Seattle are lucky to be able to turn to Planned Parenthood or other providers. But, Swedish today is making decisions about their patient's health based on dogma handed down from priests.
26
Under pressure on abortion, Swedish backs new Planned Parenthood clinic

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2…
27
@25,

Any woman suffering a miscarriage should avoid Catholic hospitals like the plague. It's not just hospitals in Ireland that will intentionally let pregnant women die. Those deaths have been happening in the U.S. as well.
28
The "Who am I to judge?" means the same thing it's always meant: Hate the sin, love the sinner. Of course, that's impossible, but the Church has always championed the impossible.
29
As far as attempting to prove, either before or after hiring or firing, that refusing a job or letting an employee go was due to their orientation or marital status, it's damn near impossible. It's a "but-for" claim: there has to be no other reason for the lack of hiring or the firing but orientation/marital status. The Church is pretty safe there. And they were safe with the Catholic school on the Eastside: the principal was not employed by the Archdiocese. There are all kinds of ways for the Church to be safe from the law, especially since there are 4 (arguably 5) conservative Catholics on the US Supremes.
30
There is simply no foundation for the allegations in this post. And I don't think Swedish qualifies as any time of religious organization. They aren't owned by Providence or the church, and the Swedish PR person is not really directly affiliated with the Catholic church, the Swedish-Providence affiliation is more complicated than that. It was not a merger or an aquisition.

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/…

And, although they did stop providing abortions when the affiliated with Providence, they did give space and money to Planned Parenthood to make sure their patients didn't lose access.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppgnw/P…

Which means that a little internet searching will give you enough information to tell you that it is absurd to assume they would start discriminating against LGBT employees or applicants. Or at least that it is not the type of claim that should be made based on an advertisement without any other type of factual basis whatsoever.
31
@30

Dan Savage and factual basis are mutually exclusive terms. He doesn't do journalism, he does opinion. He has an agenda to further, and can do that best by not worrying about little details like foundation for allegations.
32
This just in, Dan forgot to mention he was married and had a son in this post. The only conclusion is that he no longer does. What tragedy occurred and was it in So Cal ?
33
Don't Tase Me, Swedish Bro!
34
uhm - wouldn't an apology be in order?
35
There was clearly an ("unintentional"?) slip up that Dan has helped to correct. Because WA’s Supreme Court has said that religious employers are exempt from WA’s anti-discrimination law, any language that suggests that "state law" will protect employees at Providence/Swedish is no longer correct. In order for Providence/Swedish to protect the rights of LGBT employees, the language needs to be written specifically and explicitly into job postings, because the law itself does not offer protection without it.
36
@35 - I don't think Swedish counts as a "religious employer" as they are an independent entity. They are not a church and they are not owned by a church, they merely have an "affiliation" and a shared board with another company that is owned by a church.
37
As the author of the original post, I stand corrected on Swedish. Since my post appeared, they have released a public statement that makes clear Swedish doesn't discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or marital status and they are updating job postings to clarify this. All great news.

But the person who responded to me directly on this, a spokesperson for Providence (Swedish is a wholly owned subsidiary of Providence), inadvertently raised another issue when she clarified the policy for Providence, which makes clear that employees are protected on the basis of sexual orientation, but not on marital status. I have asked her directly whether Providence protects gay, married employees and where that policy language is available. I am still waiting to hear.

38
Count your blessings, people; you are in a city (Seattle) that can pressure a hospital into supporting a Planned Parenthood clinic next door to it... and pressure it into saying it's still doing tubal litigations and other contraception in spite of this affiliation.

Too many other places don't have the people to pressure hospitals taken over by Catholic hospitals....

Keep up the good work! Make sure it stays open and honest and non-discriminating!
39
Tonight (Thursday night, May 29), I heard back from Providence spokesperson Colleen Wadden. The newly revised, post-Ockletree language for Providence is very clear and unequivocal:

Here's updated post: http://catholicwatch.org/providence-disc…

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