Comments

1
If $10.74 is good enough for San Fransisco why isn't it good enough for Seattle?
2
But does this study look into how raising the minimum wage might affect the small business owner who is an asset to the community trying to open their 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th or 10th or 11th restaurant to give the municipality its unique character, hmm? That 11th restaurant means jobs, you know.
3
Note, during the council hearings, restaurants admitted they would hire more American citizens who speak English

Which is who votes here.
4
San Francisco's $10.74 is not the same as Seattle's $15.00. That's not speculation, the data shows that it's $4.26 more.
5
Look naysayers someone some where totally raised minimum wage before, so shut up.

What do you mean this is the largest percentage ever?

What, the opposition is OK with the number as long as its gradual?

OMG SLAVE LABOR, YOUR AN ASSHOLE, POVERTY WAGES, HOW DARE YOU MAKE MORE THAN MINIUM WAGE, I HATE YOUR BUSINESS
6
I don't think it will impact tipping. Tips will go up, if anything, as food priced go up a little and halfway-decent people tip 15-20% on their bill.
7
If comparing San Francisco in the 90s (you know, during the dot com boom, when the economy was going well) to Seattle now is the closest thing you have to a comparison, we could all be in very big trouble. I don't think the two compare well at all - and I support a raise in the minimum wage. I can't imagine that anyone's mind will change due to this comparison.
8
You know, I'd be ALL FOR including tips into total compensation if it were the restaurants that were paying it. But it isn't. It's you and me that are paying a hefty portion of their labor cost directly to the server. It's high time restaurants bucked the fuck up and started paying their employees a living wage. If it means you'll have to charge ME more for my Vindaloo, then I say FUCKING BRING IT.
9
A higher minimum wage does mean that wealthy business owners may have to take one of their vacations at a 4 star resort instead of a 5 star resort. 20% less stars. :'(

They took the risk in investing their extra few hundreds of thousands of dollars to sell massive amounts of alcohol and this is the thanks they get? How would we get so many violent drunks wandering our neighborhoods without their contributions to society?
10
I will rejoice in the upcoming layoffs if $15now happens - the lazy and the stupid get what they deserve

....and I will never tip again.

11
@9, you're a stone-cold fucking idiot. Most of the business owners we're talking about here are not taking vacations at all, let alone ones at 5 star resorts.

The problem with this so-called "data" is that, as others have pointed out, $10.72 is not the same as $15.00.

So saying that because a rise from whatever it was in California to $10.72 did not cause disruptions X, Y, or Z doesn't address the question of whether raising it from $9.32 (current WA minimum) to $15.00 will cause those disruptions. This is what I mean when I say "why not raise it to $100, then?" -- it's not a serious suggestion, but it fits the profile of your "data" equally well.

This isn't about data. There is no data.

Tipping isn't going anywhere. Tips for service is a cultural feature of the US that isn't going to be changed by a bunch of amateur economists waving their hands. And there are servers who would continue to make $30 an hour or more with a higher minimum, and other servers who would earn dramatically less than that, depending on where they work, what shifts, etc.

Those who say "well, they'll just raise their prices" don't understand how economies work. Raised prices contributes to inequality just as much as low wages do.
12
@11
Thank you - a voice of reason!

Be prepared for the wrath and bumper sticker logic that is about to come your way.
13
Those are not "snapshots of the data". That is a promotional flyer to help folks who are fighting the battle for increased wage.

I would love to see the data. Again, why not make it $20 or $25 and you would still apply this same "data". Numbers are irrelevant?

It is so simple. Take 10 full time employees averaging $12/hr. We increase by $3 to $15.

$3/hr x 10 employees = $30 increase per hour.
$30/hr x 40hrs a week = $1200/week
$1200 week x 52 weeks a year = $62,400

Double it to 20, you are looking at $124,800 and on and on. Only it actually isn't just $3, it is $3 plus the additional payroll taxes and unemployment.

I don't understand how someone can look at this actual numbers and compare it to a small increase in minimum age. $15 is not a small increase and you can't compare the two.

Lots of cities are just chomping on the bit to let Seattle be the lab rat, so they don't have to take their own political risks. We'll see if our rats take the bait.
14
"They took the risk in investing their extra few hundreds of thousands of dollars to sell massive amounts of alcohol and this is the thanks they get? How would we get so many violent drunks wandering our neighborhoods without their contributions to society? "

And now business owners are responsible for creating violent drunks! I guess when those violent drunks start making $15/hr they'll stop drinking... it is a miracle solution!
15
11- The people complaining the loudest about a $15 minimum wage are absolutely very wealthy. Did you miss when a few of us pulled up their house values (or I should say, mansion values)? The majority aren't fighting it because they're not sociopaths who fight to keep their workers wages low.

Yes, some servers make a lot of money with tips. That's because they're literally getting a tiny percentage of what the business owner brings in on a shift. The wealthiest owners have the wealthiest servers, who still bring in a tiny percentage of what the owners bring in by definition.

It's absolutely obscene that people like Fnarf think that the most financially successful servers making $60K without real benefits (even government benefits due to owner tax dodging with tips) is a scandal. Meanwhile, Dave Meinert buys a second mansion on the water.
16
@15, you have a low IQ. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't even know what my position on this issue is. And Dave Meinert is not the only person in this discussion.

There are a dozen small businesses within a quarter mile of where I'm sitting where neither the servers nor the owners make shit. They'd be better off going to work in an office and putting their minimal wealth into a mutual fund.

But the city wouldn't.
17
@16, mansplain it again!

Remember to people like raku, anyone with more than you is the enemy who's wealth must be collectivized for the good of all.

The reason they beat any businessowner who dares try to share their prospective to death is the negatives of *15now* inflation, higher prices, businesses closing, help their goal of punishing the man.
18
Why is it all-or-nothing? No one is saying "$15 per hour unless it's a tipped employee, at which point let's regress to $3 an hour for them!"

$15 an hour can be a lot for some businesses; namely coffee shops, restaurants, and very small businesses.

Why not tie the tipped minimum wage to the $15 per hour. Using something like 80%, we'd end up with tipped employees making $12 p/h + their tips. If their reported tips (those on credit card, and/or pooled cash) don't put them over the $15 threshold then the onus to make up the difference falls on the business.

Then if we maintain that the minimum wage as being tied to the cost of living, as the $15 increases over time, so does the tipped employee minimum wage, because it's an establish 80%, rather than a set dollar amount.
19
@11 right, anyone been to san Francisco lately? Its incredibly fucking expensive. From food to rent, the only thing cheaper is whole bottles of liquor (That's again to the brain fucks at the stranger who support privatization of WA liquor, fucked that one up big time, you promised a small increase in price and booze has gone up a shit ton).

The min wage hike will be another regressive "tax" on Seattle. It won't affect income inequality between the 1% & 99%, but it will affect the middle class.
20
@16: Which is why, as a small business owner, I will not engage in this "discussion". I want $15/hour now, because in the greater scheme of things that's not too much money. Also, income equality is not good for anyone! I went to Olympia to rally for an income tax. I'm not a monster, I just own a business.

But the $15/now people are far too loaded with $15/now, $30/tomorrow, end to capitalism say....next week? Wednesday around 3:30 good for you? Lets pencil that in. Anyone who owns a car and a house is clearly a rich asshole, so lets go ahead and put those heads on pikes next Wednesday at 3:30. Those of you who are not on Capitol Hill can go ahead and call the conference line at 1-866-NO-MONAYS.

There is NO ROOM for people who support the socialist agenda, and AREN'T DESPERATELY POOR. I wish there was.
21
Literally, all the arguments against $15/hr without exceptions boil down to one, simple assertion:

$15 per hour is TOO MUCH!


That's it. That's their whole argument. It's too much. We don't want to pay that much. You can show them all the data from San Francisco, all the history from when I-518 was implemented here in Washington, you can compare Washington side by side with every other state and show that tipping is just as high, employment is not lower, businesses are at least as healthy, and on and on and on and on.

You can answer their hysterical objections in every single way possible, and they'll turn around and say, "NO! Too high. $15 is TOO MUCH." But why? Why is $15 too much?

BECAUSE IT IS!

That's all they got. They're aghast at the sight of the number $15. That's they're whole, entire, argument. No wonder they're losing by 40 points.

In 1963 when Martin Luther King marched on Washington, he was there to demand a Federal minimum wage of $2 per hour, well over $15/hr. in today's money. Martin Luther King was not a clown. He wasn't fucking joking. He said $2 per hour because he meant $2 per hour. Today he'd be saying $15 now.

The real Federal minimum wage should be at least $11/hr. Factor in productivity, and it should be $22/hr. The wage King demanded, splitting the difference between 11 and 22, is more than fair.
22
I'm just wondering how many businesses raku and cthulhu own?

these two have to be the most completely brain dead fools I have seen on a message board.

the bottom line is this: the lazy and the stupid, like the two I mentioned above - would rather vote themselves a raise than actually, you know, earn it by working hard and using some gray matter.

I will LMFAO when these fools, and other fools like them, get laid off when the economic repercussions hit.

23
21 is Goldy..a Fired Stranger douche who is relentless in posting on the message board of the paper that fired him.

Not sure where Goldilocks is working now but its not for a small business I assure you.

And rest assured with that attitude he puts out he will get fired again soon.
24
@22 @23

You are the one who has something to fear when your real name comes out. Remember what happened to Mitt Romney? He was a dick to a bartender, so the bartender left his cell phone recording. Mitt then said what he really thinks, and the "47% video" exploded around the world. Mitt's name became Mitt 47% Romney. They'll carve "47%" on his gravestone.

Notice how it leaked out when the head of Ivar's went and admitted that 70% of Seattle voters support $15 with no exceptions? Notice how Dave Meinert's slimy, slimy emails leaked? The small business front for Burger King and KFC and 7-11 leaked? Leaky, leaky, leaky. You think your brother small business owners can be trusted? Who do you think is leaking your shit? Your own greedy, greedy kind are selling you out.

Word gets out. Mitt thought otherwise. Meinert thought otherwise. You guys always think you're smarter than everyone else. You think you can run your mouth on the down low and you'll stay ahead of everybody. But look what really happens. Word gets out. It always gets out.
25
@11 Thank you, Fnarf.
26
This whole thing has devolved into a raging mess of displaced anger. I suggest everyone just shut the hell up and see what happens next (like, say, a real bill or referendum, or anything other than a campaign slogan). Nobody's mind is going to be changed at this point, especially by trivial (and sad, frankly) name-calling that this whole "discussion" has quickly devolved into.
27
Remember this isn't just about restaurants. There are retail establishments, daycares, school districts, and on and on that pay some people less than $15/hr.
28
@21, you do realize that I-518 passed in 1989 when the federal minimum wage was 3.35/hr and so WA state just raised it to $3.85, right ? That was a 15% increase because you can't ignore the federal minimum wage and employers have to follow the higher guideline.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/…

Yes, Goldy ignored that part and pointed out that WA state's min wage (which hadn't been updated, like so many other states) was lower than the federal rate at $2.30 at the time. Nobody was getting paid only $2.30 though.
29
What the hell are you talking about Goldie. With all of theconspiracy theories. I don't care about any of that crap.Just step into the light and admit people are making some compelling arguments here and your starting to see the light! Progressive's Small Business don't want employee's to suffer. & at the same time I believe you or misanthrope stated we should just adapt to new market conditions(raise prices & discriminate by hiring more skilled workers) right!!

Not even your side believe the poor actually will benefit from this on the margin do you. Its more of a social justice issue before you move on to Rent Control then Millionaire tax ..then why is there no minorities who live in Seattle..

30
For those complaining that San Francisco data has no relevance and claiming that Seattle's increase is the largest in history, Santa Fe increased their minimum wage by about 65% in 2004.
http://bber.unm.edu/pubs/SFLWpt3.pdf
31
@30, Santa Fe took the min wage from $5.15/hr for businesses with more than 25 employees to $8.50 an hour. They also use a tip credit system (for employees making more than $100/month in tips) and include childcare and employer health benefits in the wage credit.
32
Well, Fnarf, despite my saying in another comment thread you're always correct, I find you're not. That should teach me to not give compliments.

There is absolutely no problem in restaurant owners raising their prices, because anyone who goes out to eat in this era has enough disposable cash to pay those raised prices, and they only go to those places in order to brag to their friends about how much they paid anyway. The rest of us consider Taco Bell a big splurge, and if that faux taco costs 15 cents more due to the wage increase, that's cool.
33
"There is absolutely no problem in restaurant owners raising their prices, because anyone who goes out to eat in this era has enough disposable cash to pay those raised prices."

And some more fine economic analysis. Restaurants can charge whatever they want and the people will still come. I wonder why they don't just charge more already? In fact this whole argument just amazes me, that we just pay people more, we can charge more and make way more money than we ever thought, and nobody will be poor anymore! So incredibly simple. If only all the business owners had go to SCC and taken Sawant's economics class.
35
But was Robert Reich ever a small business owner, especially one working 90 hours a week in the snow carrying coal to his employees' homes so that they could cook the elk meat he hunted for their families not to starve? Then he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
36
So... safe to say nobody at the Stranger has been listening to small business owners. It's going to hurt us, we represent the hardest working locals there are in this city. respect that we know more about our numbers, margins and bottom lines than you do, accept that. At least be honest, if you don't give a f about us then just SAY that, but stop acting like this won't have a crippling effect on new emerging business because you sound entitled, out of touch and phony.
37
So... safe to say nobody at the Stranger has been listening to any local small business owners. It's going to hurt us, we represent the hardest working locals there are in this city. respect that we know more about our numbers, margins and bottom lines than you do, accept that. At least be honest, if you don't give a f about us then just SAY that, but stop acting like this won't have a crippling effect on new emerging business because you sound entitled, out of touch and phony.
38
@36

The problem is you guys keep getting caught lying about your cherry picked and made up numbers that you pull out of your books. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Get it? We listened to you. You lied. Now we don't trust you so you've got to come clean.
39
It is not about whether a company will close or not, but about what kind of company will be left once the minimum wage is increased?

I used to eat $3 burrito for lunch in SF everyday on my route. $20 lunches are much more common these days.

15now claims to be helping the working poor, but clearly in San Francisco, the working poor have been driven out. Gentrification is a big problem in San Francisco and moving into Oakland.

Naw - not buying this argument either.
40
what was the PERCENTAGE increase to get to that Min Wage? because the question here should just be about the effect of raising the minimum wage, but raising it by MORE THAN 50 PERCENT.

raising the wage has an effect, but if the increase isn't too large, the businesses can swallow it. but to add 50 percent or more to every employees salary is going to have a massive effect.

this debate should not only be about raising the wage but HOW to raise the wage, if that is the what we think needs to be done.
41
brenden,

at a recent meeting in elliot bay's basement about this issue, i was having a hard time wrapping my head around the stranger's stance on this. when i worked there, the art director made $15.00 an hour, which is rather absurd. though most people around me were making much less than they were worth as well. so i guess i just don't understand why this stance is being taken by a paper produced by underpaid good people, many of whom i know.

then i was told something that really caught me off guard, and i do not know if it's true, but would really like you to confirm if it is or not. what i was told is that the designers upstairs are to be changed from staff to contractors status. this would of course have a large impact on health coverage, sense of job security, general morale, etc.....

could you please confirm or deny if that is happening?

thank you.
42
@41 raises an excellent question:
what does the stranger pay it's lowest-paid staff writer?

because i have worked in print media in this area and $15 an hour is a good salary in that biz. i can't imagine the Stranger makes so much money as to buck that trend by that much...
43
Why is the entire discussion about the minimum wage increase focused on restaurants and bars? Seattle is home to MANY OTHER small businesses that have nothing to do with food service. I work at a small independent art-based publishing company. If we had to pay every member of our 18 person staff (including the people who work at our warehouse and the people who answer the phones) at minimum $15 an hour, we would NOT be able to increase the price of our books to offset the rise in payroll. It's not the same as saying your vodka & soda will now cost you $7.50 instead of $7.

The fact that everyone is zeroing in on food service shows how little people realize that Seattle has a lot more to offer than just a fancy dinner and a cocktail. We're a city of art. The majority of people who work to promote the arts are not rolling in cash. Believe it or not, behind the "starving artist" there's also the starving publicist, starving editor, starving designer, and starving proofreader. We're dedicated to this profession not because of the money, but because we believe in our work. There is a lot of pride is working in food service, but it's not the only job in this city that will be affected by this high wage bump.

I'm not opposed to a raise in minimum wage, but $15 is just too high for a small art house like mine to absorb. I hope there is some consideration for non-restaurant companies.
44
Robert Reich is pretty much the only guy this whole campaign who has lent his name to a MW increase. Taskforce uses Reich Study...It gets repeated over and over again & recycled over and over as something new.

How about hundreds of Robert Reich's(economist) called the CBO(neutral party) what do they think. How about 500 thousand people lose their job. GOLDY your Cherry Picking articles.. no surprise there

Here is a question for you will an increase in MW to $15 lead toward discriminatory hiring/firing practices? Given the largest % of MW earners are minorities.

Soooo..Do you think Business Owners will hire the guy/girl from Bellevue/Renton/Kent earning $12 an hour(including travel costs to get into seattle) presently and would make $15+ or are they likely to keep their existing MW employee who makes sense @ 9.32 but does not have the skill or experience for the business's already existing $15per position.??

Answer that GOLDY??

45
@44

I bet you're one of those guys who moans that the workers today can't even fill out a job application or use basic grammar and punctuation.

Or you're a 15 year old living in his grandma's basement, who dropped out of school in the third grade. But then again, the guys putting up signs all over town saying "Shirt's cleaned" or "El Vino welcome's you" are "real live employers" just like you.

The flaw here is the argument "listen to me because I'm better than you" and then you proceed to wet your pants and drool. Guys who wet their pants and drool don't seem better, no matter how much they claim they are.
46
I find it just heartbreaking hearing from all the small business owners on here that're whining about their numbers, margins and bottom lines - and expect us to care - when they pay their employees wages that force them to live below the poverty line. Why should we all care about your numbers if you don't care about others? Why should we care about your bottom line when your employees have to visit a food bank to keep themselves fed after a long week of working on their feet, just to make your business profitable for YOU and your pig-faced family? Why should we care about your future when you insist on paying your employees so little, and offering them so few benefits, that they literally have no future themselves? When you build your financial future off the backs of your employees, you are stealing theirs to create your own. You're nothing but a thief. There is no dignity in taking advantage of people that way. You want to paint yourself as an upstanding member of this community who "gives back" and has something to offer us all? Support livable wages for ALL employees or go out of business. I'm an artist and I love small, local businesses. But I'd rather buy my coffee from a large chain if I knew it meant all the people who worked there, the people in my community, could afford to live and felt they had a future. What the fuck does "community" even mean to you people anyway? It sounds like a tagline to you fucks, like advertising jargon. When people can't afford to live, we all pay for it anyway through social programs. Needs don't just disappear. In an economy there are only so many resources, and it's all just a game of figuring out how to balance them between us all. And every greedy bastard wants to take as much as they can for themselves.

You all come on here and try to be as biting and snarky as possible, but have any of you ever experienced the desperation of real poverty? The kind where you can't even crawl to parents for help? Where you have nowhere to turn and no way out? It's not a joke, and it's not a tagline. It's a serious, debilitating problem with a clear solution. If you think it shouldn't be solved through higher wages then you're a blind, grasping, selfish, pompous little twat who should be dragged into the village square and stabbed to death; because you're a drag on us all.
47
@45: Yeah, you're winning over a lot of hearts and minds to your side with your invective.
48
45. you sound foolish
49
@47

And when I cite facts I get called a "moron" and an "idiot". See how that works? No matter how you approach this, no matter how much data you have, no matter how many side-by-side comparisons demolish the FUD, they come back and deny, deny, deny. And when they run out of reasons to deny, then they call you an idiot and a moron. All the while ending sentences with .?? [sic] and writing gobbledygook sentences like "How about hundreds of Robert Reich's(economist) called the CBO(neutral party) what do they think." What the fuck did homie just say?

It's bullshit. These phony business owners are spewing lies, and making appalling personal attacks on everyone, not just me. They lie about Sawant, about Goldy, about Dominic Holden. And not just the business owners aghast at the number 15. Listen to how Fnarf attacks people.

Disgusting.

And you come along to whisper "tut tut, you're not going to win hearts and minds if you're not sweet!" Fuck that.
50
AND this idiot thinks I'm Goldy.

@48

Yeah, I'm foolish. Along with Holden, who is the one who caught the front small businesses working for Yum! Brands. And Holden again when he caught Meinert sleazing around. And all other the readers who caught Friedman lying. That wasn't me, you know. They're all foolish too. And that Robert Reich. Foolish! Who is that guy anyway? And Martin Luther King. What does some dead guy know about running a business!

Please. You think you can try to make this personal? About me? All it shows is how angry you guys are getting. The facts are not on your side and you're lashing out in anger, in denial.

What is your plan? Get people to vote for a tip penalty and penalties for health insurance because some guy on the Internet made you mad? That's your plan? The head of Ivars admitted in one of Holden's leaked emails that you guys know 70% of voters support $15 with no exceptions.

You have a really big problem and here you are whimpering about me. All the while working 90 hours a week creating jobs. Right.
51
50
"Yeah, I'm foolish. Along with Holden"..Leave it at that

As for the my point. You reference Robert Reich being in support of $15 yes?
I reference the Congressional budget office which recently published a study on an increase in unemployment nationwide with a 10.10 MW.. Get it?

Then my next point is that it promotes discrimination? you can see the logic in that correct.

No anger here no denial. Just pragmatic & progressive. I will spare you the name calling and leave that to the rest of the posters that are incensed by your bias.

Also the use of the MLK reference should seal the deal for anyone here that thought you actually cared about the poor. MLK was a African American Christian..You can neither relate to the Black community nor the Christian Community> so dont reference that any longer due to his position on the Minimum Wage.
52
This is my premise.Just so "goldy" doesn't try spin his narrative

Lower skilled workers will get replaced with higher skilled workers @ $15..That doesnt mean higher unemployment for Seattle it means higher unemployment for poor people and by in large minorities in Seattle.

Right now a large percentage of MW employee's are minority and in poverty. I think Taxing the Rich more(State income tax) is way more progressive and does less damage to minorities and small business owners. 15now is going to be a failure.
53
I find it just heartbreaking hearing from all the small business owners on here that're whining about their numbers, margins and bottom lines - and expect us to care - when they pay their employees wages that force them to live below the poverty line. Why should we all care about your numbers if you don't care about others? Why should we care about your bottom line when your employees have to visit a food bank to keep themselves fed after a long week of working on their feet, just to make your business profitable for YOU and your pig-faced family? Why should we care about your future when you insist on paying your employees so little, and offering them so few benefits, that they literally have no future themselves? When you build your financial future off the backs of your employees, you are stealing theirs to create your own. You're nothing but a thief. There is no dignity in taking advantage of people that way. You want to paint yourself as an upstanding member of this community who "gives back" and has something to offer us all? Support livable wages for ALL employees or go out of business. I'm an artist and I love small, local businesses. But I'd rather buy my coffee from a large chain if I knew it meant all the people who worked there, the people in my community, could afford to live and felt they had a future. What the fuck does "community" even mean to you people anyway? It sounds like a tagline to you fucks, like advertising jargon. When people can't afford to live, we all pay for it anyway through social programs. Needs don't just disappear. In an economy there are only so many resources, and it's all just a game of figuring out how to balance them between us all. And every greedy bastard wants to take as much as they can for themselves.

You all come on here and try to be as biting and snarky as possible, but have any of you ever experienced the desperation of real poverty? The kind where you can't even crawl to parents for help? Where you have nowhere to turn and no way out? It's not a joke, and it's not a tagline. It's a serious, debilitating problem with a clear solution. If you think it shouldn't be solved through higher wages then you're a blind, grasping, selfish, pompous little twat who should be dragged into the village square and stabbed to death; because you're a drag on us all.

54
find it just heartbreaking hearing from all the small business owners on here that're whining about their numbers, margins and bottom lines - and expect us to care - when they pay their employees wages that force them to live below the poverty line. Why should we all care about your numbers if you don't care about others? Why should we care about your bottom line when your employees have to visit a food bank to keep themselves fed after a long week of working on their feet, just to make your business profitable for YOU and your pig-faced family? Why should we care about your future when you insist on paying your employees so little, and offering them so few benefits, that they literally have no future themselves? When you build your financial future off the backs of your employees, you are stealing theirs to create your own. You're nothing but a thief. There is no dignity in taking advantage of people that way. You want to paint yourself as an upstanding member of this community who "gives back" and has something to offer us all? Support livable wages for ALL employees or go out of business. I'm an artist and I love small, local businesses. But I'd rather buy my coffee from a large chain if I knew it meant all the people who worked there, the people in my community, could afford to live and felt they had a future. What the fuck does "community" even mean to you people anyway? It sounds like a tagline to you fucks, like advertising jargon. When people can't afford to live, we all pay for it anyway through social programs. Needs don't just disappear. In an economy there are only so many resources, and it's all just a game of figuring out how to balance them between us all. And every greedy bastard wants to take as much as they can for themselves.

You all come on here and try to be as biting and snarky as possible, but have any of you ever experienced the desperation of real poverty? The kind where you can't even crawl to parents for help? Where you have nowhere to turn and no way out? It's not a joke, and it's not a tagline. It's a serious, debilitating problem with a clear solution. If you think it shouldn't be solved through higher wages then you're a blind, grasping, selfish, pompous little twat who should be dragged into the village square and stabbed to death; because you're a drag on us all.
55
Look at how much gentrification has occurred in the last few years from AMAZON ALONE. If minimum wages jumps to $15, what kind of impact will that have on the city's population? People will flock here to compete for higher paying jobs. The low income residents that $15now is trying to protect will get replaced by Midwestern white kids with Liberal Arts degrees.

56
White kids with liberal arts degrees are the majority of what you can find around here already, and are currently working those low-wage jobs. Lame argument.
57
@56 Clearly you don't much time in Mt Baker, Columbia City, Rainier Beach, Northgate, Beacon Hill, Southpark, or Delridge...
58
This conversation is devolving quickly into snobbery, and is based on a false premise anyway: #55
59
Do you really see someone moving across the country to work for a McDonalds or at a bar? C'mon now...
60
@51

And don't forget, 70% of Seattle. They're idiots too, I guess. You have a long enemies list. Must feel lonely.

@52

Well, your predictions about paid sick leave were dead wrong, but that didn't teach you to shut up. So when none of your forecasts of doom happen in Seattle, you'll learn nothing. You'll be back for round 3 spouting the same discredited FUD.

If only these job creators really would go Galt like they're always threatening. You guys never follow through.
61
Sloth Luv Chunk
Tell us how you really feel!! LOL
Take your meds man
62
@61

Making new friends, I see.
63
Jason, I think you have more in common with all these business owners that you would like to admit. Some (business owners or workers alike) have financial troubles that they are still trying to work out from the Great Recession and some have managed to already stabilize. I can assure you they all want to reduce inequality and are all looking for the answers. We are at the table ready to draft good legislation. We are more similar to you than not.
64
This is clearly an argument with a ton of intricate factors. What seems to be lost in all of this is the fact that it takes more than a $15 an hour full time job to live in Seattle these days. Have you all noticed how high the rents are? Food prices, gas prices, prices, prices, prices are going up. Why? Well there are probably many contributors, but one of the most spectacular is the boom and influx of the Amazon, IT, Microsoft employees. Rents and are going up to house all of these new "high paid" individuals. Most of us in lower end paying jobs are being priced out of our homes....I can't tell you how many people I know who have had their rents increased substantially in the last few months. People having to scramble to find affordable housing. People going to food banks has increased as well. I refer to people who used to be able to have stable situations working in food service or other jobs of the same ilk. So, what do we do? If we cannot afford to live here, who will work these jobs? I am not sure, living in a suburb and commuting hours to get to Seattle to wait tables or whip up lattes would appeal to most service workers. I suppose there would be enough high school students to do those jobs, if we are priced out of the city.
Considering, if the minimum wage would be increased to match the cost of living, it should be upwords of $21 an hour anyway. What are we really offering at $15 now? We are offering a better, but not great existence in this town.
This is also why the tipped employees are up in arms about the whole deal. We know, better than anyone that $15 an hour at part time is not a livable wage. If we lose our tips, we will be in complete poverty...especially those of us with families.
So, what do we do? $15 now is a great "idea", but not well thought out at all. It has potential to do more harm than good as it stands. I really, really want the minimum wage increased, but shouldn't we do it in a responsible way so that we are holding those employers who hold their employees in poverty (Walmart, McD's, etc.) responsible, yet allowing smaller businesses incentive to grow. There has to be a middle ground.
I am for a minimum wage increase, but as it stands, I will vote no.
The stranger needs to stop stiring the pot.
65
@61

Huh, Seattle91, you know who else has the strange tic of calling me Jason? marianbuilt. What are the odds?

Ha. We call that "sockpuppetry". Everyone knows about the corporate astroturf known as OneSeattle. Now we've caught yet another hamfisted attempt at creating fake online support.

How many sock accounts do you have at Slog? Is it embarrassing to realize how few people actually support what you do? Are you now going to run and create some new sock accounts to cover your tracks?

66
Aw crap, I meant @63 when I posted @65.

Oh well. At least there is only one Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn, you phony sockmaster.
67
Newsflash - 70% of Seattelites do not approve of this. I would actually say about 70% of comments disapprove. But you know that already which is why you posted about 20x in the last day> clearly because your not concerned.

Poll: How many people want poor people to have more money? hmm close to 100%
New Poll: How many people want poor people maybe to make more money but may cause job loss? hmm let me think

66. Your UN-intelligent & you poorly represent the opposing opinion. There is much better arguments for a $15 increase but you wouldnt know how to articulate that.

You also fail to see the glaringly obvious achilles heel in this whole ruse. Business owners will adapt or fail..life goes on..prices go up & the people in poverty will be forced to transfer their jobs over to the working poor and middle class.That is a fucking reality of this. Capitalism moves on and when small business fails big business comes in(Walmart, Amazon) and takes the place.
68
@67

Oh, so now Bob Donegan, CEO of Ivar's is an idiot too? First you deny the 15Now poll saying 68% supports $15/hr because labor's poll is biased. Then when one of your own guys admits it's true? You just deny, deny, deny.

Why? Because you counted comments on a blog? That's your data?

Your world is shrinking, dude. Everywhere you turn, you're faced with facts and you can't accept it, so you get angry and start calling everyone idiots. Even OneSeattle is capable of seeing reality, so you have to turn your back on OneSeattle. Sad. Lonely. So many enemies. Everybody is an idiot. Everybody is wrong. Poor guy.

Again, back to the Wal-Mart takeover. I've been to Kansas and Nebraska and Texas. That's where the corporations have taken over. Here in Washington, where it's $9.32/hr, we have far more diversity and entrepreneurship. Oregon. where it's almost as high, $9.10, same thing. Your claim flies in the face of reality, and everyone can see it.

If you want to argue that high wages lead to a corporate takeover, then show evidence that places with high wages have been taken over by corporations. It's called reality. Everyone has eyes to see. We see reality. You can't argue with that.

If you want to try, go get some data and come back and show it. You're spouting your Ron Paul/Ayn Rand version of libartardian capitalism as if saying it enough times makes it true.
69
Talked directly to kshama sawant recently.
She is in favor of a phase for small business even up to 5yrs with b&o tax credits. Sounds like your self proclaimed leader is bending to small biz. Good luck with your 70%
70
@69

Whose leader? Leader of 15Now? Leader of me? Who proclaimed what? Self-proclaimed? Sawant proclaimed she is the leader of... something? Leader of what exactly? Can you cite this proclamation of which you speak? What am I saying? You never cite anything. You just spew opinions and pull your own hair out when everyone doesn't nod in unison, all because you claim to be an employer.

You need to come out of the closet. Are you Linda Derschang? LInda's favorite book is Atlas Shrugged, is all. You seem like an Atlas Shrugged kind of gal.

Kshama Sawant is a Seattle City Council member. That's all.
71
Initiative 518
Shall the state minimum wage increase from $2.30 to $3.85 (January 1, 1989) and then to $4.25 (January 1, 1990) and include agricultural workers?

Initiative 518 = 85 percent increase in the state minimum wage over two years, it did not include using tips to pay a work's own wages.

SIMPLE, enforceable. 15 bucks, Do it now. We will all be better off, just like after I518
72
"Posted by A real live employer"
I love your insane, nonsensical rants but they are all too frequently incomplete sentences and mostly incomprehensible to the reader. That is just the grammar, never mind the cockamemei trains of thought that are impossible to follow. Maybe I'm one of a very small handful of readers that still make an effort to read your posts, but keep up the ranting. It is endlessly entertaining.

your
pronoun
1.
(a form of the possessive case of you used as an attributive adjective): Your jacket is in that closet. I like your idea. Compare yours.
2.
one's (used to indicate that one belonging to oneself or to any person): The consulate is your best source of information. As you go down the hill, the library is on your left.
3.
(used informally to indicate all members of a group, occupation, etc., or things of a particular type): Take your factory worker, for instance. Your power brakes don't need that much servicing.
Origin:
before 900; Middle English; Old English ēower (genitive of gē ye1 ); cognate with German euer

Can be confused: yore, your, you're.

you're
contraction of you are: You're certain that's right?
Can be confused: yore, your, you're.

I hope this helps A real live employer.
I do have to wonder how well you are able to communicate with those employees.

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