Comments

1
Of course they don't hate us--they just wish that we would please-please-please go back to Fire Island, or Cloud Cuckoo Land, or Los Angeles, or wherever it is that we hummuhseckshals spring from.
2
It's called a dowsing rod, mister Editor.
3
The thing that really gets me about these anti-discrimination laws is that they're pretty much toothless; All this woman would have to do in order to get around it is say, "Sorry- I'm already booked for that weekend." But no, she is either too stupid or too sanctimonious to turn down the business without making gay customers feel shitty and dejected in the process... So I say if people like her want to go out of their way to wrap the rope around their own necks, they deserve to hang.
4
As somebody who grew up watching Christians repeatedly using the states to write discrimination into the law books, it's animus. God hates fags. The problem is, we exist and have rights. And they keep getting shut down because America is greater than their myths and superstitions. And if you don't stand up for your rights, you lose them. And no, forcing your religion on the public is not a right.
5
I personally would want a photographer who likes me and will therefore take pictures that are as flattering as possible.
6
@3,

That's the case with discrimination that's less socially accepted these days. Black people still have a really hard time finding homes to rent and gainful employment because it's very easy to just throw the application of someone with a stereotypically black name in the trash or coming up with some excuse for why another applicant got the apartment/job. Only particularly stupid bigots or bigots who want to be martyred get punished for discrimination.
7
I think it is worth noting that the gay couple who is refused service are not the people who bring legal action in these cases. The legal action is brought by the city, county or state when they enforce their non-discrimination laws. The bakery was not sued by a gay couple, it was charged with a crime by the state.
8
@2) Indeed it is. Thank you and fixed.
9
1. An 'evangelical florist' should --in a perfect world-- be a person who goes about evangelizing for the glory of flowers. :D

2. The USA is a nation based on the "Rule of Law". The set of laws that are common to all people of this country are the only things that bind us as a country. We are not a nation based on a particular tribe, or ethnicity, or anything else.

Someone attempting to place their religious choices in front of the law is essentially saying that they want to secede from these common rules which make us a nation and set the terms of respectful behavior between us. If they are going to do that, secede, then they should just band together with other people who want to live in a religion-based state and actually secede. With all the problems and sanctions that come with such an action.

Also, @3 is spot on.
10
People face discrimination every day and most of them do just shop somewhere else. Most business owners are wily enough to be a bit coy as well. They don't come right out with their real reasons but will just have scheduling conflicts, etc. Someone who is an outspoken enough bigot to flat say they won't photograph a same sex wedding is an exceptional case and worth being called out.

11
The point is that people should not discriminate against you because of your skin color, religion, beliefs etc. It is disingenuous to say go somewhere else. There were seats at the back of the bus, there was water in the blacks-only fountains. Separate is not fucking equal. How long does it take for that to sink in?

Loofah Bill O did a piece that Steven Colbert ripped apart where he equated fair treatment with complete equality, "Shaquile O'Neal is taller than Bill O, therefore the richest 1% should control 40% of the wealth."

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/04/stephe…
12
@9, that was beautifully put. That's a wording that I'll keep in my back pocket for when someone whips out this argument.
13
Another vote for @3 being spot-on. You want to flout the law just so you personally don't go against your beliefs, you do it in a way that's not going to get you challenged by coming up with a plausible excuse. Doing it openly is evidence of animus.
14
@5, sure, so would I. And for me, it would be easy. I'm white, have plenty of money to hire any photographer that I like, and live in Seattle, where there are hundreds of wedding photographers available, almost all of whom would be happy to shoot my big gay wedding. If a bigot photographer turned me down, it would take me all of 5 minutes to find another one.

But what if I live in a small town that only has a handful of photographers? Maybe bigot photographer is the only one available on my big gay wedding day. What if I'm poor, and bigot photographer is the only one I can afford? In a perfect world, we'd all have lots of options, but sometimes we just have to hire the only person available, even if it isn't ideal.

There is no point in having antidescrimination laws if we aren't willing to enforce them.
15
What a weird turnaround this country has had. The government can now force you into a private relationship you have no desire for. Bizare . . .
16
@14 -- Do poor people hire wedding photographers?

But yeah, fuck these dumb, bigoted business owners who can't seem to keep their hatred to themselves. Throw the book at them.
17
Poor Sullivan. He's insufferable now; I hate to think how bad it could get if he were really as smart as he thinks he is. And I'll add another "yes!" for #3, stressing the sanctimony over the stupidity.
18
Bigoted service providers should have to put a notice in their place of business, saying, "We would rather not serve LGBT customers". And then straight customers could go somewhere else less bigoted. If that's their business policy, they should own it.
19
I live in a small town with only one bakery. The next nearest choice is fifty miles away. I'll take a nondiscrimination law with teeth, thanks.
20
Is it bigotry if I choose to go to Discovery park and NOT watch the public butt fucking?
21
Weren't these the same guys who said we should be satisfied with civil unions and not fight for real marriage? Because that might ratchet up the culture war. What if we had listened to them?

What if we had listened to them when they said gay Texans can just move to California? Trying to strike town sodomy laws could have started a culture war.

Go shop somewhere else. Go live in another state. Go get a second class marriage. Get along. Get along, and they will surely leave you in peace.
22
@16, a poor couple won't hire a $10,000 wedding photographer, of course, but they might scrape together $500 for a low end photographer. So, yeah, poor people want nice wedding pictures, too.
23
So, why would you want to hire a baker, florist, or photographer who SECRETLY hates you? And what if there was "secretly" a disaster right before the wedding? ESPECIALLY the photographer, who could argue pretty convincingly that s/he is being required to participate in and watch your wedding?
24
Allright, allright -- enough already, I've got the solution. No need to thank me, this is simply who I am, it's what I do.

I agree with @5. Something as intimate & personal as photographs or floral bouquets for display at your wedding should absolutely be provided by someone with your best interests at heart and who is genuinely excited about the endeavor. So what if we were to allow any of these goofball fundamentalist denominations, and their adherents, their silly god-given right to discriminate... Then charge them for it?

Impose some sort of a "collection" (I don't even think we necessarily need to strip them of their dumb tax-exempt status, though it'd be nice if we would) to pay for the cost of bringing in someone willing to perform the service(s). These people (and institutions) always claim to harbor no genuine animosity toward those they refuse to serve, but rather that doing so is simply a violation of their beliefs. So why not let them adhere to those beliefs while, um, allowing them to play a small role in securing the provision of those services otherwise/elsewhere? Shit, they wouldn't even need to be made aware of when such a service was taking place, so long as the regular "contributions" were enough to cover the costs.

I know it's not a perfect solution and that there's plenty of logistical shit that'd need to be ironed out (and, of course, that there's fuckall chance of it ever actually happening) but isn't it worth giving some thinkenings to?
25
If you want to live in a world that conforms to a narrow worldview, that shields you from reality and that never deviates once from a singular narrative, go to Disneyland.

These "christians" are more than bigots, they're fools.

With the straight face of a born liar they actually say that they should have the right to discriminate against gay people because gay people's "chosen lifestyle" violates their beliefs and delicate sensibilities.

Okay, let's explore that logic.

Being a Christian is by their own admission a choice, a chosen association and a chosen lifestyle. You're not born a Christian. You choose to be. You're don't have to live any of the many Christian lifestyles. You choose to live your version of one. Christians even choose how their chosen beliefs will define all aspects of their life, including their sexual roles and relationships.

So, if it's okay for "christians" to discriminate against a "chosen lifestyle" that is not like their own, why shouldn't the rest of us be free to discriminate against Christians based on their chosen lifestyles, behaviors, dress and associations?

By the way, "christians," when did Jesus or God give you the right to choose Christianity as the belief for another person then hold them accountable to your judgment?

Sounds like your ego has displaced your God and your faith.

Isn't it odd how very few Christians remind you of Jesus?
26
Personally I'd like these businesses to identify themselves publicly but legally so that there's no chance of my hiring one of these fools by accident: "The law says I have to photograph your faggot wedding if you've paid for it," now there's truth in advertising. Not only would I clearly understand who I was dealing with, but I'd have the satisfaction of knowing that the business I wouldn't be hiring soon wouldn't be (in business.) Most weddings take place between younger couples, who are statistically more likely to strongly support same-sex marriage and presumably wouldn't be hiring this business either, even in red states. Even if the couple (or let's face it, the mother of the bride) wants to hire the business anyway, there are many people invited to a wedding and Facebook is a powerful tool for spreading information. What couple would want to hire a bigot and risk provoking a shit-storm among the guests that would sour their special day?
27
@15, it is not a "private relationship". When you offer goods and services to the public, it is a commercial relationship. We all recognize the authority of the law to regulate commerce. The people who own these businesses hold themselves out as public accommodations. It harms our society for them to discriminate in this way and our society will not allow it.
28
@15
A church is a private organization specifically formed and organized in order to attract promulgate specific spiritual values and beliefs for people of like mind.

A photography studio, a florist, and a bakery are all public accomodations specifically formed and organized to make money. They are not intended to promulgate spiritual values, and they stand for no beliefs except that nice pictures, pretty flowers, and delicious cakes enhance a social occasion.

If the customers--who also presumably like nice pictures, pretty flowers, and delicious cakes--share no other values with the photographer, the florist, or the baker, that is really not relevant to the transaction.

I used to work for a caterer. I can tell you that I attended many social functions hosted by people whose values differed greatly from my own, but my job was not to stand in judgement on their values. My job was to arrange tables attractively and serve good food, and to be polite while doing so.
29
Nina Simone knew this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVQjGGJV…

Go slow, my ass.
30
My question is why would you want to shop somewhere for services if you know the owner hates your guts, even if there is no other choice. There is always a choice no matter what because you can always do it yourself or have your friends do it for you if they are willing. I would never want the services of someone who despises me and doesnt want to serve me. that is just an uncomfortable situation all around, esp if its food such as a wedding cake. Would you really want a cake from someone who is being forced to serve you?!?!? Imagine what they will do to that cake or whatever it is they are selling, there is so many things you can do to a cake, you could piss in it, etc. So I disagree with Dominic in a way because there is ALWAYS another choice and that option is called DO IT YOURSELF or DIY and its usually cheaper to do it yourself anyway.
31
@30: Why eat at a diner that doesn't want you there, when you can have a tuna melt at home for a lot cheaper?
32
Sorry, Andrew Sullivan, but gay people didn't start this culture war. Now make yourself useful or get out of the way.

Please wait...

Comments are closed.

Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.


Add a comment
Preview

By posting this comment, you are agreeing to our Terms of Use.