Comments

1
Persuasive, well written original reporting with well supported scientific slant (pardon the pun). Thank you for this. I wish more journalism was like this.
2
Very interesting. Have you also heard of small earthquakes before the slide?
3
As long as we're on the question of logging, I have a pet peeve mostly unrelated to this article, or tangentially related at best.

So much of our timber is exported in raw form to be made into products that will then be reimported as finished goods. I'd like to see more of our exports be as finished goods, and more of our imports replaced by having stuff made here.

Unregulated, capitalistic free enterprise results in maximization of profits, sometimes in sacrifice of potential benefits of industry and economy. Exporting raw materials and importing finished goods is the earmark of a colony, or a third-world country. Our timber is not just a natural resource, but an economic one. With import duties for finished goods and an export tax on raw materials, more finishing and manufacturing could be shifted to our own shores, increasing employment and GDP.

Tearing up our forests for the few pennies in lease fees the state gets, just doesn't seem like enough benefit. If it resulted in more millwork, employment, and industrial investment in factories, then we'd be talking.

Even then, though, harvesting timber has to be done intelligently, if we want to continue to safely occupy the land.
4
Nice reporting, Brendan. Thanks for this.
5
@3 Are you will to pay triple the price for furniture and other finished wood products? It's all so easy to say until you get the bill.
6
It's the silt and clay composition of that slope that really shocked me. The Cascade foothills have always seemed to me to be full of massive glacial boulders: you see them all over the place. The exposed Oso hillside looks like there wasn't anything more substantial than a pebble in it.
Sounds like soil composition is just one of the many factors ignored in our logging permit process.
7
Lots of good stuff in there, but your lede is really "...any logging application not acted on in 30 days is automatically approved..."
8
the logging permit system is the way it is because the legislature does/has done what the timber industry wants. now, those laws are cemented in place, no matter how antiquated or inadequate.

does anyone remember the debacle that ensued when VP al gore tried to reform the 1872 mining and grazing laws?
9
Thanks for getting this story out . It's very important! With the effects of climate change, large rain events will become more frequent, which will also likely make tragedies like this more common in the future. We should be doing more to understand the causes and what we can do now to mitigate the risk of similar events.
10
@1 What he said. This is really good reporting!
12
How about we replace the "patchwork of regulations" with this: Do whatever you want on your private property, as long as you're not causing anyone direct physical harm or committing fraud. If someone thinks they've been damaged by activity on private property, let them make their case in court.

It seems grossly unfair to make property owners comply with regulations that logging critics themselves admit are "confusing", "patchwork", and "shifting".
13
For me is too soon to think about the politics while searches are still happening. For one thing it doesn't give everybody a fair shake in the debate... the locals have more pressing issues.
14
@12 It seems grossly unfair to force private citizens to spend their own time and money in court in order to remedy harm that has been caused by irresponsible property owners.

That is why we have laws and regulations, no matter how "confusing" or "shifting" they may seem to some.
15
@12: "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" helped create this mess, and virtually eliminated old growth lowland forests in WA state.

peddle your libertarian fantasies elsewhere.
16
Peter Goldman is certainly working to use this tragedy to his political advantage, which is not unexpected. I suggest that before leaping to to the conclusion that Peter would like you to reach (logging is the problem here) that readers listen to Dr. Dan Miller's comments from last night's Rachel Maddow show, who makes it clear that while it is possible that timber harvest may have had an impact, that impact would be minor. The primary causes would be the river's erosion of the "toe" of the slide area, stream flows in the area, etc.
17
@14 "It seems grossly unfair to force private citizens to spend their own time and money in court in order to remedy harm that has been caused by irresponsible property owners."

To me it seems unethical and evil to hire the government and their guns to do your dirty work for you. Got a complaint? Be a man, allow yourself to be counter-questioned, and spend your own money to get satisfaction, not mine.
18
Be a man, allow yourself to be counter-questioned, and spend your own money to get satisfaction, not mine.


Oh hey, everybody back off...Internet Tough Guy over here.
19
@18 At least I stand behind my comments with my name. Where's your credibility?
20
@19: People who comment with their "real names" don't gain special credibility—they could be sole proprietors, retired, callow youths, or trustafarians (among many other possibilities), and hence able to comment with relative impunity.

Conversely, people who comment with aliases don't necessary lose credibility—they could work in an industry sensitive to their comments (among many other possibilities).

But it's not surprising that libertarians, to whom all things seem simple, wouldn't get this.
21
*necessarily
22
Thanks Brendan. Keep digging.
23
I just want to add to the chorus here... This is excellent, in-depth reporting, something I love seeing in the Slog feed.

Thanks, Brendan. Looking forward to the follow-up when you hear from DNR.
24
Thanks, Brendan.
Next up: Why were homes allowed to be built below an area with a history of landslides.
25
@12

So when the private landowner doing harm is a power & wealthy corporation (as destructive private landowners frequently are) how would a group of relatively powerless landowners fight back?

Your supposedly more fair system is inherently unfair.

Besides, a system where the regulations are shifting and confusing seems to result in a situation where private landowners do whatever they want and damn the consequences.

My opinion is that the cure for ills caused by poorly designed regulation is better regulation, not no regulation.
26
@24, let's not talk about that.
27
@12, what court remedy could possibly make up for what has happened here at Hazel? The only rational thing is to ensure that radically dangerous land uses are not permitted in the first place. Every successful human society that has ever existed agrees with that principle. You are full of shit.

The problem with the area is indeed partly due to logging. But it is extraordinarily complex, as some of that logging took place as long as a hundred years ago -- this is no old-growth forest. And much of the problem is simply the geography of the area. There were slides here before the white man, and before the Indians as well. It is inherently muddy and steep. It also rains 90 inches a year in most of that valley. Did you know that Whitehorse Mountain is the lowest-lying glacier in the lower forty-eight? For another few years, at least.
28
@12,

Tell that to the people of West, Texas. You heard about that, right? Since that's the culmination of your inane political philosophies?

In case you haven't, the town was effectively blown up by a fertilizer plant, a fertilizer plant that carried merely $1 million in liability insurance in a state where heavy industry is not required by law to carry *any* liability insurance. The company also declared bankruptcy in the immediate aftermath of the disaster, meaning that those private landowners who you think should be forced to go to court to get restitution never will.

Are you happy with that? Do you like that outcome? Would you like that outcome were you one of the victims? FUCK YOU.
30
"Tell that to the people of West, Texas. You heard about that, right?"

I went to the memorial. I talked to people who were actually there, moments after it happened. Rescuers. They thanked me for coming, all the way from the Seattle area.

So yeah, I heard about it.

Doesn't change my pro-freedom philosophy. Why should it?
31
@30, your ten-cent "philosophy" doesn't have fuck-all to do with freedom.

And you didn't answer the question: do you like that outcome? That's what your "freedom" really looks like. You piece of shit.
32
@12- That type of system is entirely reactive (it only does something after the harm is done). It also rewards companies that destroy the environment, pay off their investors, then go bankrupt when the fines come in. It sounds nice at first, but like most aspects of libertarian thinking it is a terrible idea.
33
Ah, progressive statists. So "accepting" of others views . . . So "tolerant" . . . So willing to "coexist" . . .
34
While I agree with Peter Goldman that there are multiple factors that lead to the disastrous March 22nd mudslide on HIghway #530, I hope the people of Oso sue the shit out of Big Timber and WIN! The Washington Department of Natural Resources (DNR) has been a bit too lenient in regulating our state's logging practices. Clear-cutting is not a good practice, as it leaves razed forests vulnerable to dangerous man-made disasters, such as mudslides, in addition to the loss of the balance of nature, and photosynthesis with the greenbelts. that provides oxygen and cleanses the air. Lo and behold, look what just happened! Big Timber's long gone after reaping "record profits" and once again, the community irreparably suffers.
Here's hoping that this disaster will force state legislature to tighten its existing regulations on logging, and ban clear-cutting altogether.
35
Who are the Trust Beneficiaries?
36
@33- Wow, you're now acting as if people voicing disagreement is somehow wrong.

Nice counter argument. There's nothing like pretending you've got the moral high ground because you spoke first and therefore it's rude to point out how horribly wrong you are.
37
I used to do quite a bit of driving around the Pacific and Grays Harbor counties, and saw firsthand the devastation caused by clearcuts in some fairly remote areas, including a landslide from a clearcut that closed highway 6 near Pe Ell for weeks on end. Make no mistake, clear cutting turns vibrant forest lands into biological deserts, and leaves the inhabitants who are dependent on resource extraction poorer and less educated than their urban counterparts. The idea that we should fund schools using clearcuts is insane, and companies like Weyerhaeuser have been leveraging that funding issue to continue their brutal practices, even though they've been steadily destroying both the economy and the ecology and concentrating ever more wealth with the rent seekers/shareholders. The locals are resentful toward the so-called 'enviros' 'greenies' 'tree huggers' and 'owl lovers' because of the regulations that were passed during the 70's, in part because the logging practices included logging right up to the creeks, choking salmon runs and destroying another valuable resource extraction industry, fishing. However, much of the logging industry has been steadily destroyed due to automation (it's much easier to use machinery to log if you can clearcut), industrial consolidation, and plant closures as Weyerhaeuser shipped their plants and saw mills to parts of the country where the labor costs were cheaper and non-unionized. During my time in that region, several plants were closed in Grays Harbor by Weyerhaeuser without much notice, and a lot of jobs were lost. Whatever is left is barely hanging on.

What we don't want to confront is that clearcutting is stupid, that shallow root systems and lack of canopy increases the likelihood that the soil will absorb more water more quickly and be more prone to landslides, and that clearcutting also contributes to the continued impoverishment and environmental devastation from an economy that no longer is sustainable. You can still see the stumps of the ancient cedar forest that used to exist, and the buckboards that loggers used on either side of the tree to saw it down by hand. The trees were huge, and magnificent. Now it's just a graveyard that no one wants to visit. If logging were returned to sustainable practices (i.e. no clearcutting), the lands pried from Weyerhaeuser's hands, and the funding for schools came from someplace other than resource extraction, the forest might have a chance to recover to their previous vibrant state. If nothing else, these forests help clean the air we rely on to breath, sequester carbon more efficiently than any engineer's scheme, and provide opportunities to hike, hunt, fish and observe the recovered species, but we can't do that if they're clearcut every 20 or 50 years.
38
its also odd how people were able to obtain home loans in this high risk area. it appears the last 2 homes purchased on steelhead drive were in 2011 and 2014. in both cases the "seller" was fannie mae and both homes had just been foreclosed on. in 2011 it appears the loan was a VA loan . both had title companies as "trustees" stewart title and fidelity national title. aren't they required to research high risks as this? not knowing all details it did appear these also might be filed under predatory loans?
39
@37
couldn't agree more. The fact that some people still consider clear cutting a "sustainable" practice blows me away. As a teen/young adult, I spent time in the Redwoods in Northern California, protesting and tree-sitting and doing whatever I could to raise awareness to this insanity. When you are alone in the forest, and it is serenely quiet, and then that quiet is shattered first by the growl of a chainsaw, then the cracking of the trunk and the "whoosh" of a 200-300 foot tree as it fall to the ground (yes, the "whoosh" will make your skin crawl), I don't know, its just too difficult to put into words. Maybe after we go through the ordeal of another 20 or 30 mudslides, people will finally wake up.
40
Oh Once-ler, why are you such a Once-ler?
41
Thank you, Brendan Kiley, for bringing profit lusting Big Timber's major crime against nature to light. While the devastating March 22nd mudslide in Oso / Darrington is a heartbreaking tragedy, here's hoping that the consequential damage and lives lost result in a long overdue wake-call in Olympia to overhaul the DNR's existing wishy-washy logging practices for the better of Washington State's forests and surrounding communities.
42
@2 here's a great website to check for local quakes if you're interested!

http://www.pnsn.org/earthquakes/recent
43
@37 & @39: I couldn't agree more. Spot on, both of you! The corporate insanity of clearcutting must stop NOW, or we can only witness more devastating mudslides like the 03/22/14 manmade disaster in Snohomish County that just wiped out Oso, and claimed 22 lives along the S 530 floodplain, only worse with the increase of global warming from now on.
44
if i read the front page headline on the Times correctly, DNR was using an assessment map from 1988 for their current logging standards. WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!
45
In spite of the praise for this article, it is actually NOT very well written. Some examples:

1) Watershed Analysis Units do not allow more permissive logging. This is a lie Goldman is telling; he surely must know better. WAU's are done in areas where NO logging is allowed under the current regulations without additional study...thus the WAU. At best, the WAU will allow logging up to the current regulations, but likely will restrict it more in some way.

2) The description that the forest practice rules have only been in effect since 1975 is written to make it seem irresponsible. Actually, Washington and Oregon were pioneers in writing forest practice rules...many states in the country still do not have ANY.

3) Saying the rules are constantly changing without mentioning that that is because they are constantly getting MORE RESTRICTIVE is just irresponsible journalism.

4) The author doesn't mention that the Riley Rotor timber sale is a partial cut, a.k.a. a "thinning." The author probably doesn't know this, probably doesn't understand what it means, probably doesn't understand the complexity of the operation or the processes the DNR went through to implement the sale...and all this illustrates the author is not (yet) qualified to be writing articles like this in the first place.

5) Who is Geologist Dan McShane? Why are we not given a CV for this person? What are his qualifications? What sort of work has he done? Who has he mostly been affiliated with? To quote someone like this as a nominal expert, yet not authenticating the person involved, is also questionable journalism.

6) The author mentions that the Forest Practice regulations are a "patchwork of regulations" as if that is automatically a bad thing is just biased reporting. Has the author ever applied for a building permit or a business license? EVERY government-based set of regulations are a "patchwork." It's a fundamental rule of bureaucracy.

More critical thinking needs to be applied to articles like this...both by the author and the readers.

Please wait...

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