Comments

1
While I am pleased that the LW has kept her marriage whole, I am distressed that she has had to find sexual agency and is now, "mak[ing] decisions about what [she] want[s]," in order to do so.

Also, as a Bisexual man, I am distressed that Dan Savage has imported his Homosexual values into my head.

There ought to be a law.
2
Wow, just wow. When will LaBarbera and his ilk realize that gay liberation and straight liberation work hand in hand? I can't imagine how public acceptance of gays would have moved forward without the wife-swapping, swinging nudists of the 60's & 70's. Likewise, how would adventitious straights have progressed so far without the brave ladies and laddies of Stonewall?
3
I have to comment on a very small detail of this letter, I will forever wonder about straight men who don't run out and get a vasectomy has soon as they are sure that they are done having children. I get it if you or your partner aren't sure, but after everyone is sure, it is so great! my husband got one when we were done with the baby making, and this whole big worry/thing to be dealt with was just gone.
4
Julius Streicher, who published the hideously antisemitic Nazi propaganda rag Der Sturmer, was condemned and executed for crimes against humanity by the Nuremberg court. Lively and LaBarbera would do well to remember that, and so would the rest of us. Instigation is a form of culpability. The blood of Uganda's gays is on their hands and we should do justice.
5
Dan, I don't normally like the saying "haters gonna hate," but in this case, it's accurate. You do far more good than harm (witness this letter), but there are some people you're just never going to reach. While it's sickening that they have such reach and influence, try to tune them out. Unless you think you have grounds to sue for libel. I realize that you're a public figure, but your husband and your son are not. So maybe Terry has grounds. Slap those bastards with a lawsuit, if you can, then just focus on the positive things you can do for others.
6
@3: Agreed. I won't get one as soon as we're done just because I won't know that we're done, but once we've AGREED that we're done? Snip snip already!
7
Any man who has had a vasectomy gets triple nookie points from me. No, saying you are willing to get a vasectomy at some unspecified point in the future does NOT count.
8
well. alcohol and adultery. what could go wrong?

NOTHING!!

she has been ECSTATIC for, what, TWO whole weeks?!

Danny! you are a GENIUS!

and FOOT RUBBING? O.M.F.G.....
9
what attack on your "family", Danny?

three-ways? not true?

are you ashamed of the adultery you advocate?

(did the HATERS mention the doorknob licking?
it adds such a humanizing touch...)

Did they credit you with "monogamishit"? no? sue their asses...

don't be shy. or buttsore. embrace the slut.

10
It has been my experience as a woman who has had more than one partner who's had a vasectomy (some of whom had the procedure while we were together, which gave me a "before and after" data point), and that of my friends who've had vasectomies or whose husbands have had vasectomies, that post-v, the man can last a lot longer. I don't know why and I don't think there's anything in the medical literature that supports or accounts for this, but I have a bunch of anecdotal evidence.

Plus, no hormonal bc to mess with women's libidos, no pain-in-the-neck condoms, and no worries or fears about accidental pregnancy. Sex becomes much better. MUCH.
11
I was already eagerly engaging in these "radical promiscuous values" in a heterosexual way before I'd ever heard of Dan. After I started following Dan and The Stranger, I did find more support (and another venue or two) to engage in them, though.
12
"less sexually restrictive" relationships.

definitely the cure for what ails society.

why didn't someone think of it sooner?

fuck skipping to Gommorah. SPRINT!
13
10

and the best part is how well vasectomies protect against STDs.
dumbass.
14
10

isn't it true that most men who have been with you have been inspired to run right out for a vasectomy?
15
but Danny, homosexual couples break up more than heteros.

even the so preciously cute teeny tiny self-selected sample of affluent lesbian couples in the study you trot out every few months separated more than heteros.

could it be possible that egalitarianism isn't all that, and "happier" doesn't mean what you pretend it does, and less sexually restrictive (aka slutting around) is not the path to nirvana after all?

also don't use words like 'pogrom' if you don't know what they mean.
your cheap ignorant hysteria is an insult to actual pogrom victims.

16
It's fine for people to sleep around. It's great, even. Just be mindful of STDs. Some of them, like gonorrhea, are not as easy to treat as before, and it's always a hassle. Prevention is always the best medicine.
17
2

totally.

and without all that nifty decadence the STD rate would still be in the single digits. boring.

LIBERATION!
18
@2, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he's realized and is so worried about.
19
@2, you hit the nail on the head: gay and straight liberation go hand in hand and they don't want straight liberation, thank yew very much. They want it like it was in their imaginary, what, 1950's or so, when the man was the unquestioned lord of his manor, and get in the kitchen, woman, and make my goddam dinner!

That's what they want. The idea that men and women, men and men, women and women, four men and three women, WHATEVER, could be happy and authentic and confident and empowered, well, that just scares the shit out of them. It's not so much the haters hating, it's the fearers fearing - and that's expressed as hate.

At least that's this 50-something straight white guy's take on it.
20
"I appreciate the work you do and especially the way you stand up for children when parents are trying to make long-term relationships work."

what a delusional pile of horseshit.

children raised by their married biological parents do far better in life than children raised in any other situation.

and children living in households with unmarried adults are at much greater risk of abuse and neglect. just like danny points out in his gloating "Every child Deserves..."

adultery is a sure precursor to divorce. foot rubbing optional.

21
"But, finally, my main point: the husband's so grateful...."

No doubt,
grateful to have gotten a shot at a woman who did not "view his desire as another thing (she) had to find time for in the day."

the prospect of desert may make the prospect of slogging through tasteless gruel bearable but at some point hubby is going to decide he deserves desert every night and skip the bland tasteless dry sour offerings at home
22
While everyone else is sniping along about monogamish-ness (monogamish-ity?) and STDs may I just say that I found it puzzling but borderline amusing that she used the phrase "arc of our covenant" the way she did. Being a nice semi-Jewish boy, I can't decide whether she did it on purpose or not, but the play on words was striking.
24
"arc of our covenant" ftw!
25
I am a proud member of the V-club. It was an easy decision although we both thought we missed an opportunity for her when she was on the table after giving birth to our twins (they were/are kids 3 and 4 and when we found out we were having twins - which remains a shocker many years later - my wife said, "about that operation").

It is such an easy operation (though I will say my doc said I had a really large vas deferens that required a double clip before cauterization. So I had that going for me. Which was nice (I guess. Never really was able to capitalize on such a gift)) and I had zero side effects. And it has worked - still no kid #5.

I canNOT understand guys who whine about messing with their junk or that they would be less a man. It is as though they think that they are cutting out your balls. I look at it this way: if your partner has had children with you and, in many cases, was on the pill for many years when you were trying NOT to have children, why not ante up and get the ol' vas tied off. Way easier than continuing medication and certainly way easier than a tubal.
26
That the LW seems a bit of a pill only makes the case stronger.
***
Mr O, in the spirit of your post, you ought to be claiming that "your" Bi Ideas took root in Mr Savage and trying to sue him for plagiarism. Opportunity missed.
***
And parallel tracks, perhaps, but not hand in hand. Pushing hand in hand buys into binormativity, and leaves same-sexers at risk if the birth rate gets unacceptably low (see: Russia).
27
Oh, and I must cross-examine Mr Savage on what things "gay people can learn from straight people" with which we aren't all entirely familiar by age twelve, if not earlier. If that were really An Equal Truth, then surely there would be a manifest shortcoming in SS parenting that hasn't been unearthed yet, but I can live with it being the sort of thing one says to be nice.
28

Dan, a bit disappointed by your tepid response to LaBarbera here, especially if you feel your family has been attacked, and on a national stage. Other than the astonishingly disrespectful and dismissive 'supposed husband' and 'non-family' comments, which shows how bigoted, narrow and repressed an idea Labarbera has of what constitutes a family, everything he said is factually true - you DO advocate for straights being more like gays. You invented the term monogomish, for god's sake.

Every day The National Press Club airs on public radio stations all across the country + CSPAN. You maybe have a lot of extra/new people checking you out at the moment who have only known you as the It Gets Better guy, who have just learned that you have a kid and are in an open relationship. You have yet another opportunity to frame and educate about this, to a new crowd. Monogamish doesn't necessarily equate with being 'promiscuous' or 'reckless'. It can save and strengthen relationships, especially the long term married types Pete advocates for.

The woman's letter is great, but posting a fan letter is a bit lame in response to being attacked. Why not re-state your case and come out with guns blazing, as you do over so many issues?


29
28

because it is Danny's shameful little secret that he advocates "less sexually restrictive" (aka slutting around) for EVERYONE.

which is EXACTLY what the HATERS have said about him all along.

Our Little Danny would rather lose his nuts than admit that Maggie et al are RIGHT.

why do you suppose Danny is so oddly quiet about legalizing poly relationships?
it would fit in EXACTLY with his claimed positions on poly and marriage equality.
but Our Little Danny dare not allow the HATERS to say; 'see, the filthy homosexual pervert wants to TOTALLY destroy marriage!"
hence Our Hero's cowardly silent sulking on the subject.

when it comes to Poly our Little Danny is a Cowardly Hypocrite, silent in the face of Injustice he has a perfect platform to fight against, a veritable Moral Midget.

Our Teeny Tiny Moral Coward is EXACTLY what Dr King had in mind when he said 'In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends...'

so ironic that Danny is the same bigoted cowardly moral mutant he so loudly rails against.
perhaps his pet name for himself is ASSHOLE BIGOT......
30
@28

Why would Dan bother expending more energy than he needs to on these assholes? It would just be a pissing contest.
31
Our Little Danny boldly mocks and condemns when the "Closeted Bisexual Complains About Bisexual Invisibility"
but when the HATERS out him on his poly activity in a prominent national forum he does not defend his family or beliefs, he merely meekly mews and then posts this drivel from a deluded shrew.
no wonder Terry has to look elsewhere when he wants a Real Man in his bed...
32
Good Living is the best revenge. LaBarbera and Lively will only screetch louder as they are gripped with what Dead-eye-Dick called "the death throes of dead-enders". They are losing and will be forgotten. Take your satisfaction in

Also: vasectomies. While it does show a willingness on the man's part to take responsibility for BC, given that pregnancy is only one form of STI, it's probably not enough to really address what you have to worry about in a multi-partner scenario. Honestly, pregnancy is pretty far down on the list for me - so why get a vasectomy if I'm likely to wear a condom anyway? When we are done having children, I might consider this to relieve my wife of hormonal BC (though she professes to prefer it for cycle regularity).
33
I joined the V club a few years ago. My buddy is a lawyer and I used to hear all these custody and child support horror stories. Women were getting pregnant after a few dates, and lawyers and support payments were going on for a long time! I was getting scared to have sex with any girl I dated, because I had been pushing the odds for a while. I ran out and got one. So much less to worry about now! Girls love it! When my current GF and I had the talk, when she heard the V word, she said "right answer!"
34
Wow, Dan. I want to officially rescind, and apologize for, my comment the other where I said you spending too much time emphasizing youth pastor sex-offenders. These "family values" fuckers are making this personal for you. Attack back with Savage viciousness, we're on your side.
35
32
no doubt your sperm WOULD be an infectious agent...

33
right answer, indeed. because no woman would want to carry your spawn, for sure.

34
totally. its not like Danny writes books about his family or anything
36
Why are all the sex-positive people in this thread calling vasectomies "the v word?"
37
women can get a procedure called Essure done. it's done in the gyno's office, no recovery needed, no stitches. It is permanent so be sure you are done or never want kids. I had it done (no kids, never want kids) and it was the best decision i ever made. I get some idiot guys who respond with "so we don't have to use condoms then!". I just respond with "it doesn't prevent me from getting herpes, here are some statistics on it....." which makes their dick crawl back into their body and they leave me alone.
38
I've never wanted kids and selected for that in my dating life. Both my first and current husband are members of the V club, and I took the boyfriend for his membership visit last year. It was very interesting, and such a simple procedure!
We joked all the way home that he was a whore trying to avoid the consequences of his dirty, dirty actions. :)
39
31

Well.
You can bet your trolly ass that if it had been a bunch of 13 year old xtian schoolgirls Dan would have given them WhatFor!
So there.
40
39

Its not like Danny did nothing.
He was soooo angry he licked all of the doorknobs and toilet seats in the men's room at the National Press Club.

.

.

of course, he does that everytime he is in WashingtonDC but this time he REALLY meant it!
41
AFinch @32 As a woman who loves my BC pills (lighter, more regular periods), I find it weird that you would not trust your wife's judgment on this matter. Why talk of relieving her of something she likes?

spark99@37 condoms don't do much to prevent the spread of herpes, sadly. Or gonorrhea or HPV. Mostly they're good against HIV, chlamydia, hep B and hep C, I gather. Regular testing is important as well, and open, non-judgmental conversations about test results, and having some tolerance for risk.

42
@36 Spelling the V club or V word is much easier!
43
It drives Peter crazy that you & thousands of other gay couples are legally married, and that makes me happy.
44
@41 - I would consider it if she wanted it. Otherwise I have no intention of joining the club, at least not now. I'm quite happy with the status quo and if she is happier on BC than not, I'm totally down with that. I know a great many sloggers are very strongly negative on hormonal BC, but for many women it's da bomb.
45
@41 Erica P...I am not sure where you got the idea that condoms weren't effective at preventing gonorrhea. Gonorrhea is transmitted the same way as chlamydia (i.e. by secretions rather than skin to skin contact). You are correct that condoms are less effective at preventing transmission of herpes and HPV.
46
"All within the arc of our covenant" is my favorite sentence this month.

And I love the analytical jump from Dan's son to Dan's sex life with his faux husband. This leap always gives me pause: since when do any children of any parents know what are the typical, er, ins and outs, of their parents' sex lives?

Our side immediately replies with, quite rightly, the data documenting that the children of gay parents do just fine, and in some studies better than straight parents, in no small part because the children are wanted and planned for.

But why don't folks point out that it's inappropriate and damaging for any child to know whether or not mom likes bondage, or dad likes being pegged, or mommy and daddy have "man-on-top-get-it-overwith-quick" sex, or whatever? Whether it's the most vanilla sex ever of the permanently and righteously monogamous or group BDSM in dungeons, it's NOT the children's business.

I've always thought that this argumentative slip implies, ffs, that monogamish couples, whether gay or straight, fuck before their children! It's just another reason why these arguments are hateful and dishonest bullshit.

And I really wish someone would publicly call them on it. "So, Senator Vitter, how do you discuss your diaper fetish with your 4 children? Your diaper stash is a threat to your children! You cannot be a parent!"
47
@32L AFinch, I'm happy that hormonal bc is working for you and your wife, and don't want to suggest that vasectomies are superior (though I will point out that antibiotics can sometimes interfere with the pill's effectiveness, and if you are the kind of person who's bad at remembering to take a pill every single day at roughly the same-ish time, there may be reasons that a vasectomy is preferable).

But I take issue with you calling pregnancy an STI.
48
The attacks on Dan Savage have a lot to do with an early definition of Victorian "morality": the unending fear that somebody, somewhere, might be happy.

This is of course a great coping mechanism for people who are miserable but can't bring themselves to make the changes they'd need to make to be happy.
49
@45: I got that idea because I tested positive for gonorrhea a few years ago despite appropriate use of condoms. I've now also heard of that happening to other people I know, and my doctor wasn't dubious about my story. Mine was quickly cured with antibiotics but since antibiotic resistant gonorrhea is on the rise , it seems worth noting that condoms aren't so great at preventing its spread.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/15…
"Among 429 participants with known Gc/Ct exposure, consistent condom use was associated with a significant reduction in prevalent gonorrhea and chlamydia (30% vs. 43%)."

So, yes, condoms reduce the possibility of transmission, but a third of the participants still managed to get gonorrhea or chlamydia from their partners despite using condoms consistently.

The CDC doesn't address this directly but admits that it doesn't know how good condoms are at protecting against the spread of most STIs

"epidemiologic studies have shown that condom use reduces the risk of many other STDs. However, the exact magnitude of protection has been difficult to quantify because of numerous methodological challenges."
50
46 ... While it may be culturally inappropriate for children to be aware of their parents' sexual tastes, where is your evidence that it is harmful for them to know such details? Young children don't understand what they may hear or be told about "top & bottom" or "pegging." so how are they harmed? Older kids always understand that their parents are sexual as they come to understand their own sexuality. The ICKY factor is cultural, not medical. I don't advocate the breaking of boundaries but I do recognize that boundaries change to some extent as children grow up. Understanding that your parents may have some kinks goes a long way to reassuring you that your own kinks aren't so unique or freaky as you discover them.
51
@49 I certainly advise my patients that condoms will reduce but not eliminate the risk of bacterial infections like chlamydia and gonorrhoea. Effectiveness rates usually only refer to the prevention of transmission of HIV and pregnancy.

One theory is that an individual will end up with bacteria on their hands during foreplay, before putting the condom on, effectively inoculating the outside of the condom with bacteria. Oral sex will also play its part too.
52
@32 & 47: Years back some friends and I used to plan to make t-shirts the said "Babies: The Ultimate STI" and go lounge about the Baby Einstein, $2000 stroller neighborhoods.
Ah, to be young and punk.
53
@50 I was referring to age-appropriateness, proper boundaries, and personal privacy. I was not being anti-kink.
54
"I know a great many sloggers are very strongly negative on hormonal BC, but for many women it's da bomb."

I hapen to be both a woman and a slogger and most of the women I've talked with about hormonal BC just hate it. Still, some of them like it, and all together that minority surely amounts to "many women".

Peace.
55
I'm not sure if liking BC is a minority sentiment or not, but I doubt it's particularly rare. Periods are horrible nuisances, even if they aren't clinically OTT the way they are in my case.
56
@47 - I am, of course, just being jocose/tongue-in-cheek. However, since pregnancy is the result of a foreign DNA injection much like a viral infection, I don't think I'm actually torturing the biological definition too much.

@52 - that's just awesome.
57
@50: I took the broader point to be that, when asked how you could possibly explain your depraved sex life to your kids, the best possible reply is to ask how the asker explains the details of his or her sex life to his or her kids. And 99 times out of 10, the answer is going to be something about not discussing the details of those things with your kids.
58
How solid can "traditional values" really be if it's so damn easy to "import homosexual values"?

If the supposedly natural, universal, eternal, godly monogamous heterosexual marriage is such a bedrock thing, why are these nutjobs acting like it's so fragile? Don't they believe in it?

This is the challenge of hate propaganda -- hard to warn people about the seductiveness of something evil without making it sound really cool.

They're basically implying that gays have more fun, are more adventurous, and get to make sex a bigger part of their lives that straight people do. Must be why the "gay agenda" is so popular. : - )

It's really sad that these bigots can't just come out of the closet and embrace their true sexual selves. Talk about compensating.....

Please wait...

Comments are closed.

Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.


Add a comment
Preview

By posting this comment, you are agreeing to our Terms of Use.