Comments

1
Hear, hear.
2
Bullseye. Reality TV - for all its failings - has provided the widest - therefore the truest - representation of gay people America has ever seen.
3
I just saw Johnny Weir do an analysis of figure skating on NBC. I love him.
4
So they've disappeared from network TV and moved to cable. Possibly not entirely the triumph you're claiming, but point taken. Also, the quality of the show notwithstanding, "Sean" is not a slightly toned-down version of "Jack." He's an effeminate and successful gay man.
5
This is cool as well: it appears that three state's anti gay "it's ok to discriminate" bills are now dead, in TN, SD and KS

http://purpleunions.com/blog/2014/02/usa…
6
Oh yes, and as Pope Peabrain points out we also have the effeminate Uncle Tom Johnny Weir, who's being hailed as a hero for dressing flamoyantly while in the protection of the Olympic "ring of steel" at Sochi while calling opponents of Russia's anti-gay law (which he claims only outlaws anal sex in front of public libraries) "idiots."
7
@6 Yes, he's outrageous. Yes, he's controversial. But he is an out gay man and one of the world's finest skaters. I don't
believe we need to all march in lockstep or believe the same things.
8
This is also a good counter to the narrative that reality TV is all pig-ignorant jackasses pissing their pants and groping around in the mud.
9
I kind of like Looking. It's admirable for its subtlety--it's refreshing that a show doesn't hit us over the head with Big Plot Points or cartoonish stereotypes--but I agree that somethin's gotta 'splode soon if they're going to keep and grow their audience. I loved Weekend, so I'll give them a chance to see where they're going with it. Strangely, San Fran has a gray and gritty look that makes it appear far more like Seattle.
10
@ 8, why did people ever watch those horrid, trashy Kardashian shows? Send in the hellfire missiles enseguida.
11
Chalk me up as another fan of "Sassy Sam" on Under the Gunn. He's adorable and witty to boot.
12
Oops. Forgot to include that Sassy Sam's also really really talented. He stands a good chance of winning. Shame on me.
13
@10, the Kardashians, as horrible as they are, are far from the worst of it. There are TWO shows about hunting Sasquatch. There's "Hillbilly Hand Fishing", which is nothing BUT groping in the mud underwater, supposedly for fish ("do ya feel it, Susie?"), "Small Town Security", where the idiot woman literally pissed her pants laughing at a fart, "Duck Fuckers" or whatever it's called, "Swamp People", who wrestle alligators, "My Big Redneck Vacation", which I believe takes place inside and under an outhouse, "Gold Rush", where Dick spends all day looking for the Glory Hole, several other gold-mining shows, several different storage-unit shows, several different pawn-shop shows, several different child-pageant shows plus the immortal spinoff "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo", ad infinitum.
14
@13 You know WAY too much about crap TV!
15
@13 Thanks for that, I think. I'm sorry you had to wade through the absolute bottom of the cesspool of American culture to bring us that list, but my compliments on how exhaustively you've categorized the worst that cable TV has to offer. I hope you'll recover from the experience in time. Perhaps with counseling...
16
@13, Thank the FSM that I cut the cable years ago. This is what I'll never understand about big time producers like Andy Cohen: They have the opportunity to create intelligent and meaningful programming, and instead they make television diarrhea like the Real Housewives of Newark et al. It may pay the bills, but who could claim that with pride? Yeesh.
17
"Worst Cooks in America" on Food Network has a couple of talentless effeminate gay men on it; and it's cohosted by the talented gay woman, Anne Burrell!
18
The dearth of femme gay guys on scripted TV isn't going to be helped by representation for representation's sake, especially without massive retooling about how these shows code gender. When's the last time there's been a butch woman who isn't a killjoy or a looney side gag? Gender outlaws always get sidelined.

More interesting to me is the ascendance of underdog male protagonists on crap scripted shows whereby out gay men play the straight male leads, like 'How I Met Your Mother' and the 'Big Bang Theory.'
19
I like Looking. It's funny, it's subtle, it's not over-the-top-shock, it's slice-of-life.
20
@14, I just watch The Soup. Everything you need to know in half an hour, plus Mankini.

I didn't even mention the seemingly hundreds of "Bad Girls" shows, in which hilariously wasted skanks beat the crap out of each other an episode at a time.
21
My hope is that we will eventually get past the unofficial ban on openly gay contestants in the more mainstream reality competitions, such as American Idol and So You Think You Can Dance (where the effort by some contestants to maintain plausible deniability on their sexual orientation sometimes reaches Liberace levels of absurdity).
22
What about Modern Family's two gay guys ? Are they considered fem ?
23
Great point, #22. Cam certainly is at least. AND they're fathers, AND they're getting married, AND they're both successful, AND Cam is a football coach.
24
Love me a swishy man, and It's good to know that they're not disappearing from TV. With strong and talented fem guys on reality TV, and butch, counter-stereotype gays on scripted TV, and out gay actors playing straight roles...all we need now are some swishy straight guys like David Walliams, and the Universe will be whole.
25
Am I going crazy? Have we forgotten about Modern Family? Or does that not count because Eric Stonestreet is a straight actor?
26
Hey, Scott Thompson's Buddy Cole is Stephen Colbert's Olympics correspondent. Swish lives!
27
The constant passive aggressive belittling and demeaning of gay men who just happen to be average guys needs to stop.

We're not "heteronormative," whatever the fuck that still means these days. We're not "fitting in." We're not "butching it up." We don't have a damn thing to prove, and we're not fucking "camouflaged with masculinity."

We're just gay men who happen to be average guys, and we've got nothing to prove. Not a damn thing.

Stop telling us that we're somehow in hiding just because we're not "gay enough" for you.

If you want acceptance, you've got to learn to give a little in return, and telling someone else that they're not "gaying it up enough" to meet your standards of being "really gay" is just creating more pain, more resentment and more division.

Stop that shit.
28
@20. Drunken skank-fights, you say? Maybe I should get cable after all.
29
@ 18, neither of those actors were out when their respective series began.
30
@27 Well said. You should register.
31
Obviously, you can find every type of white man on every medium ever.
32
I would watch a broadcast of Jinkx Monsoon reading an upside-down IKEA catalogue. Proof: I voluntarily watched a show starring Donny Wahlberg last week, just for the moments of Jinkxyness. Worth it!
That lovely girly-man needs his own show, STAT!
33
@27: Most of us do not read unregistered comments, so I only read your very astute post because #30 said it was good. Anyway, you should register if you are going to be sane and rational, so that we can all see your posts.
34
@32 Jinkx and Kelly Mantle both need pilots---variety comedy?
35
@27: Nothing in my post belittled guys like you. The guy whose post I quoted probably should've left "heteronormative" out of it.
36
@27: That said, the idea that gay men who are average guys are stigmatized or marginalized is absurd. In certain academic circles femme guys are celebrated, everywhere else they're denigrated.
37
Unfuck Bitchy Sam. What a douchenugget.

Give me some Nicholas. He's not bitchy, he's cute, and he's a men's wear designer. Unf. (Though he can't design for women at all)

Though I would have taken the one guy from episode 2 that basically wore boxer-briefs to the judging, even though he lost.
38
@31, your racism and sexism is pretty piggish.
39
I watched "Sean Saves the World." I wanted to like it. I truly did. I watched three episodes and it was really awful. The first show was painful and they went downhill from there. The characters weren't too bad, but the writing was rotten. All the actors did their best with the material, but they couldn't overcome the poor writing. I knew it wasn't going to last long. I hope Sean Hayes can find something else, because I enjoy watching him.
40
38- Pointing out massive privilege is racist and sexist. GOT IT. I'm sure pointing out that a building only has stairs is ableist, right?
41
Thank you 27. Another regular guy here who happens to love the cock. I get so damn sick of people saying how I don't look or act gay. Gay, or straight, is what you do during sex, not how you act everywhere else. Fem guys are straight as well as gay. Butch guys are straight as well as gay. And every damn thing in the middle. Some of us couldn't decorate our homes to save our lives. Stop asking me about your color scheme because I like cock. Cocks come in a limited number of colors and I like them all.

Aso... Justin was 100% twink but effeminate? Looking is a good show that is getting better as the characters flesh out more. 30 mins. isn't much time to develop story quickly. Jack and that awful show made me cringe whenever I was in the room when it was on. I know, it help make America less afraid of us. But goddam, at what cost? OK, now my rant is done, except for one thing....
About unregistered, most of the time I can't sign in because the site tells me my e-mail isn't valid. So I post as unregistered. Anyone else have that issue? And why the hate for unregistered? If you see it's a troll, move on. Most don't seem to be trolls. Some of us might have something to say that adds to the conversation. Anyway, now I get to see if I'm acceptable today or if I am again destined to be unregistered....
42
Does anyone else remember when Queer Eye for the Straight Guy first started that there was talk about it being gay minstrelsy? That there was something supposedly wrong with admitting that effeminate gay men exist? It sounded like bullshit to me then, and it still sounds like bullshit to me now.
43
YAYYYY Today I'm a real boy!
44
Ms Kesh - I thought the problem with QE was that it greatly advanced the notion that our Natural Place in the Universe was to be Subservient to Straight Overlords. There must have been some social value in presenting the notion that Da Queerz didn't hate straights and want their relationships to fail, but they overplayed the supportive angle and came off as eunuchs. (The QAF takedown was bang on.) Mr Savage, whatever his faults might be, is a huge improvement in that regard.
45
LOOKING IS NOT BORING. Jesus christ, just because it bored you doesn't mean it is inherently and universally boring. I find it engrossing and relateable.
46
@36

Dan, you've chosen to create a competition between two opposing sides of your own choosing and declared a winner based on your own criteria. Your comparison and conclusions are akin to saying that gays can't claim civil rights and equality because they've not suffered the same or as much as African Americans.

I'm not in a competition for who has suffered most in life as a gay man, nor do I need to be in order for my experiences in life to be valid.

If you want to call my comment absurd, they're are far less circuitous routes to take, but they all begin with a detour around the substance of my comment in order to reach the intended destination of ignoring and dismissing it. In so doing, you prove my point.

For my comment to be rational and true doesn't mean that femme men have somehow suffered less or that gay men who are average guys have suffered the same.

Every term that I quoted and more have been hurled at guys like me to challenge are validity as gay men. I'm simply tired of hearing it, and you don't get to silence me by calling my experience absurd.

It's not necessary to demean and dismiss the experiences of gay men who are average guys in order to defend those who are femme.
47
I'm one of the few people on the planet who enjoyed The New Normal. It had both: effeminate and "regular," and they were fantastic characters. Andrew Rannells is on Girls now, and he's quite effeminate, but he's a huge bitch, which doesn't mean much because everyone on that show is (with the exception of Adam).

I also love Looking.
48
@30

Thanks for dragging my unregistered comment into the light.

Posting as unregistered is a personal indulgence, my minor rebellion against conformity by coercion.

Down here the trolls are all unmasked.

'We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - OW
49
I enjoyed The New Normal, and I even liked Partners a lot. Sean Saves the World was horrible. I watched like 4 episodes and I couldn't stomach it. There was nothing entertaining or funny about that show and I'm glad it's gone.
50
Love me all types and varieties of gay men, but I do loathe the swishy Hispanic waiter on Two Broke Girls, mainly because that show has gone from being witty and original to being almost entirely based on milking stereotypes. Han is tiny and Asian and effete, ha! Sophie is blowsy and Polish, LOL! Earl is old, cool and black, hilarious! Oleg is Russian and sleazy, it kills me! And now whatever his name is swishy-gay and Latino! The script has almost replaced jokes with set-piece reminders of each cliched characteristic, and applause as each archetype walks in. I'm really tired of it. Though I'm wondering where are the cheapskate Jewish nerd, the aggressive Irish drunk, and the surprisingly feisty old nun?
51
I loathe the portrayal of gay men as being effeminate and/or drag queens. The best thing about mass coming out is that people have finally seen gays as diverse and belonging to every spectrum. When your elderly aunt or butch cousin turns out to be gay, you have a different perspective. TV still promotes stereotypes. I have as much in common with the sassy screaming fashion designers as I do with the Fox News Blowhards.
52
@34

If anyone is brilliant enough to write a series, show or sketch with Jinkx starring as any or many of her more eccentric characters, I would watch it and drag everyone on campus to see it.

She could create a perfect, eccentric character in any number of storylines.

Jinkx needs a better agent and a screenwriter.

Why hasn't anyone revamped Golden Girls with a cast of young and aging drag queens? Imagine the possibilities of characters and storylines. Imagine it as a drama like L Word or Queer as Folk. ...or if we want to blend comedy and drama, imagine it as a musical. Someone grab a writer; we've got gold here, people.

Has anyone thought about creating a variety show with a cast of drag stars like a thoroughly modern Carol Brunette Show? It might even work as a web series.

Jinkx, wake up, sweetie, the world needs your genius.
53
@34

If anyone is brilliant enough to write a series, show or sketch with Jinkx starring as any or many of her more eccentric characters, I would watch it and drag everyone on campus to see it.

She could create a perfect, eccentric character in any number of storylines.

Jinkx needs a better agent and a screenwriter.

Why hasn't anyone revamped Golden Girls with a cast of young and aging drag queens? Imagine the possibilities of characters and storylines. Imagine it as a drama like L Word or Queer as Folk. ...or if we want to blend comedy and drama, imagine it as a musical. Someone grab a writer; we've got gold here, people.

Has anyone thought about creating a variety show with a cast of drag stars like a thoroughly modern Carol Brunette Show? It might even work as a web series.

Jinkx, wake up, sweetie, the world needs your genius.
54
@7: The issue is that he's objectively wrong about the nature of the law. His handlers/selfishness have kept him isolated from reality.
55
I watch a lot of Steven and Chris on CBC - where am I supposed to get my Canadian lifestyle and decorating tips during the Olympics?
56
Go team Mondo!
57
Glee is still on the air last I checked and Kurt Hummel is about as effeminate as they come.

Also, I have never thought of Ted on QAF as effeminate. He's pretty middle-of-the-road and largely indistinguishable from my IT coworkers
58
@42, I don't think people considered it gay minstrelsy so much for the effeminate characters. It was more that the characters partied a lot, did drugs and were promiscuous. Plus Justin was underage when he hooked up with Brian IIRC.
59
#57,
I agree with you on both counts. I never saw Ted as more than the boring one, not alpha gay like Brian nor flaming in the way Emmett was.

As for Glee, yea, Kurt is very effeminate but he has a ridiculously large straight female fanbase which my tumblr page can attest to, particularly after they had him take his clothes off a few months back.
60
Ms Em @59 - Well, that's just appropriation and highly disrespectful. They think that just because they are oppressed as women that they can get away with acting like the rich man in the Bible who takes the poor man's one ewe lamb when he has a whole flock.

Aren't there enough straight male characters for them? That they have to insist on converting gay ones is just reprehensible.
61
@58 - Just as a note, The age of consent in Pennsylvania, where Queer as Folk is set, is 16, and Justin was 17. A lot younger than Brian, but not doing anything illegal.
62
@41: Ditto. Plenty of effeminate & engaging gay men on TV today.... And QAF's Justin & Ted were NOT among them! Justin was an eager young twink... Ted was a geeky buttoned down nerd.

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