Grand juries are kangaroo courts. Point blank. They are proof of government tyranny.

@1: Aren't they occasionally a vital part of our justice system? The place where people are given evidence surrounding crimes in a confidential way, so that if there is not sufficient evidence for an indictment, the suspect isn't slandered in the court of public opinion?

That is not to say we don't need an overhaul of the system, but isn't that their theoretical purpose?

If you have evidence, present it in court. You can't torture people. This amounts to torture. You can't coerce people and call it justice. You basically rob them of their lives. We are awful casual about doing that. But don't call it justice.

Incriminating someone for refusing to incriminate others. The person who thought this would end well is really silly. If the government wants to go on witch hunts, if the government wants to go "door to door" so to speak in specific communities looking for "anarchist papers" there's not a damn punishment they could do to me that would ever have me consider "flipping" on people whom I might have met only once. The surveillance culture put this on themselves. They wanted it to be so large it could catch everything, and then when it doesn't catch everything, because it would be completely impossible, they freak out and want to hurt people to get the information that might not even be useful, well, lawfully useful. It sounds like to me the government made up it's mind, that someone's going to jail no matter what, it's just a matter of finding what happened was illegal, and associating that crime with an individual. Locking up people like Jerry gets them off. They have absolutely no sense of justice. Their only emotion they know how to use is anger. It's lazy.

It's ironic that the Fifth Amendment which is intended to protect us from being punished without due process of law is being used to punish people for not participating in the process of law. Rather than a protection the process becomes a cudgel.

The Judges' statements demonstrate that their complaint about the witness is substantially political. As misguided as I think Koch is, it would be hard for me to deny that he is being persecuted for his political beliefs.

@1

The FISA court is a kangaroo court. Grand juries are a valid part of our criminal justice system.

Grand juries are a way to ensure that before major charges are leveled against a citizen the government must prove they have a reasonable case. They're run, unlike FISA, within common law protections for citizens.

@4

There are rules against the kinds of fishing trips you postulate. This guy was subpoenaed because he likely had useful information about violent criminals who set off a damn explosion in Times Square. A subpoena, to be issued, must show such probability.

If your friends aren't terrorists you needn't fear. If they are, you should be telling law enforcement before they hurt or kill innocents.

And the state wasn't punishing or torturing this idiot. He could go home the moment he obeyed the lawful order of a lawful court.

@3

You can, actually, "coerce" testimony from a witness subpoenaed within due process. If you weren't a slobbering moron you'd see why. Often vindicating or damning information in a criminal case can only be gotten from hostile witnesses. That witness having some axe to grind isn't a valid reason for them to refuse to provide such testimony. And the only way the state can ensure this is with contempt of court. If your neighbor, tired of the stream of drunken orgy goers in and out of your studio apartment, refused to confirm an alibi that you were home when accused of some crime, would you support his 'right' of refusal to testify?

You can't be confined for contempt if the fifth amendment applied. If you refuse to testify against yourself the court will sustain that. Provided you're not a paranoid nutjob like this clown who isn't being asked to testify to his own incrimination. Then you are, and should, be spending some time in a cell.

@7 So even with jailing innocent people, you can't achieve your goals. How sad. Aren't you the same person who argues against government overstepping it's ground? They can't take away your guns but everything else is up for grabs? Who's the moron?

6, wow, I agree w/ loveschild. yes, grand juries are an important part of the judicial system.

but lc, dear, your faith is subpeonas (and other aspects of our judicial system) is naive at best. yes, in a perfect world, they are only issued with cause. we do not live in a perfect world. thus, your conclusion of "If your friends aren't terrorists you needn't fear" is the reasoning of a toddler. you should realize that the greatest instigator of terrorist plots in America today is the FBI. they create them to give justification for the abuse of our judicial system.

@7 I notice you had nothing to say about #6

"a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich".

@11

Gee, thanks for the, umm, agreement.

3 corrections. I don't know who 'lovechild' is.

I'm not your dear in any case.

Of course our system isn't perfect. That's why we have appeals courts, objections in court when rules are broken, and binding precedent governing the process. Like the Constitution it's greatest strength is two pronged. It allows for slow change within its own rules as that change is needed. And it relies on a thousand years of common law understanding and protections.

While law enforcement entrapment is a problem, claiming it as the majority of terrorist activity is unsupported.

If grand juries are so vital to our justice system, why have half of US states abolished them, as well as every other common law country that once had grand juries?

@11, you've mixed up your troll regulars again. It happens to the best of us sometimes. Perhaps the lesson for us is to quit feeding them.

@15 - Practical, not fairness reasons. It's logistically difficult to get and keep a grand jury together. And understand something critical; grand juries are a protection for individual defendants, which is why they are in the Bill of Rights. If you, as a defendant, think that a grand jury is a "kangaroo court," you can always waive it and take your chances with a regular jury at trial.