Comments

1
Respect the verdict and move on.
2
I hate to say it, but I'm not surprised.
3
How is that possible?
4
And contrary to what Raindrop says, I hope they don't "respect the verdict". I hope they burn the place down. Absolutely shameful.
5
And the 21st century has our Emmett Till.
6
It seems the laws were written to make it almost impossible to find someone guilty (unless of course they're black). Rather like the laws here that make it almost impossible to find a cop guilty when they shoot unarmed civilians.

Repeat after me, "I was afraid for my life". Now you can get away with murder.
7
@4 - By "the place" I assume you mean Florida, because that place has had it coming a long time now.
8
@6,

Even that psycho guy who beheaded his neighbor post-murder claimed self-defense and got away with it. So I guess I'm not surprised. Disappointed, yes. Surprised, no.
9
Headlines: "Florida jury declares open season on people you don't like."

10
@ 6 You mean like OJ? I am not pleased here but lets not overreact.
11
That is entirely fucked up. It's like the 1940's again. Fuck....
12
@10 - That was California, and he was famous. Not the best comparison.
13
Disappointed, but basically not surprised. Florida, with malice aforethought, wrote themselves a loophole in their murder laws that you could drive a mack truck through. Unsurprisingly, someone did.
14
I'm not surprised. This is Florida after all.
15
1, That's precisely what the conservatives did after Obama was elected, both times. They respected the will of the people and moved on.

Yep.

Sure did.
16
@ 12 Still a black man, yes a celebrity but if he was a black celebrity in the 1960s you think he gets off then. And its not like white men are always acquitted. With Emmett Till we knew it was racism, hell his murderers said as much. But here while it may feel like racism we don't know for sure. Not saying it isn't just we don't no for sure.
17
@16 - Oh, you're right. Absolutes aren't useful here, so I guess racism must be over, after all.
18
“Only in America can a dead black boy go on trial for his own murder."
— Syreeta McFadden
19
Seattle14 dear, leave race out of it for a moment. Zimmerman stalked an innocent person, and killed him. Even if Treyvon fought back - which is very much in doubt - Zimmerman bought that fight upon himself.

Ironically, if it is true that Treyvon Martin fought back, then it is Treyvon who stood his ground.

20
@15: A jury trial is not about who's the better candidate as an election is not about the verdict that is reached by a jury.
21
@ 17 I never said that we still have racism, but can we be 100% sure it was racism in this case.

@19 We can't go off feelings we need to look at the evidence, and in this case the jury had reasonable doubt that self defense was not justified. If you want to be mad, be mad at the state for not meeting their burden.
22
@19 Catalina, that's exactly what I was thinking, thank you.
23
What is it with this twitter feed from a self-appointed PC Angie Dickenson? At least the Kardashians had the good sense to name their kid 'North' instead of 'Lindy'.
24
I'm not saying (and don't think) the verdict is right, but is anyone surprised? And if you are, have you ever been to America?
25
Trayvon Martin's lawyers were state prosecutors, so it shouldn't be surprising if they sandbagged the job.
26
Yes, I'm An Evil, Evil Man, BuT I Hope Everywhere Zimmerman Goes For The Rest Of His Life, Black men Get In His Way, And Stand Their Own Ground. He Deserves No Less.
27
This is a travesty. Seriously Florida, wtf? How is this okay?

@23 - Raindrop doesn't like Lindy? That's a pretty awesome endorsement of her talent and insight considering.
28
@1, You're probably not black

@4, +100

Stand your Ground is a defacto black code. Any white or non-black person that feels threatened by the presence of a black person has license to shoot to kill that black person without fear of repercussion
29
On a gorgeous summer evening, the shittiest result possible. Fuck.
30
And, as a byproduct of the FLA statutes, the Martin family has no recourse in state courts for civil damages. That part is even more fucked up.
31
god knows how many times I've wanted to shoot an unarmed 17 year old and get away with it. Thanks Flori-DUH!
32
@27
ya know, I really do hope, and I'm terribly guilty of it, that this is my last namecalling. Namecalling is such a great Slog tradition, fostered by our dear Slog Authors, but I have to stop. so let me put it this way, can someone else just shout "IDIOT" into Lindy West's face?
33
I cannot believe this happened. I'm shocked.
34
When does the riot start?
35
I hope everyone knows that even though Zimmerman has been found not guilty George Zimmerman's life is never going to be the same. He will not be able to live where he is. He'll likely change his appearance, move and even perhaps change his name. Zimmerman did not escape from this unharmed. Of course non of this would have happened if he would have minded his own damned business and did what his superiors asked him to do and that is to wait for law enforcement. He thought he was a hot shot and could do as he wanted. He will pay for this.
37
Standing your ground only applies to white people in Florida.
38
I want Martin's family to hire the lawyer that the Goldman's used to sue O. J. Simpson.
39
there is a vigil going on right on at Cal Anderson park.
40
Stop calling him a neighbourhood watch volunteer. He was not a member of any registered neighbourhood watch groups, and even if he was, he broke two of the major rules set by the National Sheriffs Association for neighbourhood watch groups: never carry any weapons and never follow or confront suspicious persons. Zimmerman is a vigilante and a wannabe cop, who caused a confrontation by stalking Martin when he should have stayed in his car talking to the cops.
41
U FUCKING STINK ASS CRACKERS THINK U CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS SHIT? PREZ OBAMA : YA NEED TO STEP UP N MAKE THIS RIGHT BITCH.
42
@35, you may be a believer in karma but it isn't a logical belief. George Zimmerman's life will be just fine from now on, especially if he stays in Florida.
43
Whether he stays in Florida or not, he'll get in trouble again.
44
I was going to say how I'm not that surprised (well, actually, a little) and how this is basically legalized murder of unarmed black teen boys, because all black teen boys are dangerous, aggressive gang members, and how Trayvon would have been headed to death row if he'd had a gun that night and had stood his ground against Zimmerman.

Instead, though I'll quote these two opening paragraphs from a year-old CBS story that was brought up on Twitter:

"(CBS News) JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - A Florida woman who fired warning shots against her allegedly abusive husband has been sentenced to 20 years in prison.

"Marissa Alexander of Jacksonville had said the state's 'Stand Your Ground' law should apply to her because she was defending herself against her allegedly abusive husband when she fired warning shots inside her home in August 2010. She told police it was to escape a brutal beating by her husband, against whom she had already taken out a protective order."

She has a young teen daughter. Twenty years in the slammer for her. So I guess Stand Your Ground doesn't work for everybody, even if you're about to get beat up by your abusive partner or ex. Maybe it depends on who you're shooting?

Really, who are you allowed to shoot?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-5743…

45
What a disaster. I hope this stains you, Florida.
46
@32 - No, but it's awesome you don't like Lindy either.

Also, why would you of all people ever give up name calling? Your comments would have to be more than masturbatory fantasies for your Stranger/Slog hate-on. And if you couldn't publically stroke yourself into a blustering tizzy over stuff posted on Slog, what would your purpose in life be?
47
As for the people who loved Trayvon, all I can say is suck it up, swallow this and move on. Life sucks, sometimes specially if you're part of a mostly lower class minority. It's way, way easier to beat up on them. And racism in 2013 America is definitely very real.
48
@28, and the converse: if you are black in Florida you can't use Stand Your Ground as a defense. Remember Marissa Alexander, who is now serving a 20 year sentence for firing a warning shot into the wall when her husband violently attacked her.

Stand Your Ground means "it's OK to shoot black people". Period.
49
Old George will get a nice book deal and maybe a movie deal. He'll most probably get a Fox News gig as well. Lets not kid ourselves about his new earning potential.
50
Apparently Florida's so called "Stand Your Ground" doesn't work for black women. Huff Post just posted a story about a black woman who was sentenced to 20 years for simply firing warning shots against her attacker. The fact that he was her husband must be the problem. Florida has got to be one of the worst states in the country for this kind of crap. It seems to an outsider that if you're black in Florida, your guilty of something.
51
Chuck D on Twitter:

"MichaelVick went to prison for killing dogs,Zimmerman was let free after killing a blackman.All we need to know about the USA justice system"
52
It is interesting that the same liberal leaders and SLOG journalists, who used every ounce of political muscle to promote ME, have had little or nothing to say about this case.

I mean where is our inevitable madam President Hillary on this?
It seems The Coalition doesn't help its members unless there is something in it for them.
53
@46

What to say. You raise some good points. Aside from name calling, I make some ok comments, I believe. I've told jokes and puns on Slog, I once thanked commenter "rob!" (Where has he been?) for providing a link about the early scaly bodies of dinosaurs. But it's true, the masturbatory fantasies and the flustering tizzy you speak of is close to home. If you don't mind, could you suggest a few healthier ways to fantasize masturbatorily? You don't have to share your own personal preference, TMI. Thanks for your input.
54
What a fucking disgrace. Florida's legal system is a travesty. A black boy armed with Skittles is dead and a racist coward with a gun walks free. Disgusting.
55
How much suck would a headline suck if a headline could suck suck?

About as much as this one. [head-desk]
56
I don't really disagree with the verdict. The prosecution was working with shoddy police work and a crafty murderer. Reasonable doubt was not exceeded and the jury did their job.

I think Zimmerman successfully abused a really, really shitty law--that he was proven to have studied--and a top-to-bottom racist justice system. The parallel with Marissa Alexander's miscarriage of justice makes it all a fucking travesty.
57
Given Florida's barbaric, radical and anti civil society "Stand your ground" law, this verdict is no surprise.

That American Conservatives eagerly preen, and crow, about spilling blood all over a centuries long trudge towards civil society, choosing to instead embrace anarchy, is no surprise. After all what is Conservative thought in the US today if not anarchy of the individual over the State?

That Zimmerman was even out there that night claiming a right to commit violence in the name of the State is a collapse of the conservative State.
58
He wasn't guilty of defending himself, but guilty of putting himself forcefully into a situation requiring violence to defend himself. Legally I guess that means innocent. Sort of surprised.
59
Did NOBODY see how terrible the State's witnesses are? This isn't a backwards Florida law or a backwards Florida jury, it's the prosecution failing to meet its burden of proof. Even without the crazy version of no-retreat that FL has, when a defendant raises a self-defense argument, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not acting with reasonable force to violence or the threat of violence. The fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin without any good reason doesn't make him the first aggressor. The government doesn't get to put someone in a cage just because we think he's a racist asshole.

If the two men switched places, it's a lot more likely that Trayvon Martin would have been found guilty on the same evidence than George Zimmerman. That's racist. That's unjust. But it doesn't mean that the outcome in this case was wrong, or that the jury did a bad job, or that the laws themselves are racist. Black men and women are staggeringly more often the victim of juries who go with their horrible, irrational gut instinct instead of considering the evidence as presented in the case. Harping about this one undesirable outcome only dilutes the real problems in our criminal justice system, which are the result of unfair processes.
60
1) I've been to Sanford, FL before, and my partner actually lived (and owned a house) there for some time. That part of Florida has some serious racial problems. Pretty openly, evenly aggressively prejudiced whites and blacks forced to live side by side. So yes, there's absolutely a racial dimension to this case.

That being said,

2) If you want change, I'd focus on the "stand your ground" law. It encourages the kind of behavior Zimmerman engaged in.

And don't bother telling Floridians that you don't like the law. Tell Disney, tell Universal Studios, tell the theme parks and tourist traps how much you'd love to visit their attractions, but gosh, Florida just sounds way too dangerous what with all the "stand your ground" vigilantes. And that you'll be vacationing somewhere safer instead.
61
@59, "Black men and women are staggeringly more often the victim of juries who go with their horrible, irrational gut instinct instead of considering the evidence as presented in the case. "

That's what happened here. A kid with a bag of candy doing nothing but walking home was approached by a man with a gun who was told "not to persue". A kid with a bag of candy apparently tried to defend himself (standing his ground?) against a person with a weapon and was killed. The fact that if the shoe was on the other foot that Trayvon would have gone to jail is indicative of a bigger problem in America of black teens being perceived by non blacks as less than human and very disposable, particularly a community as conservative, pro gun, pro stand your ground and RACIST as Sanford FL.
62
@59, Black men and women are staggeringly more often the victim of juries who go with their horrible, irrational gut instinct instead of considering the evidence as presented in the case.

That is just what happened in this case. He shot a black kid minding his own business with nothing more than a bag of candy; a kid he was told "not to persue". A kid who may have tried to defend his unarmed self against a gunman (Standing his ground?). The view you expressed that if the shoe was on the other foot then Trayvon would have gone to jail is very indicative of a broader problem in America of black teens being perceived by non-blacks as being worthless, particularly in a conservative, pro gun, pro stand your ground and RACIST town such as Sanford, FL.
63
#56

I agree! The jury was correct in that the appropriate charge was neither 2nd degree murder or manslaughter, but 1st degree (premeditated) killing.

Zimmerman studied, prepared and trained for the day he could stalk and slay a victim with impunity. He crafted the perfect crime with the assistance of cooperative racists who he cozened up to a year in advance.

He was a hunter who awaited his prey in his SUV until Trayvon Martin came stumbling along like a gazelle in the path of a cheetah. He stalked and slayed, and when giving a statement recounted not just the event, but the whole entire plan from enlisting himself in neighborhood watch, to his list of unsubstantiated 911 calls to the eventual real kill.

Zimmerman is a psychopath, not a racist. But he set himself up as the pivot between racists and people who thought this was a case about race. It was, but not the killing -- the justification!

In that sense there is one winner, Zimmerman, who is the Last Man Standing, by dint of playing half the country against the other half and walking away unscathed after killing a kid.

64
All white jury
65
It makes me a bad person for wishing this, but I hope someone shoots Zimmerman, and let the dead bury the dead.
66
As other have mentioned, Florida's selective application of "stand your ground," as shown in the comparison between this ruling and the wrongful conviction of Marissa Alexander, demonstrates that this is no law, but a license for certain people to be able to pass lethal judgment on others on a whim. Florida is unfit to be a state.
67
@1: "Respect the verdict and move on."

No. There is nothing about this verdict that's respectable. What you are saying is that it's okay to instigate a completely unnecessary skirmish with a boy who was minding his own business. There is no way you can respect that verdict unless you are a fucking idiot, or have your finger on the trigger of your gun-slash-love-object anytime you see someone a shade darker than you who has the nerve to walk in your neighborhood bearing a sinister bag of Skittles and lethal doses of iced tea.

"Move on?" Fuck you. We've just moved backwards.
68
Just a couple of odds and ends here.

1. The law is not about "justice." It's about proving a case beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't there when this came down. I've still got one hell of a lot of doubt about what happened. So did the jury. Based on that, they did the right thing.

2. Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law was not even used as a defense in this case. They (correctly) felt they could win without it. Stop bringing it up as an "excuse" for why this happened — it's irrelevant.

3. Marissa Alexander left the scene, went to her car to get a gun, and then returned to shoot the guy. If that's not premeditated murder, nothing is. Sorry, that one's a fail.
69
@42: "As for the people who loved Trayvon, all I can say is suck it up, swallow this and move on. Life sucks, sometimes specially if you're part of a mostly lower class minority."

Why do I get this feeling that you love playing hackey sack and albums by Sublime?

If you loved Trayvon, then "suck it up"? Like it's a fucking smoothie? Is that what you're saying?

Maybe this is off-topic, but which character do you identify with more: Bill or Ted?
70
I guess none of the Slog commenters have been potential jurors on a murder trial. As the judges always state, the accused is presumed innocent. It is the state's responsibility to show that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If they fail to do so, then the verdict must be not guilty.
71
@70 - I understand the reasonable doubt part. I understand the state didn't make its case. I guess it just hurts too much for me. The implications scare me. Zimmerman made a decision to stalk a guy. He went hunting. He created the conflict, he pursued it, he orchestrated it. He's an enemy of the state.

I appreciate your points but this was still a miscarriage of justice. Zimmerman was found not guilty. That does not mean he's innocent.
72
Oh, oh, @42 again: "Life sucks, sometimes specially if you're part of a mostly lower class minority."

Yeah. You got any plans to change that, motherfucker? You have any desire to change that? Or are you just complacent and happy with how lucky you've had it?

"Life sucks." Fucking moron. Make life suck less.
73
All my comments directed at @42 should have been directed at @47. Sorry. I'm blind with rage.
74
But last thing, at @47 (correctly) now: "Racism is real."

Yep. It is. Got any strategies to change it? Stop "floating" and make a difference.
75
I was almost certain the jury was going to hand down the manslaughter conviction. I thought the prosecution proved at least that much. This was jury nullification.

@45 Indeed. Very much indeed.

@36 @65 If I saw Zimmerman, I'd be afraid for my life. I would, really. So should everyone.

I don't suppose there's a federal criminal case here? For violating Martin's civil rights, or something? Or are the Feds cowed by the NRA?
76
@75, yes, the feds could file a case for violation of TM's civil rights. That's what Al Sharpton is agitating for right now. But let's get real here — if you think Al Sharpton is ever making sense about anything, you need to reconsider your position.

No, the feds probably won't file anything, and not because of the NRA. Sheesh, where do you get these ideas? No, they won't file anything because their case would be just as shitty as the one that has already been shot down in state court.
77
The big takeaway from this might be that if you have the money to hire the best defense attorneys, they'll likely outclass and run rings around the local prosecutors employed by some small city. Even if a locality had the money, and even if prosecutors-for-hire existed, I wonder if the law would even allow them to hire someone to handle a case.
78
Unless you feel that Zimmerman broke his own nose, then gashed up the back of his own head, and paid off several witnesses he never knew, I am not sure how you can declare beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was not protected under "Stand your Ground," a law fraught with problems.

The prosecution never had a case, and never presented one. They were doomed from day one, and anyone with half a brain saw it coming.

It certainly is not Justice in a Platonic sense, but unless you decide that the rights of the accused are bullshit if the accused is hated enough, then you have to chalk this one up to preserving those rights, and hope that the asshole gets the pants sued off of him.
79
@65: Yes, you are a bad person for suggesting this. Vigilantism is orders of magnitude more damaging than occasionally letting the guilty go free. And vigilantism kills not only the guilty, but shitloads of the innocent. Your failure to acknowledge this fact means that you are not qualified to have a discussion on crime and punishment with the rest of the grown ups. It is ironic that you would suggest vigilantism to ensure justice for a black man when exactly that thing led to the deaths of thousands of innocent black men in this country. Unless you have some phenomenal argument on how the latter was justified, I would ask you to kindly fuck off.
80
@60, I am very familiar with Sanford too and I knew the day I heard about this murder and where it happened that that fat coward would get off scott free. I never for a single minute believed the women picked for that jury would do anything but let him off. Central Florida (and all of the South for that matter) is a horrible, backward place.
81
I knew he'd get off but I also know a couple other things about this case. I knew there would be no riots, black people are not in the same position politico-socially as when the Rodney King trail took place. We have a black president now, people know that change is possible via political avenues now. Also I am willing to bet that after this travesty we're going to see minorities seriously make demands and effectively mobilize to change this draconian shift backwards. I also know the minority population will win.
82
The sympathies of the LGBT community as a whole are with the African American community now. Lesbians and gays understand how it feels for the murder victim to be put on trial, and for the killer to go free. That the killer was found "not guilty" rather than "innocent" (as Zimmerman's brother has been braying) is no comfort at all.

Someone should write a play putting the jury on trial for racism. Nothing will bring Trayvon back but that at least would make the injustice visible, and would be a more constructive option than riots or more vigalante violence.
83
I think the "beyond a reasonable doubt" argument is just something for the racists to repeat to make them feel smart.

Take the color out of this: Martin was committing no crime at the time of this altercation. He was stalked by Zimmerman. Either he attacked Zimmerman in self-defense, or Zimmerman attacked him, but the point is Martib wasn't doing anything but walking. Zimmerman was the instigator. That is the only thing we know "beyond a reasonable doubt"
84
#81 give it a little time the riots still have a fighting chance
85
You're correct, Catalina. That's the only thing we know beyond a doubt. And that, alone, is not enough for a conviction. Except in your mind.
86
So I could decide to follow you in one of your unarmed moments, 5280 dear, pick a fight with you, and then kill you, and say it was self-defense?

Don't worry, I won't do it. Slog wouldn't be the same without you. Besides, me + a firearm = ridiculous.
87
@83: The fact that Zimmerman likely profiled Martin doesn't make him a murderer. The fact that he followed Martin for no good reason, despite the 911 operator's instructions, doesn't make him a murderer. Even confronting Martin wouldn't have made him a murderer. The jury wasn't convinced that Zimmerman was the first person to act violently, and that's why he was found not guilty.

But yeah, go ahead and write people off as racist for thinking that the government shouldn't get to put a man in prison based on a gut feeling we get from reading the news. That's a lot easier and probably more satisfying. And don't forget to tune in to the Nancy Grace show!
88
Um, I don't have any unarmed moments. But yes, if you were reasonably in fear for your life, that would be legal.
89
@ Paul Pearson:

Bill.

Actually, I've never seen the movie, and I'm not coordinated enough to play hackey sack. I do like Sublime, though.

I do find it amusing that you think I've been "lucky" in life. That one's pretty funny. Well, I have perfect health and I'm fairly good looking (ha!), so maybe I have been "lucky" in life. You can't put a price on good health!

As for leaving it to me to change the ills of the world (such a noble thought), let me turn it back on you. What are YOU doing to eliminate racism? What are your plans for changing human nature? Hmm... Sign me up when you get your campaign going.
90
"Police in Sanford, meanwhile, said they will return the Kel-Tec 9mm pistol used to kill Trayvon Martin to George Zimmerman."

— The Christian Science Monitor
91
@87, I just want to say that considering the facts of the case and the politics and culture of Sanford, this was not a nice, neat and sterile judgement of facts; You can't divorce the real possibility that the jurors, particularly after reading about the experiences of others who been in and lived in Sanford, brought their conservative and racist political and cultural baggage to their decision.
94
@91: It's more or less impossible to tell how a jury arrived at a verdict, and racial bias is always a real concern (usually more for a defendant than the State). What I object to is people who decide that the *only* way the jury could have reached this verdict is if it had the same racial bias Zimmerman seemed to have.

Only two people knew who took the first violent action: Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman. The prosecution had an uphill battle from the start for this very reason. While it's possible that the jury was motivated by racial bias, it's also not ridiculous to suggest that an actually impartial jury would have come to the same conclusion.
95
Of what people?
By what people?
For what people?
96
Civil suit time. Wreck the fucker's life.
97
@96 Arguably not on the table. FL law also provides shelter from civil cases.

Ref: FL 776.032
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/inde…
98
I live in one of the whitest and racist states in the country, and even I know:
that verdict is fucked up.
99
@68: Um, not remotely. She was in the garage and had the gun in her hand. When her husband saw the gun, he threatened to kill her. There was no space between her feeling threatened and firing the shot.
But you know why it's not premeditated murder in her case? BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T SHOOT THE BASTARD. And given that the warning shot went into the ceiling and nowhere near him, you'd have a tough time even making a case for attempted murder.
100
Compare & contrast the Brereton/Salters encounter, in downtown Seattle.

An apparently intoxicated man, of mixed race but 'black' by prevailing social convention, picks an argument with a woman on a bus. The exchange escalates, her party exits, flips him off, he then exits and approaches her in anger, she produces a concealed handgun and shoots him in the chest (Nicked in the aorta, but he recovers.) She is taken into custody but not charged - and becomes the celebrated party in this incident by consensus of the Slog.
101
When did that happen?
102
Wow, some serious ego gymnastics from Lindy West there. Yeah, the Zimmerman verdict is totally all about validating her. Mmmhmm.
103
There's a lot of crazy talk in this thread. Zimmerman's a bit of a dumbass, wannabe cop ok but that doesn't make him a premeditated murderer. The gated community where the altercation occurred had had many break-ins and home invasions. Zimmerman and his wife's actions led to one kid who committed a home invasion being put away for five years. The neighbors weren't going to say bad things about Zimmerman.

The prosecution was botched big time. I don't get how they expected to sell second degree murder to a jury. A lesser charge of manslaughter was in the cards but Zimmerman would have probably skipped on that as well. All evidence presented, as thin as it was, supported self defense on the part of Zimmerman.

It's a tragedy. We're all supposed to feel bad about this. But hanging a dumbass out to dry in a show trial is bad too and intolerable.

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