Comments

1
She's trying to dump the friend? Oh hell no. It's clear the married chick still has the hots for this guy, and hopes some strange turn of events will bring them back together in the (presumably far) future. That can't happen if her friends go snatch him up.
2
At least girls don't say, "If I can't have X, no one can have them" and shoot everyone in a murder-suicide. That's so much more a testosterone thing.
3
LW is going to learn too much about (ex)friend's sex kinks.

Address that, please.

A little polite fiction tontine would seem to do the trick.
4
Young people and their silly codes and rules... sigh.
5
@2 Yes they do. Stop trolling.

2/10
6
@4,

Indeed. While the bride is by far the bigger idiot, the LW herself at least budges the needle on the idiotometer for somehow finding it necessary to seek advice from Dan on such a silly topic.
7
How did she find out they were dating?
8
@1 >> That can't happen if her friends go snatch him up. >>

In my view, it's far more likely to happen if he's dating one of her friends and hence still in her social circle. Bride should be grateful ...
9
In my opinion, the code all but ends when you get married. Also, you have to factor in how long ago they dated and for how long did they date?? if they went out for 4 years and broke up a month ago, then that's kind of a shitty thing to do. Considering her friend is now married though, coupled with the fact that they dated for 3 months and it was 3 years ago...i say the x is fair game. Personally, I think the right thing to do would still be to ask the friend if it's ok, but even so...she's not really doing anything all THAT wrong if she doesn't
10
For another angle on this, take a look at Carolyn Hax today. Her answer is longwinded in the patented Hax style, but basically agrees with Dan.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/…
11
I've never understood this "code" business. My friends and I passed around boyfriends in high school like it was going out of style. I had one friend who was like a sister to me, who dated five of my exes. It was never an issue. In fact, I would characterise it as a shared experience that drew us closer together.
12
Hey LW - the Bride is being an idiot, but the person who should have alarms going off in his head is the new groom because his wife is really controlling and manipulative of her friends. Does not bode well.....
13
i have a best friend who laments that we never got to have sex with the same person. he said it would've made us
" 'ho bros' " ..
..this is a guy thing, right ?
14
You're free to date whomever you like. The bride is being unreasonable.
15
I don't really believe in a hard-and-fast "code" and I'm slightly weirded out that it exists, but I do think that there are circumstances under which it's inappropriate to date a friend's ex without at least talking to them before you go for it. For example, *if* I had been seriously involved with someone for a very long time and then it ended, *and* my friend got involved with them, *and* this was a very close friend who knew exactly what had happened and how it had affected me, *and* they hadn't said anything to me first...

...then I might be very upset. Depending on how long ago it was and how I feel about this ex now.

Or, say, if my ex was abusive and the friend knew, I would be upset if they started dating no matter how much time had elapsed. For different reasons.

In this case...the friend dated this guy for three months three years ago, and now she's married and doesn't really talk to the LW anymore. I see no reason why this ought to be an issue. Either she's got issues with you or issues with the guy, LW-from-the-past, and either way it's not really your problem.
16
" I would characterise it as a shared experience that drew us closer together."

I bet your crabs felt the same way.
17
surely as an adult one makes ones own judgement call on these things?
i've twice decided that the 'politics' weren't worth the venture, where i might have otherwise been keen. but in both those moments it was because of complicated long-term connections that were just too close... and it was an expression of my own boundaries, not someone else's.
it might be because i live in a small country, but once your over 25 the chances of finding someone who is not the friend/ex/cousin of one of your friends/exs/cousins.... becomes vanishingly small.
18
I would ditch a friend who somehow thinks that everyone she ever dated is a possession she still owns. Once you break up with someone, they are a free agent.
19
Dan nailed in the last paragraph. There's more going on here than the guy - he's a red herring. These girls (women?) have something between them that isn't settled.

Thinking about it, the married friend may think she one-upped the unmarried friend and, when she found out the unmarried friend was dating an ex of hers, felt trumped.

Yawn.
20
I can't even.
21
I think the letter writer wanted to fuck the bride on the wedding night while she was still in her wedding dress and then have a big three-way with the ex, all while the new husband watches.

In the end, both guys come and the girls do that thing where they spit jizz into each other's mouths.

Oh wait.. what were we talking about?
22
@1: Probably. If you're married, that's a really unstable/insecure position to be in.

@2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Hartma… :(
23
I've come around over the years to the idea that most of what we call modern "morality" is just middle class women agreeing upon a set of rules to protect their tenuous economic situation- if they weren't dependent on their husband's income and retirement package, they wouldn't be so angry if he started diddling the nanny.

The Europeans generally provide a *real* social safety net for both men and women, so their women are less hung about about the "rules" as mentioned by the LR.
24
Your friend wouldn't care about some silly "code" if she were completely over her ex, and if she's not (which she's not), that's HER (and her husband's) problem, not yours.

That's official. Print this out and carry it in your fuckin wallet in case you run into her.
25
@20 I'm impressed.
26
Anybody who's spent any time around little kids should be familiar with this "code." It goes as follows: The toy I'm currently playing with is mine. Any toy I have previously played with is still mine. Any toy that I may wish to play with at some future date is also mine. There is no "yours."
27
@23: Actually, the posters from Europe are pretty firm that the whole "In Europe we are all totally down with our spouses screwing whoever, while we drink wine" is an American myth. They get just as pissed, and just as divorced over it.

And plenty of economically solid women have tossed a boyfriend or husband for cheating.
28
@11: Agreed. Why would I date someone who couldn't be a friend? And my friends like each other. And no one thinks they can own another human. So among my friends, yes, ever-diminishing concentrations of bodily fluids could be theorized through long sequences of people.

Regarding your BF/GF: everyone gets infatuated, excited, hurt and heals. But regrading third parties? There are separate relationships with them.

Also, the drama and angst with the romantic partners was never bad. Perhaps because you all swam in the same pool and no one could be an ass without looking bad themselves.

Maybe more fundamentally, we all wished the best for each other, romantic partner past or present or not. The LW's former "best friend" does not seem to share that concern for others.
29
OR, these two women were best friends at the time the bride & ex were dating, the ex was the love of the bride's life and she's had trouble putting the relationship behind her (they're clearly still friends even though the actual relationships was brief, so the pining could have been going on for years). The bride has finally managed to invest in a new relationship and invited the ex to her wedding as a means of closure but with the bitter-sweet hope he'd at least be a bit jealous. The letter writer is privy to all of this information but neglects to tell us that she is fully aware of how deeply traumatic this relationship was to the bride. Hooking up with the ex at the wedding undermined the the bride's hope for a triumphal moment.

Any code that says you can't date another person's romantic ex or current crush is bullshit. But everyone has unhealed heartaches that go far past the stats of a relationship, the kinds of things we only talk about with our best friends. If that trust is breeched, the friendship is over, and there's no point in trying to justify one's position. I suspect that the letter writer, instead of simply taking her prize (the ex) and walking away with him, also wants a moral credibility she doesn't deserve. She knows more than she's admitting about the bride's deepest emotions, she's seeking outside affirmation to assuage her guilt as a once best-friend. Choosing the ex over the bride is okay, but choosing the ex and insisting on the bride's blessing is not.
30
@29--the bride dated that ex for three months, five years ago. The 'love of her life'? If that's how she feels, she has a screw loose and LW should just do a slow fade.

Your fantasizing about the backstory and the motivations of the LW are just that--fantasies.
31
#23, of all the justifications for higher taxes I've read, yours was certainly the most imaginative.
32
If @23 is in fact correct, I'll be interested to see how societal rules around fidelity change here in the UK now that the social security system is being slowly asphyxiated.
33
As a European, I'm always baffled by such crap as "the Code" or "the Rules". Apart from striking me as pretty childish, the seriousness many Americans seem to appl to such bullshit, it seems to me proof that America still lives, in some ways, in the Victorian Age. No European beyond the age of 15 would consider taking seriously such "rules" as "Don't kiss on a first date", "Don't date your friend's ex" and whatever other social laws Americans voluntarily impose on one another.
34
I think everyone dismissing this type of "code" as entirely silly is being a bit naive. There are those who can remain friends with exes and those who either can't or choose not to. I'm happily married and have only two serious exes, both of whom are basically good people, but I have no desire to be friends with either of them. For me, those relationships are in the past and that's where I'd prefer them to stay. Given the number of men that exist in the world versus the number of men that I've seriously dated, I'd find it extremely odd if any of my close friends decided to hook up with either of my exes. I'd also never dream of dating the ex of any of my good friends. Then again, I also think dating the *siblings* of your friends is weird. It's all just too close for comfort.
36
Isn't "the Code" shorthand for "The Bro Code?"

That one at least makes sense; if you can't date someone's ex, then there's no incentive to try and break them up or generally hang around and be creepy while the relationship is still active. Plus, not having the Code means guys need to be way more careful about what they do or say with their girlfriends, because that same girl could wind up talking in their friend's ears. Without the Code, guys have to worry about a lot more competition from their friends than is entirely healthy.

Of course, it's not written in stone either. You have to be pretty close for the Code to apply, there's always the option to ask for the Ex's permission to date the girl, and like any other social rule you can ignore it when inconvenient.
37
@31: nice!
38
@21

"In the end, both guys come and the girls do that thing where they spit jizz into each other's mouths."

I believe that's called "snowballing".
39
First of all, if there are two single people you don't want to get together you DON'T invite both of them to your wedding. That's pretty much an invitation for them to get together.

I mean, what the hell do you think single people DO at a wedding? They throw rice, eat awful cake, and spend most of the night looking for the other single people to find someone to hook up with.

The whole, "you can't date my ex" thing is childish. It's one thing if it was a bad breakup. That's understandable.

But if you like someone enough to invite them to your wedding you should like them enough to want to see them happy with one of your friends.

If I had to play armchair psychologist I would say that the Bride saw her wedding as an opportunity to rub her good fortune in the nose of her friends, or her ex, or both, and got miffed when that turned on her and they ended up finding good fortune in the situation.

When my partner and I moved once we had a house warming party at our new place, and among the people we invited were two of my exs. They ended up hooking up together and I was thrilled. I really liked them both and thought they made a great couple. I was actually upset when it didn't work out with them. Why on earth would I not want to see my friends, or exs, happy with other people I hold in high regard? Especially since I'm not on the market anymore so it isn't taking away anything from me?

It would only make sense to get upset at that if I were still available and hoping rekindle something with an ex. Which is why I feel sorry for the poor groom. If his marriage is starting off with his new wife upset that her ex hooked up it doesn't bode well for the marriage.
40
The "code" is like all social "rules" of behavior, rooted in establishing a baseline for interactions, with an eye towards not causing accidental offense.

These manners are not silly or arbitrary, they are like having an advice columnist already answering your question in the moment. Sure, they are not always applicable and some may have even grown obsolete, but they certainly can help you from stomping on toes and allow you to smooth ruffled feathers, in less familiar circles.

I am sure that most of you who said that dating your friend's exes was not a problem were entirely correct, but I do not doubt that at least one of you in that camp is an unknowingly oafish boor.
41
Oh - I also meant to float the idea that the bride may simply be a manners-nazi.

She's upset not because of any actual consequences of the friend and ex violating the code, but rather scandalized by the flouting of the rules themselves.
42
@34 Then, presumably, you wouldn't invite your exes to your wedding.

@29 God. The Bride in your scenario sounds like a major bitch. Trying to flaunt her marriage in front of her currently single ex? I'd cut her out of my life and fast.
43
She dated him for a whole, count 'em, three months, five years ago, but still likes him well enough to invite him to her wedding, and then gets pissed that he and another of her friends got together? Obviously she thinks she owns her friends -- meaning you, too. Clearly she's a Queen Bee who can't stand not being the center of every relationship triangle in her life, and the fact that two of her friends just set up a relationship that puts her lower on the hierarchy than each other drives her fucking insane.

Bitch be crazy. If she wants to dump you over this, let her, and count yourself lucky.
44
@13 the term I keep hearing is "Eskimo Brothers"...
45
@29: Nice theory, but did the phrase "she dated him for three months three years ago" mean anything to you? It obviously wasn't true love if it was over that quickly, though it might have been one big-ass crush.

My mistake in #43, where I said "five" years ago. So the actual timeline is: Five years ago, Letter Writer would have counted this person a best friend. (This implies that the distancing began somewhere between then and now.) Three years ago she dated this guy for three months. Recently -- that is, three years after breaking up with a guy she only dated for three months, and some number of years after drifting away from Letter Writer -- she is getting all proprietary about what the two of them are allowed to do with each other. The technical term for that sort of person is "Control Freak."

The fact that Letter Writer and Friend "don't talk or see each other much now" is another important factor. The one legitimate reason to call "Hands Off My Ex" is that it would be awkward and unpleasant to have to continue to interact with the ex in order to stay friends with you. Not only is it not awkward for her to deal with him -- she likes him well enough to invite him to her freaking wedding, after all -- but she doesn't even see Letter Writer often enough to claim it would be a burden on their (now essentially nonexistent) BFF status.
46
I'm not a fan of the Code. At its best I think it's more of a pirates'-parlay thing than a set of unequivocal laws. I choose not to date my friends' exes (unless I fell in love, then it's not off the table) because I don't want the hassle, and because I live in a city where anyone could go out for the evening and be approached by three dozen potential dates, and with those numbers it's just not worth eating fruit off the family (and friend) tree. But that's me, I like my life neat and compartmentalised. It's a personal choice.

I also have a few exes I wouldn't be thrilled to see my friends dating: one who thought that stalking me and threatening suicide was an acceptable way to show his love; one whose girlfriend thought stalking me was an acceptable way to show her anger at the fact he'd had a previous relationship (it's not having a crazy girlfriend that put me off him, it's the fact that he justified her stalking); and one who I'm not over yet. (Yeah, that's *my* issue, not theirs, but it would still hurt.)

In general, though, exes are pretty much fair game IMO, even if you choose not to take advantage of them being on the table.

But to answer LW's actual question: yes. Even if you believe in the Code - and it's worth noting that even if YOU believe in it, this in no way obligates your friends to share your beliefs - it should end when you get married, at least assuming it's not a temporary green card marriage or something. (Do people do those anymore?)
47
I think this code is BULLSHIT. I am a guy living in a small town. I have had friends break up with there girlfriends no bad drama just didn't work out. BUT because these girlfriends are friends with everyone in small town suddenly guy can't date anyone. That sucks. If you breakup with someone and the breakup is healthy you should be happy for your ex to find a partner and happy if that partner is a friend of yours.

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