Comments

1
Uhhhhh. . . .

Excuse me, I have to be someplace. . .
2
If there's one thing that my time on this planet has taught me, it's that every single straight 22-yr old guy will be shocked and horrified that his girlfriend wants to eat pussy. There's nothing that turns a straight young dude-- especially a horny dude-- off faster than the thought of girl-girl munchfest.

That said, don't be surprised if he finds the airfare to come watch.
4
@2 el oh ell.

Also this advice is great.
5
I love that @1 & @2 prop each other up like a farmer leaning on a hoe.
6
"...either of the people I LOVE?" I could let that go with an LMB, but I'll just say that, if she really equates these two people, it becomes quite a different letter.

I think Mr Savage is a little too result-focused on this one. It's perhaps sweet to want to get the LF some action, but using heterocentrically prejudicial views about the irrelevance of same-sex experimentation to do so doesn't sit well. I'm going to hope that LF would be willing to be an experimental fling with LW, but, discovering herself to be presented to BF as non-threatening, storms off in high dudgeon (or at least low dudgeon).

There's an early episode of As Time Goes By in which Jean's divorced daughter Judith is about to go to a dinner party with some married couples. She tells Lionel that her married friends all love her to pieces because she's so non-threatening. Lionel cheers her up considerably, telling her to be a threat.
7
@6: "using heterocentrically prejudicial views about the irrelevance of same-sex experimentation to do so doesn't sit well"

More the irrelevance of young relationships. He's not somehow "kinder" to the dude.
8
His fault for backpacking.
9
Fake? (or maybe even: Aussie BF fantasizing?)
10
I agree, 9, this letter was probably photoshopped.
11
Dan, you forgot to consider the possibility that the BF has shared his sleeping bag with a few hunky lads down under as well. Boys being boys, there may have been a few group loads shot upon the rocks of some mountaintop...
12
Speaking as a mostly heterosexual man type person, I second Dan's advice for you CIC. It's hard for me to believe that any straight man would be that opposed to his girlfriend hooking up with another girl. And it will probably be the source for many hot fantasies of his. If you happen to like it, then standard issue (FFM) threesomes could be in your future, which are great fun! But yeah, Dan's advice would have worked really well on me if I was the backpacking boyfriend...
13
Loved the Garfunkel and Oates.
14
@11 I wonder sometimes what would happen if Dan started spreading that news the way he spreads the news that (almost) all men use porn and that many apparently monogamous marriages are monogamish.

If Dan started adding: "oh, and by the way half of your straight boyfriends/husbands have enjoyed some kind of sex with men" (Does half seem about right? Kinsey says a third, but that was a while ago and the risks of experimentation have gone down a lot), do you think he would lose readership because people aren't ready to hear that?
15
(oh, wait, Kinsey's one-third is of all men; it's not one-third of straight men.)
16
I agree with Dan's advice on this girl talking to her boyfriend about it, but I'm not sure it's kosher here to come in with the assumption that the guy's been messing around while he's away. There's a chance, yeah, but Dan's just this close to suggesting that Australia is a country of succubi here.
17
That was on of the best G&O's ever. And right up your canned ham alley, Dan! But they can say that stuff....
18
@14: My eyes always pop when the latest scientific survey insists that there are even fewer homosexuals than the last one. I think we're down to 3 homosexuals per county now, so I don't know where all those thousands come from who are at the pride marches and fill the bars.

Current wisdom is that women toggle freely back and forth from lesbian and straight, but they're unique in this. And supposedly this phenomena isn't proper bisexuality. My gut instinct tells me that there are more bisexuals than gays+straights, though they suffer from cultural pressures and cannot bring themselves to identify as bi. Science suggests there are even fewer (male) bisexuals than there are gays!

When I think of all the guys I met in bars and slept with who insisted they were straight... I lose my confidence in surveys. My unscientific conclusion is that people with same-sex attraction and sexual experience are less willing to identify as gay or bi these days. My guess is that in earlier times, people didn't know that experimentation was common and normal. Any act you'd committed was proof you were queer. Now sexuality is becoming better known, people use it as an excuse to put off deciding. I wonder if we probed young men more deeply, would they admit to being "straight but a little freaky"?
19
How deeply do you plan to probe?
20
I always thought Garfunkel and Oates are lezzies. Or am I missing some kind of irony here? I did like the little clip.
21
Ms Rand: I agree he's not somehow kinder to the guy, but:

"Tell your boyfriend about this girl who doesn't really present a threat to your relationship because she's a lesbian and you're straight and blah blah blah..."

is not only the sort of mediocrity one expects more from Ms Prudie than from Mr Savage, but also ought to strike anyone with a good sense of cliche that leading with She Isn't a Threat is the surest path to LW discovering that she's mistaken about that.

I think I have a double standard on this one because just by nature of societal advantages a possible opposite-sex relationship constitutes an almost automatic threat in reversed situations.
22
Didn't realize until just now that Garfunkel and Oates were black men.
23
My GF called me from a bar one night and started telling me about the cute barmaid she was developing a crush on. I told her she had my permission, without a second of delay. It didn't work out (yet), but I hope it does. If I am not allowed to stray, she still has my permission.
24
Let's see: 22, 22,19, Edmonton, Australia... My money says hot lesbian friend is a Savage Love reader, has followed the bread crumbs here, and already knows that CIC is ripe for the picking. Look for early snow melt in Edmonton.
25
If you ask, be willing to entertain the idea that he will want to be part of your experiment upon return from the desert wastes of Oz. Better bring that up to your girlcrush when you proposition her, too.
26
The letter is boring; the problem is probably fake; the Garfunkel and Oates was hilarious. Thank you for it.
27
Thanks so much for the Garfunkel and Oates. I KNEW the woman Raj took home from the comic book store on Big Bang V-Day episode looked familiar.
28
Best G&O ever. Something so subversive about it.

Mmmm warm blue cheese.
29
@21:
"... who doesn't really present a threat to your relationship because she's a lesbian and you're straight and blah blah blah..."
I read that completely as an eyeroll from Dan. With maybe a little weariness at the cliche.
30
I think Garfunkel & Oates should do a double bill with the Wet Spots.
31
I really don't get why women hate their own parts so much. They're totally awesome. I'm a man and mine's odd looking too, yet I don't freak out about it. What's the big deal?
32
@31:
I like my own parts.
But my face in someone else's pussy? That would freak me out.
33
@18 Kinsey found more guy-on-guy sex for several reasons. First, his assistants did lengthy in-depth interviews asking each person his/her attractions, history, fantasies, etc.

Today's research, even major studies, use a survey and rarely "plumb the depths." Next, only some surveys ask about lifetime behavior now, most just focus on the past year. Many just ask "are you gay/straight/bi" and so *only* get at self-identification -- which is about 2% gay for males.

> Science suggests there are even fewer (male) bisexuals than there are gays!

Actually, today's science shows that bi-identified males are almost as rare as unicorns. But bi males go way up if you look at the research that looks at behavior (look at MSM on pubmed). The problem is that media summaries of the science usually get it all wrong / oversimplified.

Kinsey's work was in a way much more in depth than modern research. But it had faults too. There is no exact science when it comes to sex, as Kinsey said, we're all snowflakes. (Or was that gall wasps?)

Another wrinkle -- probably more situational male-on-male adolescent sex in the 1950s, whereas more of today's adolescent males can get it on with adolescent females.
34
@31, @32 -- Garfunkel & Oates are fun, but I think this is one of their few songs that unfortunately strengthens the envelope of tradition rather than pushing the envelope.

Mostly / entirely straight males and females have so much same-sex situational sex in certain situations -- English boarding schools in the 1930s, prisons, Oberlin College -- that the same-sex "ewww" factor obviously is made up / a cultural response -- or at least is no greater than for anyone having sex for the first time, whether with same gender or other gender.
35
I love G&O, but this song is a bit of a miss for me, as I think pussy is beautiful and don't really understand people who don't agree. Plus, women feel self-conscious enough, no need to reinforce negative views of their genitalia.
36
225 "If you ask, be willing to entertain the idea that he will want to be part of your experiment upon return from the desert wastes of Oz. Better bring that up to your girlcrush when you proposition her, too."

No and no. Why would you even go there?
37
(@36 was referring to @25).
38
@36: I'd wager good money that @25 is much more likely to have accurately predicted the reaction of the boyfriend than you are.

Where are people getting this idea that the bf is so likely to agree to the proposal? Most young men are a lot more interested in getting pussy themselves than they are in enabling their girlfriend to get some. Sure, there's some wank material to be had from thinking about your girl burying her face in another girl thousands of miles away - but the boy is a lot more likely to agree if (a) he's likely to score soon himself and wants the free pass or (b) he thinks there's a chance he'll benefit directly when he returns home. But unless one of those two things is the case, it wouldn't surprise me if he said no. Most people want to have sex a lot more than they want to help their partner have sex, and most people don't like feeling left out.
39
@38, the boyfriend might like that, agreed. I didn't mean to suggest he wouldn't.

What I meant is that CIC should not ask the girlcrush if she'll sleep with the boyfriend. And she shouldn't allow the boyfriend to think that this is possible. It's not possible -- the other woman is a lesbian.
40
@38: "Where are people getting this idea that the bf is so likely to agree to the proposal? Most young men are a lot more interested in getting pussy themselves than they are in enabling their girlfriend to get some."

You're not really arguing with Dan here.
41
If your pussy smells half as bad as G&O describe, you should probably see a doctor, or at least take a shower. Seriously.
42
@ 39: Ah, that makes sense. Agreed.

@40: Maybe not. I think Dan's overestimating the power of guilt, though.
43
Shouldn't have watched the Garfunkel & Oates song. I have a feeling that having that bouncing around my head is going to harm my sex life.

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