c'mon man, yer better than this. i'm a liberal douchebag myself, but i'm smart enough to know that this idiot doesn't represent the views of all conservatives in america.

That's what passes for Republican debate these days. Like the new secessionists (hey...a band name!). These folks are proud of their low information, bumper sticker, selfish bigoted positions.

Fukkin' A!!!

@1) Don't be obtuse. Read the post again: It says that some conservatives are moving in one direction, some are introducing hateful legislation in the other direction, and some are being crazy. You can't seriously believe this post says this guy represents all conservatives. Yeesh.

Big whoop, Ed Murray. Patty Murray has gotten death threats on her voice mail. Eat yr heart out.

There is a deep, rich vein of conservative shit-fitting we have barely begun to mine. It's a gusher. Just sit back and enjoy.

Also, alarmingly, a lot of these nutjobs are armed to the teeth.

Sounds kinda like Ted Nugent. Does he live near you guys?

I know several conservatives who oppose this, as well as a path to citizenship for illegals. I don't detect any racism in their reasoning, which is this: we shouldn't reward people for breaking the law.

It's certainly an argument that's hard to counter, as this strict law-and-order view of theirs is so strong that it isn't swayed by the human tragedy of, say, deporting some kid's parents, even if they are (otherwise) law-abiding and hard-working.

This fine citizen probably has no idea that all the 'illegal wetbacks' pay sales tax just like he does. And gas tax. And property tax. Most pay social security tax too, but never see a dime of it. They deserve access to education as much as any other taxpayer.

That makes him stupid as fuck, as well a racist asshole.

You can criticize liberals for a lot of things, but they can be persuaded, they can shift. It's both a weakness & a strength. The part of the electorate that this caller represents will never move from their views. They are entrenched and just as easily turn on their own for anything less than a complete return to the Jim Crow South.

The views of these folks aren't reproducing like they used to. They will die w/ those that hold them. Kids today want hope, and are far more willing to accept their neighbors than any generation before them. The Republicans are zombies, already dead, but still walking around, causing havoc.

Given what you see on Faux News (if you can stand watching it for more than a minute), this is tame stuff. Ed's been called much worse, and he's courageous enough to stick to his principles no matter what these conservatives say about him.

"And the worse it get for conservatives, the crazier that callers like this guy get."

And the better it gets for Democrats. Let the Repugs keep moving to the extreme right. We'll see where that gets them in 2016.

@ Sure. That's why you always hear KKKonservatives sputtering and shrieking about Canadians and Britons who might be in the country illegally, too.

Did anyone think to *69 that cracker?

Or maybe try the caller ID?

I'm glad no one told this guy that Ed Murray is the gay one.

Thank you Ed Murray! The Latino community thanks you. More proof that he should stay in Olympia and not run for mayor. We need leadership like his and not spineless Frank Chopp.

@8 Uh, it's only hard to counter if you're not considering this thing we call "reality," which basically amounts to this: people are coming to this country from south of the border because they have work opportunities unavailable to them in their home countries, regardless of whether or not they do so through the standard channels for legal immigration. That is the fact of the matter. Full stop. It does not change because you enact racist immigration policies (i.e. Arizona), and it does not change no matter how much they bitch and moan about it. Hell, the only thing that really makes a difference is the strength of our economy, as we saw during the recession.

It's not about being swayed by human tragedy or not. It's about acknowledging reality and working with it, or denying reality and working against it. Calling that "hard to counter" is giving them intellectual credit they don't deserve.

@8 That why I like the plan put forth by Bush and Obama, that was a good plan, not amnesty but not sending them back either.

@15 My thinking exactly. Dude could use a little more "faggot" and a little less "douchebag".

@8 - Your conservative acquaintances think people shouldn't be rewarded for breaking the law? That's fair, but ask them how they feel about kids being punished because their parents broke the law.

@12
O.K., but I'm concerned that they'll keep on moving to the right but get control at some point anyway due to Democratic ineptness and/or plain bad luck.

I remember when "Reagan for President" was nearly as funny a joke as "Nixon for President" evidently was in '61.

@17 - I consider a counter successful only when the other side sees my viewpoint. I've tried all the arguments you laid out here - no luck. They can't get past rewarding law-breakers.

This hardly makes them intellectuals, but opposing amnesty on those grounds doesn't make them racists, either. To them it's like give a car thief a car.

If we want to pass immigration reform, we have to recognize that conservatives have this strict authoritarian strak, and figure out a way to get them the fuck past it. I've had no luck.

@20 - Tried it, doesn't work. Their response is either:

Too bad for them, but their parents should have considered the consequences before they broke the law.

- or -

That's just a foot in the door for letting the law-breaking parents stay.

State colleges and universities are paid by the taxpayers of this state, and there's a "discount" for state residents. As far as I can tell, there's no requirement by the universities (I could be wrong) that state residents are only citizens. All residents pay taxes in this state, where we fund nearly everything by sales and property taxes (and yes, renters pay property taxes in their rent - no landlord will rent at a loss; if his property taxes go up, the rent he charges will go up).
There's nothing in this about "rewarding people here illegally." It's about getting what you've paid for.

@3 ... But he does.

@23 my GOP family are all rich and only care about money. Which I can't begrudge them because they what party is gonna let them keep the most loot at the end of the day.
My arguements are basically: it's stupidly expensive to deport people, who wil probably come back. Helping them become educated citizens who will benefit the country economically a lot of liberal positions tend to pay out in the long run. Heck keeping someone locked for life is cheaper then kiling them
But, like I said, my GOP family members only care about their wealth.

Secede from the Union, please!

I think we should give Texas back to Mexico, with no war involved. On top of that we should sell Alaska, back to Russia, for the same $7.2 million we bought it for.

oh geez, dominick. i thought you said conservative america is racist. my bad.

i stand corrected. what a piece of shit.

Geh, I'd rather be a bleeding heart liberal than the alternative.

Don't forget anti sharia legislation.

@23 When I was a wee lass growing up in Orange County, and my right wingier relatives talked about how they weren't racists and they didn't hate Hispanics, they just hated illegal immigrants who came here and took our jobs.

When I was very young, I took them at face value. Then eventually I noticed they were full of crap. They didn't care about illegality in any other respect -- these were people quite happy to drive faster than the speed limit, cheat on their taxes, and defend Republican politicians when they broke the law. They never checked for green cards or birth certificates before saying racist things about particular Hispanics. And they didn't seem at all concerned about "illegal immigrants" when it was, say, a European college student overstaying their visa.

Anyway, I'm sure I couldn't have won an argument directly with them either, because when people are full of crap, they don't argue with any consistency, and you can't win against that. You can merely demonstrate that they are full of crap.