Why We Should Reject Initiative 1240

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Ugh. I am so worried this will pass.

Asparagus! on October 23, 2012 at 1:16 PM

If you want to help, please let your friends, neighbors and relatives know that you oppose 1240. It's a pretty terrible initiative - vague and yet harsh - and won't move the needle in Washington State one bit.

Support funding our schools and the items that Marcie Maxwell has listed.

No On 1240, www.no1240.org

westello on October 23, 2012 at 1:29 PM

"Our top notch, dedicated, overburdened union teachers are just being crushed by their unbearable 9 month workload, one month of holidays, snow days, and in-service days, the grind of an 8 hour day and an average class size of 16 students."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-22…

on October 23, 2012 at 1:36 PM

We have failed to adequately fund education for 30 years. Let's avoiding doing more damage. Vote NO on 1240 because we don't need charters here. Invest in and focus resources in our neighborhood schools instead.

pugnacious on October 23, 2012 at 1:39 PM

If the charter decision was a normal government policy call this idea would have died long ago. It lives on, zombie-like, simply because it tickles the egos and/or lines the pockets of a few choice individuals.

MattL on October 23, 2012 at 1:49 PM

@3 You're a dick. My daughter's math teacher is in his classroom at 6:45 every day, to help students who need, and after school on appointment. He's also available to students during his lunch and prep times. Then he goes home to grade assignments and prep for the next day.

But yeah, blame things on lazy teachers.

Goldy on October 23, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Thank you, Marcie Maxwell, for your intelligent, well-researched comments. I'm with you. I will vote NO on Proposition 1240.

Aatticus Finch on October 23, 2012 at 2:13 PM

Thank you, SLOG, for some counterpoint to the incessant charter rah-rah op-eds published by the Seattle Times. Even the Salt Lake Tribune is more fair and balanced than the Blethen Times.

StuckInUtah on October 23, 2012 at 2:28 PM

My two children are fortunate to be doing well at a very good Seattle elementary school. They are joined by other kids who may not be doing as well, either due to language skills or other issues. However, they are equally valued by other kids, by teachers and by parents. That school is a reflection of our society as a whole.

Charter schools might be happy to take public money to school children who perform well academically, but they will certainly reject the others, for the sake of their bottom line and their investors. That does not reflect our society, and should not reflect our society.

Private school should be paid for from private funds. Want to go to Bush School? Then pony up your $25,000 per year, and leave the public schools alone.

camlux on October 23, 2012 at 2:59 PM

Reflexively opposing charter schools is no different than reflexively criticizing teachers' unions.

Assuming that all charters will reject struggling kids because some charters have (just as some public schools do) is no different than assuming all public schools are poorly run because some public schools are (just as some charters are).

There are lots and lots of poor and middle class families who are very happy with their charter schools and very thankful not to be forced to attend their local violent and/or dirty and/or poorly run public school.

And when they ask why aren't they allowed to choose a better school for themselves, you can say, "Because private companies are bad, okay?"

Telling poor and middle-class families that they don't deserve the same kind of educational choices their rich peers have is neither compassionate nor liberal.

LJM on October 23, 2012 at 4:36 PM

Thanks, Goldy @6, for defending my career choice! That sounds almost exactly like my day. 6:45 is the latest that I arrive at school and I don't leave before 3pm any day but Friday. I then spend at least 4 more hours grading or planning at home during the week and most of Sunday. And then there's the fact that my salary is a contract for 180 days of work. So those breaks that everyone likes to whine about teachers getting are pretty much unpaid. They just divide our 180 day contract over the whole year so that teachers can count on the income every month.

marstorr on October 23, 2012 at 5:19 PM

@10- Why privatize instead of fixing the (basically very well functioning) public school system?

Because they can pay teachers less and pay more for administration. Because they can wedge in religious education on the tax payer's dime. Because non-profit charters subcontract to for-profit charter management companies.

No demonstrated upside, plenty of downsides. It's bullshit and any rational person knows it. So some kids get to go to "clean and non-violent" schools, which means the kids who really need help are getting even less help.

Fuck you and fuck anyone who advocates for the anti-democratic Charter School model.

dwightmoodyforgetsthings on October 23, 2012 at 5:35 PM

In some sense, we can even go beyond charter schools to individual tutoring + heavy web instruction.

Think about what we pay per pupil for public education...nearly $10,000.

You could take that and provide a full time teacher for 8 kids, pay her $80,000 a year. She could go one-on-one with each student at their homes, 4 hours a week and one day with all of them in a class room.

You could then augment that with loads of individual, and group work (during the individual tutoring) mediated with web based instruction.

Supreme Ruler Of The Universe on October 23, 2012 at 5:41 PM

A small group of people should not have the power to give our public schools to private interests. Neighboring property owners will not even have a say in the schools they have aways funded. This is wrong on so many levels. Please vote No.

on October 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM

We already underfund our schools. Quit trying to nickle and dime our childrens' education.

pugnacious on October 23, 2012 at 6:39 PM

"Telling poor and middle-class families that they don't deserve the same kind of educational choices their rich peers have is neither compassionate nor liberal."

You know, you've said this before with no evidence that 1240 will serve at-risk or poor kids any better.

My evidence is that this initiative doesn't mandate transportation even for poor students. How is that giving their children a "choice"? How compassionate is that?

westello on October 23, 2012 at 8:53 PM

So if this is passed, will this be a voucher like program for private schools that Bush pushed years ago? Or will my kid win the lottery and be able to attend this type of school without having to fork over thousands of dollars?

Teachers complain about class sizes being too large, but then complain when Charter schools are proposed. Sure they'll take away tax dollars away from schools, but slowly lower the size of class rooms. Yes/No?

If Bil Gates is for this, then thats good enough for me, he's been nothing of a moderate Democrat as far as im concerned.

Kinison on October 24, 2012 at 8:10 AM

How can you all can keep voting for the same thing and hope for different results? Will your FAITH in the systems that slowly bleed us never allow you to see the other options out there? Will you never think to try something "other than"?

It's scary to think of all the closed minds that are being raised out there.
:(

on October 24, 2012 at 9:46 AM

I already voted, and I voted yes on charter schools. Seattle's school board is corrupt and incompetent. The teachers union has held everyone up. We've funded the hell out of schools here, and they only get worse. Something has to give.

Mister G on October 24, 2012 at 10:46 AM

I voted yes because the main study used by 1240's opponents appears to be bullshit:

http://www.edreform.com/wp-content/uploa…

Yeah, I know. That source supports charters. But I'd say if just half the criticisms brought up in that PDF are true, then 1240's opponents need to expand their data set beyond just a static measurement of charter school's in 16 states that were just getting off the ground and look at a bigger sampling size over the course of a few years.

socratesfanboy on October 25, 2012 at 9:05 PM

@ 4, 12, and 15:

Two things, we've been INCREASING per pupil spending for the past few decades and secondly there isn't anything to show for it:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/Sq…

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LJEdPX4U7p8/To…

I mean, fuck... can we actually bring some other options onto the table for once since more spending doesn't seem to be doing shit?

socratesfanboy on October 25, 2012 at 9:16 PM

What scares me the most is that it puts too much power in the hands of the Charter, they control hiring of teachers, administration, and scheduling. And as mentioned before if a 50% +1 majority sign a petition a fully functioning school with no deficiencies at all could be shut down, taken from the district and given to the charter at which point all teachers, staff, and administrators in that school will lose their job and need to "reapply" to the charter for re-employment at the school. The language in the bill is fuzzy on certain things especially that people without a teaching certificate but with "unusual competence" in their subject area can be hired to teach! Who is to decide if a person has "unusual competence"? The Charter does! It simply puts way too much power in the hands of people who may not have the best interests for the children at heart nor the proper knowledge of what our public education system really needs. The average voter sitting at home will see the fancy adds with Bill Gates' name and open checkbook on it and think its a great idea, without really knowing what they are voting for. There are just way too many unanswered questions with this bill, it needs to be voted down or we are making the "public" education system vulnerable.

km46 on October 29, 2012 at 9:59 AM

I just moved back to the area after being in a neighboring state for a few years. One thing I am confused on about this initiative is this: When I lived here a few years ago there were Alternative High School's (I went to one). I come back and people are calling them Charter Schools. When did Alternative school's become a Charter??? I know of a child in washington that goes to a "charter" high school and that school is sooooo slacked. No homework, you can listen to headphones in class (as long as you only have 1 earbud in) WTH?? You can earn days off of school just by showing up basically, and doing what it asked of you while you are there. You can be on your phone any time you want, heck, you can even text your teacher a question! I dont get it. This does NOT prepare a kid... Definately does not prepare a kid for college. The Charter school where I use to live all had to wear uniforms, the parents paid the tuition, and they were the smart kids that had exceeded their grade. Now washington is calling theirs a "public" charter school? Lets not confuse the truth in the fact that it is still an ALTERNATIVE school style and I believe it should remain to be called what it is... an alternative. An alternative place for students who werent making the cut in a regular setting. I thought that was all funded within the school district? When did all this change?

on October 31, 2012 at 11:42 PM

Thank you for this article--I'm currently researching all items on my ballot. I had initially skimmed the ballot and lightly pencil circled my choices and at that time I had circled yes to approve charter schools, now I know this can not be approved.

Elly Mae on November 2, 2012 at 8:49 PM

This article is a repeat of egregious rhetoric and lies promoted by those against the idea of charter schools. As example, with only 40 schools being funded, how can that even come close to accounting for 10-20 percent of the total public school population? If leaders were really worried about people leaving public education, then something would've been done (by now!) to address those who have left or who have chosen instead: independent schools, a homeschool model, parochial school, or the most in crisis: those who have been lost in the system and have dropped out of school. I see these arguments as a cry for "same old, same old" and honestly, don't you think public school leadership and political leaders have had their chance already??? Check out failure rates in our schools, especially those of minority and low income students. We can do something about that. Let's give leaders in some of those communities a chance to do what right for their own children -- the parents, educators, policy makers, community leaders, and students who want and deserve a different kind of education. One system can't, and won't work for all students.

Common Sense Lady on November 4, 2012 at 8:39 PM

We don't need more cliches aimed at raising fears and anxiety of what those nasty old charter folks are gonna do. Do you really think they have spent countless hours working this idea through, trying to turn a good idea into a reality, to provide an alternative education for these being failed by our state's education systems? The charter folks are good, caring people who care about ALL children. This isn't the Junior League folks! It's people who have been in the trenches and seen the shortcomings, know about alternative practice models (that aren't currently allowed in most districts; heaven forbid we try something outside the standard practice), and who want to offer an education to those children who don't fit the only model being offered to them to date. Opportunity comes in many shapes, sizes, colors, etc.

Listen to Sir Ken Robinson's plea for education reform (http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_sa…). Let's offer alternative programs that allow kids to find success their own way. We entered a new century over a decade ago and we're still practicing an educational system built to fill out factories in the mid-20th century! That's not who we are today, it's not who our children are, and they deserve an education system that will serve them in today's, and tomorrow's world.

Common Sense Lady on November 4, 2012 at 8:53 PM

Why we should NOT reject 1240. I have attended public schools in Seattle and a charter in Kansas City and I can vouch for the quality of education of charter schools.

First, public schools need outside competition for them to reform themselves and to improve their quality of education. Schools are given money for the number of students enrolled. I don't see how this is unfair to public schools. If they're great schools, students will still choose to enroll in them, allowing them to keep their funding. If parents are choosing to enroll their children in charter schools, then that simply means that public schools aren't doing a good job. If public school can provide the same quality of education as charter schools, then they shouldn't have any problems with keeping students and funding. Continued protection of public schools will do harm rather than good.

Second, charter schools give opportunities to students with special needs who are unable to afford private schooling. I don't see how this is unfair in any way whatsoever...Contrarily, it's unfair to deprive these students of the education that they deserve.

helloseattle99 on November 7, 2012 at 6:50 PM

Why We Should Reject Initiative 1240

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