Dan - I've been reading you since the first issue of the Stranger. You have shifted attitudes towards gay rights enormously over the last 20 years. I firmly believe Gay Rights is the Civil Rights issue of our time, and that you are literally the greatest Civil Rights leader of this young century. I am very very proud of you.

Your apology over words was kind, but unnecessary. Keep up the fight! - Will

Unfortunately in America there doesn't seem to be a way to honestly speak about Christianity. If you're worried that your remarks were impolitic, they were, but take some comfort in the fact that even if you'd used the word "nonsense" it still would have been wildly offensive to a lot of Christians.

Profanity may be the excuse, but the real reason for the righteous indignation is that taking an angry stand is their only alternative to admitting that their religion has flaws. And admitting that their religion has any imperfections whatsoever is enough to knock it off its special Pedestal of Unassailable Truth. Wait, you mean I have to start deciding for myself what's right and what isn't? Then what's the point of religion?

Not all religious people are like that but enough are.

I agree with #1. It is about time these people got called on their hypocracy. Keep up the good work.

I'm behind you all the way, of course. Never haven't been. But I've got my own battles to fight. Excuse me if I take a pass on this one.

The Old Testament sources on morality that you quote can be perceived as potentially misleading, but that is because Christians have different views on their purpose.

These views range from it being part of a moral cannon, to simply being a lead in to the Old Testament, to the New Testament completely superseding it. For example, if I wanted to criticize America, should I refer to the Articles of Confederation...or the Constitution (3/5ths of a man) before civil rights? What would be the point?

In the end, it seems clear that true "Christ"-ian begins and ends with the words in the New Testament.

One of the great pleasures of being a Seattlite for close to twenty years, is knowing that Dan Savage always has the LBGTs communties' back. Thank you Dan, for being a seemingly tireless leader and spokesman for oppressed in this country.

Oh, go ahead and call Christianity itself bullshit, Dan. We won't be mad.

that's 'canon', not 'cannon', @6. do you proofread your comments before posting?

They've been persecuting gay people for centuries. Too bad if they don't like their beliefs called "bullshit". Free speech isn't only what Christians like or get to have. Let them try to muzzle you. STOP APOLOGIZING! Tell them to fuck off. Even if it means your teevee contract? Is that who is making you cry uncle???

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling someone's religion "bullshit," but the problem with doing that here is that it suggests that a) Christianity is somehow unique amongst religions in being bullshit, and b) it being bullshit in general is the reason that so many Christians are anti-gay. You certainly don't have to buy into Christianity's bullshit specifically in order to be religiously bigoted against gays, and there are a load of Christians who aren't bigoted against gays. So in order to avoid confusion, it's important to clarify what you're calling bullshit in this particular instance, and why. Which you just did, incredibly well. Thank you!

That's enough italics for me for one day.

Why don't you just admit that you are a "bully" too, even when you are just teasing.......

@ 10, I see no uncle-crying here.

The day you start cleaning up your speech is the day you start losing. Please don't let them guilt you into toning your rhetoric down. Don't let them dictate or alter your behavior or message.

The walkout was planned from the very beginning, in a pathetic attempt to show that gays are the real bullies. They failed epically. If these students' beliefs are so fragile that they fear being challenged on them, then perhaps they don't really have very strong beliefs to begin with. I would have referred to them as cowards instead of pansy-assed. Everything you said was 100% factual. If they don't agree with your message, they should be able to refute everything you've said. Instead they did the childish thing and symbolically stuck their fingers in their ears, in the hopes that they can still pretend that their beliefs are pure and just. The only ones they're fooling are themselves.

Great job, Dan. Keep up the good fight.

Actually, I should not have commented at all without having watched the video of what you really said. In no way did you call Christianity bullshit. Walking out was pansy-assed, and the people griping about the statement that there is bullshit in the Bible that good people ignore because they are good people and calling it an "attack on Christianity/Christians" (either way) are morons. They are not good people.

#9

I was actually referring to the fictional detective Cannon.

http://ctva.biz/US/Crime/Cannon_WilliamC…

This has been a Quinn Martin production.

@16

Yes, when I watched, it was obvious that they'd planned it from the beginning because they were all smiling and giggling. One kid even gave another a "thumbs up." If they'd truly felt "bullied," that wouldn't have been the case.

I too agree with #1. It's WAY past time Christianity gets called on its bullshit. Keep up the good work, Dan. NEVER back down.

The sooner our civilization is done with the need to believe in invisible sky fairies, the better off we'll all be.

Did you guys know Dan Savage is from the 60s?

Daniel Keenan "Dan" Savage (born October 7, 1964)[2] is an American author...

I thought he was like 34 or something but he's the same age as my sister.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Savage

In full agreement with #1. It's way past time that Christianity gets called out on the utter and complete nonsense and hypocrisy it's passing itself off as these days. It's BULLSHIT and it needs to be screamed from the rooftops. Keep up the fight, Dan, and NEVER back down.

The sooner this civilization is done with the need to believe in invisible sky fairies the better off it will be.

I'm with you Dan, and you paint peeling mouth.

This isnt the Rights fault. Shit. They'll use ANYTHING to attack. This is what happens when people with honest convictions based in fact start listening to the over-reactive whines of the language police of the far left. They begin apologizing for the truth. Who ever gets offended most wins!

Why SHOULDN'T you call Christianity bullshit? Why is it that of all philosophical forms religion gets an automatic pass? In the marketplace of ideas ( ain't The Right all about the market proving ground) everything is up for scorn and criticism. Now in one on one discussions avoiding insults and harshness is polite. But speeches are platforms. Not discussions. Stop being a pansy and stop apologizing for having facts and ethics on your side.

You did a fine job, Dan. And your response to the "outrage" was more gracious than that handful of prissy teenagers deserved.

As for the adults that put them up to it, I'm sorry they are so insecure in their faith.

Bravo, Dan Savage! Thanks for your honesty, your courage and your apology/clarification. It's a pity it won't be read by the complaining teen "Christianists." But the truths stated by Dan need to be repeated over and over till they hear them. The Bible is full of crap, however much "good" it may have as well.

Apology not necessary.
All I saw was a bunch on young people unwilling to listen to any challenge to the basis of their entire belief system - of course it is going to hurt but it isn't bullying.

Bullying would be to say that all christians are dirty, damned, diseased and immoral; some christians meet some of these criteria some of the time but these words don't define christianity any more than they define homosexuality.
Yet this is essentially what groups like Focus Of The Family believe is an acceptable view to hold - with christian love.

What's the matter Dan? Where does it really hurt? Did daddy up and leave you? Did mommy emasculate you and over-protect you? What is the real root of all your pent-up anger and rage? You're gay because you need other men to validate the existence of your penis and yet... it's never fulfilling enough. You need something more to satisfy to darkest corner of your soul. So, why not beat up on the faith and the people of faith with a paternal Father figure at the helm - the father figure that is missing in your life. Does that make it feel better? Do you feel more fulfilled? Nope! And still, despite all of the attention you get from other misguided souls, you're still not fulfilled. It's okay Dan - even as you unleash your misdirected rage, God the Father still loves you and hopes you and all of your lost followers will find your way home. The doors are always open to join the rest of us sinners who are no better than you. Peace!

Wumpers,

If there is a God the Father out there, he must be face-palming hard right now at the assholes and morons presuming to represent him.

@26 I helped fix your anonymous letter (why is it that you "proud" Christians are always anonymous online ghosts who disappear at the slightest provocation?):

You are a snarky man who must have been bullied by a lot of people growing up. As a Christian I pray for your soul because you are obviously lost if you want to point out the blatant hypocrisy in the Bible to a bunch of High Schoolers. As a Christian I have never once condemned or bullied people for their homosexual tendencies physically or to their face, only verbally to like minded people and while none are around to contradict me. Your use of fact makes me want to pound your (and other gay people's) skull in, but as a Christian I will not stoop to your level as far as this anonymous internet post is concerned.

You really need to go away Dan Savage and stop saying anything so my shitty, Bronze Age ideology can keep going unchallenged since you are the only person I have ever heard talk about the Bible outside of my own bigoted and sheltered family.

Is that what you meant to say? No thanks needed =)

Nice apology, pansy-ass. I never thought you of all people would be capable of such spineless crap. What? are you planning on running for office or something?

A bunch of smug bigots whine loudly in fake outrage at you calling them on their bullshit and you back-pedal like a pandering Democratic politician in a second? This from the guy behind the Santorum bomb?

We get angry when they lie and smear and their answer is to tell us to fuck off. They get angry when we point out the truth and we respond by FUCKING APOLOGISING.

I need to find a new word to call myself because I'm starting to think "liberals" really are weak. Its weakness is ironically the flip side of our biggest strength: diversity and tolerance. Somehow tolerance and respect of people's *rights*, became "anything other than genuflection to all ideas and beliefs, no matter how stupid or harmful is AN ATTACK!"

Nice apology, pansy-ass. I never thought you of all people would be capable of such spineless crap. What? are you planning on running for office or something?

A bunch of smug bigots whine loudly in fake outrage at you calling them on their bullshit and you back-pedal like a pandering Democratic politician in a second? This from the guy behind the Santorum bomb?

We get angry when they lie and smear and their answer is to tell us to fuck off. They get angry when we point out the truth and we respond by FUCKING APOLOGISING.

I need to find a new word to call myself because I'm starting to think "liberals" really are weak. Its weakness is ironically the flip side of our biggest strength: diversity and tolerance. Somehow tolerance and respect of people's *rights*, became "anything other than genuflection to all ideas and beliefs, no matter how stupid or harmful is AN ATTACK!"

@Dan,

Perhaps you should have said that walking out was cowardly. You could have said walking out was un-Biblical, because they are commanded to stand and give an answer. They are told to trust that they will be given the words they need to address you. But this was a staged event. Just like the "Day of Dialogue" that is planned on the Thursday proceeding the "Day of Silence".

The Bible is full of contradictions. Practicing Christians all cherry pick and give selective attention to certain passages. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the hypocrisy of their chosen belief system. Nothing wrong asking them to think critically. There is nothing wrong pointing out that they ignore 600+ Levitical commands. Or pointing out that slavery is socially acceptable within the books of the Bible and has been used as justification. If their feelings got ruffled then that is because deep down their conscience was pricked. Still, I don't think the majority are wounded. No they are enjoying their brief celebrityhood because they walked out on Dan Savage.

Continue the good fight. Keep up the good work.

The use of "bullshit" and "pansy-assed" gave them an easy target for their tantrum, and made it easier to drum up popular support. They probably would have been upset anyway, but there is no need to make it easier for them.

I'm really glad this happened. I'm going to be sharing the video for MONTHS! Thank you, Dan.

as a christian myself, i think you have not one thing to apologize for. i'm glad someone with a platform is calling out hypocritical christians on their bullshit. and it IS bullshit. if would be different if you never ever used such foul language (omg, my poor ears!), but for crying out loud! it's your trademark. "pansy-assed" -- i think if you regret that one, it's great you said sorry. and meant it. but bullshit is bullshit and dan savage's stock in trade is to call it out. no apologies.

DAN WHAT ARE YOU DOING!? Don't Apologize! The people making the biggest stink are the very ones who needed to hear it. And it was all true. Plus, you've said it all before.

Are you worried about the ratings for your MTV show or something? The people who are making noise right now are not the ones who are potentially watching your show.

THE BIBLE HAS BULLSHIT IN IT, DEAL WITH IT PANSY ASSED BITCHES!

Relgion is the worship of Death and the refusal to acknowledge sexual pleasure. As such it is your enemy, Dan. It's certainly mine -- and any other thinking person gay or straight. You have nothign to apologize for and a tone and a half to be proud of.

While I'm firmly in the camp that no apology is required here, it's nice to see that Savage had finally learned how to give one. Previous Dan Savage apologies have had a petulant, I-know-I-am-but-you're-worse tone. I lost a lot of respect for him during FatGate, when the apology he offered Lindy West was whiny, "Nu-uh-y," and a discredit to thinking people everywhere.

Baptists don't apologize to Catholics, Christians don't apologize to Muslims, and Buddhist don't apologize to the Hindu, so why should you apologize to assholes?

All you people sound like Republicans with your screw-an-apology bluster. It's relatively easy to double-down on your errors. It's a whole lot harder to admit that you're wrong and then apologize.

Saying that the Bible is full of "bullshit" to an audience of students in an assembly about journalism, or school bullying, or whatever it was, is wrong because it is grossly inconsiderate and insulting to Christian students - even if Dan was right in his larger point (which he was). "Bullshit" is an aggressive word. It is the verbal equivalent of shoving you. The reason the fine distinction Dan talks about in this post doesn't hold is that Christianity, or the Christianity of the fundies, with all its looney tenets, is more than a set of believes. It is who they are, their identity. You can't stand in front of a Christian and say that Christianity is bullshit without making the implicit accusation that the Christian, at its best, is a complete idiot and fool for believing it. How can the Christian not be insulted? How can he not feel that his very self is being attacked?

As for the walkout: Dan is a famous guy at this point and the savvier of the students already had an idea of what to expect from him - and an opinion about it. It's perfectly possible that a few of them had decided to walk out as soon as Dan started talking smack about the Bible. My opinion from watching the video is that it wasn't staged at all. The walkout started once Dan had begun tearing into the Bible and it was a long while until the last student left. If it had been planned then they would have all risen en masse as soon as Dan had started talking and left quickly. It wouldn't have been a drawn out procession.

Disagree with that analysis (and I know you will), but how would you feel if the speaker had been that gay-hating, everything-hating American-Taliban preacher-cum-indie rocker from the Midwest who recently did a controversial anti-bullying school program where a number of students rightfully protested, loudly? Would you say that students walking out of one of his presentations were "pansy-assed"? No; you would say that they are courageous for standing for their beliefs and protesting by walking out, and you'd be cheering them if they took their hurt feelings to a court of law.

Well, I say the same thing about the students that walked out. A small minority did; the large hooting mass of them stayed. Being the small, visible minority takes courage. It takes courage to willingly stick out like a sore thumb. I particularly give mad props for the first couple few - in a room of thousands - who stood up and walked out. That demonstrates independent thinking and strong conviction, elements that are needed in a healthy democracy. This holds even if it was staged, which I don't think it was.

And it takes courage and humility to apologize. How many days did we have to wait to get a mea culpa out of Rush Limbaugh? Has Ted Nugent ever apologized? Has Sarah Palin? Michael Savage? Our own lovely registered trolls? All those clowns? They're so insecure and so vested in their bluster that they are afraid to show a little vulnerability. And even here, Dan couldn't apologize without going into "distinctions", like he was qualifying the apology. But I understand. Dan is a man of strength, and it's especially hard for someone of strength to admit that he/she is wrong on something. But Dan did it and we didn't have to wait a week, so I give him credit. Never admitting fault is something that we can expect from the immature figures of the right. We on the left can be the mature adults.

While I don't feel that you did anything you need to apologize for, I think it's big of you to do so anyway. Maybe the wording could have been different, but hey, with passion sometimes comes cussing.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is not necessarily applicable to homosexuality, but it is not a meaningless distinction. It's about characterizing behavior rather than people. Love the sinner hate the sin has huge implications in attitudes towards criminals, for example. Without this philosophy, far fewer people would support paying for reeducation programs in prisons, stopping the sin by supporting the sinner.

The real problem with it is that, like many religious tenets, it should be acted upon rather than quoted in people's faces in a self-righteous tone.

It's a classy explanation and apology. None of that "sorry to anyone offended" crap.

How rational people can base their lives on a book that has been mistranslated and edited repeatedly is beyond me. The bible is a fairytale. Dan shouldn't have apologized. Period. I love his intensity, his passion & his potty mouth. Plus he's hot! I've got your back.

@51 (and others)

Is invoking MLK a kind of anti-Godwin move? What would the argument be? That MLK and Rosa Parks, etc., were great leaders, but the Civil Rights movement would have been way better if they'd been atheists?

As others stated, it is obvious that the walkout was planned before hand. But, you should have anticipated such and adjusted your speech accordingly.

Addressing a congress of high school journalists, you could have discussed how they should go back to Des Moines, Racine, Biloxi and Fresno and seek to publish their own internet news sites...as you have done in Seattle. You could have stressed that they need to do this to counter the increasing conservatism of surviving newspapers. You could have illustrated how your own publication has an author who just won a Pulitzer.

Then, you should have gone on about why you created the It Gets Better Project, outlining the real problems that gay youth face.

Finally, you could have laid out your cards and explained to the impressionable kids the true nature of American Christianity. This would have been a teachable moment and could have incorporated a little swearing for emphasis (if needed).

Those who staged the walkout would have been gone long before your speech's conclusion.

Very trolly (trollish?) in here for a Sunday.

Dan, that was a very gracious apology. I thought your speech was rather sweet and low-key, given the offensiveness of the topic.

And, I have to say, you just get better and better looking as time goes on.

This straight woman has a little bit of a crush.

@45, yes. Dan Savage personally intercepted your post and messed up your link because he didn't like what it said. It has nothing to do with the site's formatting. You've uncovered the grand conspiracy! Happily, he was outwitted when you added the spaces. What a clever person you are.

@15 I agree with you 110%!!!

It disgusts me how Americans hold others responsible for their personal offendedness. "You used a naughty word and it hurt my feelings!" It offends me more that American media feeds this beast. If you don't like the words people use to describe your bullshit, and the meaning of those words are nonetheless accurate, then waah-fucking-waah. Grow the fuck up, you childish scrota... I'm saddened that Dan has to offer any apology at all for the words he used to speak the fucking truth, but there it is... He is a fish swimming in American cultural waters. I'm just grateful he's so smart and so willing to continue speaking his mind.

As usual, Kim in Portland put my thoughts much more eloquently than I could.

As I mentioned before, I did youth ministry in the Catholic church before I came to the conclusion that I couldn't be Catholic anymore (long story, won't share here). One of my biggest frustrations as a youth minister was that we expected the teenagers to accept what we told them blindly because it was church doctrine. We buried that little bit in the catechism that says that, in matters of faith and morals, we are obliged to follow our consciences, even when where they lead us differs from offical church teaching. If the Pope (or a Pope, sometime in the 13th century) said it, it must be right, right?

Personally, I can't function with a faith like that. My faith leads me to read what the Scriptures say, process it through my experience of the Divine and the reality of my life, and draw my own conclusions. And I'm grateful I found a denomination that not only allows that but encourages it.

Fight the good fight, Dan. You may be an agnostic (or atheist, for all I know), but you are a better follower of Jesus than a lot of people who bear the name "Christian."

If Christians spent half as much time parsing the words of the Bible as they do the speeches of Dan Savage, they'd recognize the Bible's bullshit for what it is and stop being such fucking hypocrites.

Slavery-apologist at 43 and 45:
You have certainly made the point that the bible has a LOT to say about slavery.

But, I don't care about the more nuanced and contextual discussions of slavery in the bible. It's STILL slavery. Get it? The point is that the bible has been used to justify modern slavery. In this country! And recently!

Here's your link

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics…

@47,
I'm not inclined to agree that the walkout was a spontaneous response to the word "bullshit", floater. Because the first student passed the camera before the "we can learn to ignore the bullshit" came out of Dan's mouth. It may have not been a orchestrated event, but it is likely that many of them had decided in advance that they would not listen to the use of scripture to justify bullying or criticism of any sort with regard to Christianity or the Bible. It is also likely that many of them walked out purely because their friends did.

Could Dan have chosen kinder synonyms? Yes. I'm not sure it would have made a big difference, though. Perhaps I'm applying too much of my experience to their lives, but critical thinking and questioning about the chosen interpretation or emphasis applied to selected scripture by ones church was viewed as a moral failing and as evidence that one was under attack by Satan. I was told that I was not a true believer and that my eternal soul was at risk because the devil had a hold on me. Consequently, that is how I see these students. Many are weighed down by guilt and taught not to question or think critically. And that there walking out was about protecting the belief system they were raised in from facing the contradictions found within the Bible. And, I'm glad that Dan realizes that he could have made different word choices for his message. His message was good. It needs to be said. He gave them a gift. In order to become the best person they can be, you could say the person that God created them to be, they must think critically. They must be able to defend what they believe inorder for it be real. To use a Biblicalism they must refine their beliefs and skim the dross.

Just my $0.02. And thank you for your thoughts.

Kind regards.

I wonder what is going through the minds of the walk-outs. Were they deliberately planted there by Fox News and paid to walk out? Most kids, even Christian kids, just don't care that much. When was the last time you saw a kid voluntarily praying in school, for example? It's not that they are not allowed to, they just don't want to.

If I were Dan I would avoid mentioning the Bible at all in this sort of situation. It's not good to feed the Christian persecution complex, and besides it is not just the Bible that is against homosexuality, it is every other major religion as well. There have also been some secular movements that targets homosexuals, such as the eugenics movement.

I'm a non-believer so these epesodes serve as entertainment or not.

Apology was necessary as a familiar vehicle for Dan Savage to make an important point to the "offended". It helped bring readers and followers along a path where the hypocracy could be demonstrated.

Well played.

I don't think an apology was necessary because everything that Dan said was factual. There should not be any need to apologize for facts.

I'm not going to get into "tone trolling" and say that if he used word X instead of word Y then everything would have been better and some of the people who left would have stayed and been positively influence by his comments. Because I don't believe that would be the case.

Nor an I going to get into whether he should have left out those comments completely. I'm sure Dan knows what kind of bullying happens to gay kids better than I do and how the religious people justify it.

But I will say that the way this is being spun by those same religious people as an "attack" is nothing more than them trying to play the victim here so that THEY can set the tone and the limits of the discussion.

The mean homosexual used bad words to describe their holy book USED TO JUSTIFY ABUSES AGAINST HOMOSEXUALS when he pointed out the factual inconsistencies that it contained and it hurt the innocent children.

And when they left because they didn't want to be hear more mean words about the book USED TO JUSTIFY ABUSES AGAINST HOMOSEXUALS by the mean homosexual he called their actions another mean phrase.

Dan, switch it around a bit. Move it back in time and make the focus about the abuses of slavery. Then put it in the South. And ask yourself if a black man should apologize for calling those laws "bullshit" and offending the white students.

Religion is bullshit.

Seeing as this was a high school presentation, using milder language is necessary. I feel that saying the kids were pansy-assed for leaving diluted Dan's overall message. Calling out parts of the Bible as bullshit? Totally accurate. Maybe if Dan had reordered his message, talking about the good parts of the Bible first, could have kept some of those kids in their seats. But since they are supposed to be journalism students, they need to learn that their job is to listen to the messages and report them, not necessarily become the news themselves.

I'm glad Dan apologized for the words, and for the possible bullying of those kids who walked out. I'm also glad he stood his ground on the overall message. Hopefully, when the kids grow up more, they will see that the world is not black-and-white. Diversity is absolutely essential, and the only thing that makes life worth living. We should celebrate diversity, not spend all our energy trying to destroy it.

@44 "Baptists don't apologize to Catholics, Christians don't apologize to Muslims, and Buddhist don't apologize to the Hindu, so why should you apologize to assholes?"

Because they are kids and he is an adult. Calling bullshit on the hateful parts of the bible is something that needs to be done more, and criticizing religious beliefs that are hateful, harmful, or demonstrably wrong is not bullying. But the apology for the "pansy-ass" comment was well done.

"Pansy-ass" is a lot kinder than the more accurate "cowardly". Good apology though. Smart, gracious and savvy.

Enjoying these comments, especially Kim's.

Next time, I hope you call the Quran BS too!!!!!!

Thanks, Kim @62, but regardless of the plan or impetus behind the walkout, it's still direspectful, to say the least, to berate a person's religious beliefs in front of him, particularly when you have the bully pulpit (if I can use that phrase) and the religious person is the captive audience. Hell, I'll go so far as to say it was abuse of power. I'm sorry, but if I'm a Christian, then Christianity is what I am, what I live (or should, anyway), my culture, etc. If someone tells me that what I live, what I identify with, is "bullshit," what is he saying about me? How should I feel? And should I just sit there in silence while goes on with this with the crowd around me cheering him on? Hell, no. The *least* I can do is walk out. The more assertive path is to stand up and call him out in the middle of the assembly, but these are high school students. This isn't about listening to criticism of your worldview, because this isn't a fair attempt dialogue. This is Dan giving out a piece of his mind, berating and tearing up the Bible - not merely commenting on it - and then adding insult to injury by making fun of the students that walked out. It showed a complete lack of consideration. Words *are* important. His use of the word "bullshit" *is* the big deal here. I understand why Dan feels so passionately about the role of the Bible in society - I'm a liberal and an atheist, which is worse than Dan - but tearing at beliefs and, by extension, believers doesn't gain him, and us, anything. He was right to apologize. As much as some of us fans of his oppose religious conservatism and support progressive politics, we can't alienate the whole group of believers by claiming that their lives are based on bullshit, that they're too stupid to recognize bullshit, because some believers would be willing to listen to us, and because incidents like this broadly paint us liberals as intolerant, the same thing we accuse of them.

It may -- and I mean may -- only have been ungracious to use the word "bullshit" to describe parts of the bible if christians did not use use the hate in the bible to destroy. They pick their word weapons from the bible, and we can describe their weapons as we see fit!

If they wanted their text to be sacred, they would not use them for evil purposes. You can't use the bible for evil, and then claim that all of it is sacred and good. There are evil profanities in the bible that christians will not leave alone, to idly sit on a shelf. They started to word battle, and we have to have to balls to finish it.

@71
The Bible has been used as a weapon to attack LGBT people. They have every right to defend themselves by bashing it.

I understand your motivation. Everyone wants to be loved. But religion IS bullshit and so was the staged walkout. Never apologize for the truth.

I agree w/ the substance of what you had to say, Dan, but yeah, was a little put off by almost opening w/ "bullshit" (which although true of religion in general, you had to know would be off-putting) & the use of pansy-assed..that *really* bothered me: I imagined it was something you yourself got called as a bullied teen. Saying "cowardly" would have been better. The audience wasn't the same as your readers here @ the Stranger, nor even as old as the kids on "Savage U".

BUT! More importantly, beautifully worded apology. Ya shouldn't have to apologize to those who are trying to oppress, discriminate against & persecute us, but you've had a huge shift in position & influence since you were in high school. The above is a moment of you handling that with grace & aplomb.

Damn eloquent.

P.S. to religious folks, if your beliefs can't stand up to being challenged, if questioning them in any way upsets you, perhaps you should think about that.

Christians don't read the Bible selectively; Christians know when to apply something that was established for the nation of Israel as God's covenant people and when to not apply those laws and commands. Unfortunately, it fits your biased agenda to twist the words of Scripture to your own ends by calling Christians hypocrites for not applying laws that were not intended for Christians but for Jews.

theanthistemi.blogspot.com

I'm currently teaching the part of the Bible, in Ephesians, discussed by the columnist in his mention of slavery and the Bible, and I think it would be helpful for people to read from a Bible commentary by JB Coffman on this topic. In short, it says that we would not have been able to know that slavery was wrong if we weren't told it from the Bible, and that other evils in the world spring from ignoring what the Bible teaches us.

"It should be noted that it was not the truth alone which could change the world; it was the truth in Christ the Lord! The duty of masters to their slaves, fathers to their children and husbands to their wives, etc., was not just splendid theory. The living Christ at the right hand of God would require of every man an accounting of his deeds at the judgment of the Great Day. No man would escape it!

Shallow and unperceptive persons of our own times tend to be critical of New Testament teaching because no hard, definitive commands are uttered demanding the abolition of slavery; but it was clear to Christ and the apostles that laws never made people better; only an inward change could accomplish such a purpose as that. Paul's instructions here did not free slaves; but, as Dummelow said, "It freed slavery of its evils," and set in motion forces that would ultimately destroy, not only slavery, but other evil institutions as well.

In this connection, the resurgence of humanism in these times should be noted. Turning away from God, people are obsessed with the notion that, in themselves, they can make everything all right, with their laws, social gains and planned programs of all kinds; but it is no more possible to accomplish worthwhile human societies away from God than it is to produce a crop of apples from uprooted trees. "The New Testament presents the demands of the kingdom of God as prior to those of a utopian society on this earth ... Love of God is still the first and great commandment, love of neighbor second. Worshiping and serving the creature more than the Creator, however, drowned the pre-Christian world in debaucheries; and, if indulged, it will do it again!""

@80
Oh please like any of you trolls give a shit when your ilk promote lies about the LGBT community, encourage "corrective rape", and promote murdering us. What Savage said is absolutely nothing compared to what has been done to us in the name of religion.

Having watched that portion of the keynote address, via Schmader's post, I'm baffled that you feel the need to apologize for it. I don't see anything you shouldn't feel comfortable standing behind.

@75 I disagree with the blanket statement that "religion is bullshit." It's the people. Dishonest, lazy, selfish, scheming, egocentric, credulous, malevolent or ignorant people are capable of making bullshit out of anything. That said, a lot of people have made a lot of bullshit out of Christianity. But, that doesn't mean that its core message of Peace, Equality, Community, Charity, Simplicity and Integrity is the problem.

@78, I don't recall religious leaders leading the abolition of slavery. I do recall the Vatican siding with the Nazis and celebrating Hitler birthday. If we're going to revisit history, then like Dan says let's write out all of the hate and intolerance in the bible. It's not a religion if it tolerates hate. I agree that gay rights are the human rights issue, although the Republicans are trying to roll back women's rights as a wedge - just no shame.

Well, really people were just upset because this speaker verbally abused children when he was in a position of power. He was the worst type of bully. And this person has done this before. Really- who licks objects in an office to spread his body fluids and try to infect others with illness? Who does that? Well, this guy does. He's no better than the McDonalds worker who spit in the cup of the customers he was serving recently. There is nothing respectable or decent about this man and he should under no circumstances be visiting our White House, influencing decisions made about our country, or having unsupervised contact with children.

I prefer a Dan Savage who can call anyone's religion bullshit and not have to bullshit about it. He's not acting strong as ovaries but weak as a scrotum.

@85, Quakers, and evangelical do-gooders in the north east, certainly were leading in the abolitionist movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionis…

@85: "It's not a religion if it tolerates hate." ? Sorry, but it most certainly can be. It would be nice if your sentiment was true, but we have ample evidence of religions that not only tolerated, but advocated hate.

jesus h. tapdancing christ, did any of you idiots even READ the entire post?

Dan did NOT say the students were pansy-assed. he did not say the bible was bullshit. he said their ACTIONS were pansy-assed. he said certain biblical VERSES were bullshit. you numbnuts fail to see that people are NOT their behavior, nor are verses the bible. there is a distinct difference, one that you have failed to grasp.

This is not an apology. this is expanding on and explaining what he said. if you don't grok this, you truly are ignint 'n shit.

@78: It's a pretty big stretch to claim that we would not know that slavery is wrong, if not by the grace of god (or some such crap). You then go on to claim that we can thank god and religion for enlightened, humanistic thought.

Wow. I'm sure that's what they taught you at Bob Jones University...

In your practice of apologetics, you're making some pretty bold claims. And, you're also definitely not allowing any shred of doubt to interfere with or intrude upon your religious certitude. Now, that's what I call TRUE FAITH!

@86, most of the students I taught in college tried that trick of spreading illness in the hope that by giving me their flu/cold/whooping cough that class would be cancelled. It's far from uncommon for students of all religious and political persuasions.

As far as it goes, my sister, the ordained pastor, agrees with you, Dan, that there is a lot of bullshit in the Bible. Paul himself refers to his own life as shit in Acts 20, although you need to read the original Greek for the unsanitized version.

And for those who say that the Bible can't be manipulated because it's the word of God, here's a present from an old pastor friend of mine. Read these verses in this order.

Matthew 27:5
Luke 10:37

@71,

I disagree that the message was disrespectful, Floater. The word choice, yes, but not the message itself. I understand how they felt. I've been both the Christian being called a moronic idiot for having been raised one and the abomination Christian for supporting LGBT rights. I understand feeling trapped. Being an adult surivor of physical and mental abuse. I have a very defined definition of what it means to be abused and scars to show for it. I don't agree they were abused. They were presented with facts about the Bible's use to justify bullying behavior at a secular event. They did not like the truth and they walked out. They deserved an apology for being called "pansy-assed", it was an unnecessary and unkind dig. The use of the word "bullshit" was not the best choice for this event. And, Dan apologized. The message itself was good.

I don't know the reason behind Dan's being invited to speak, but I'd gather it is tied to the IGBP. If the invitation stems from the creation of the IGBP then there is context for his message that is relevant and important. Let us not forget that there may have been some LGBT Christians (and non-Christians) who needed that exact message, needed to know that the Bible can be wrong. Needed to be reminded that the Bible is comprised of words on a page and actual human minds must translate those symbols and give them meaning. I know a 16 year old with a lovely singing voice, she made All-State, and she had been dismissed from her church choir because someone else told the minister of music that she suspects that she is bisexual. Never-mind that she has never dated. They have already convicted and publically dismissed her. Her parents make her attend every Sunday. I wonder what she would think of Dan's message? I gather she understands what it means to be trapped, better than any of those students who walked out. And, I wonder if having been through this experience if these students have gained any compassion for those who actually are bullied or for those who find themselves trapped by their desire to evangelize them?

By the way, you may find knowing that groups of Christians agree with Dan. Maybe some of those cheering students were Christians who are sick and tired of seeing the Bible used as a tool to justify abuse. Had our two teenagers been at that confrence they would have been nodding in agreement with Dan, and would not felt that Dan was abusing their persons. Neither would have cared for the "pansy-assed" comment, because it was mean spirited.

I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.

@84 / Brooklyn Reader (OMG I miss NY) - you are right. I should have said, "some of" or "parts of" religion = bullshit. I have met some good religious folks, for whom their faith is a motivator to do good works & etc. Since most of the message of Christianity in the news is anti-gay-weddings or anti-abortion, it's easy to forget that.

Kim @ 93 said everything I meant to, but better. As usual.

I walk out on hate speech no matter who is giving it. I've walked out on Christian leaders for telling racist jokes or seemingly innocent remarks that clearly show the dark heart of the speaker. Not because I'm a pansy-ass but because I am showing my disdain for such insensitivity. Walking out is a form of protest, I will not sit in quiet complicity when someone says something that is insensitive or racist, nor will I sit quietly by when someone says something that is patently intended to hurt or anger another person. I walk out because it gets my point across without being disrespectful to the process. I will not yell at you or anyone else, that just makes me look like Wildling.

Floater,

These may or may not interest you.

http://johnshore.com/2012/04/29/dan-sava…

https://www.change.org/petitions/christi…

#92 Are you actually arguing that it is normal behavior for an adult to try to spread disease to others by licking objects in an office? Are you actually saying that "most" of the students in the classes you taught did this as well? I say you are a liar, as in all of my college years, and all of my years of adult life the only people I knew/heard of spreading bodily fluids deliberately to cause harm were those who I read about in the paper who were jailed for their criminal behavior. If you are in fact saying that there is a college somewhere where students behave like this I'm sure you won't mind mentioning the college name since it is so common and everyone is doing it.

@90 Shh! You're getting in the way of their self-pity routine.

86/99, why do you feel the need to lie? We've seen the tape, and no one was "verbally abused."

This is why your side is losing.