Oh yeah, a classic DTMFA. Dump the deadbeat, honey.

I'm with 1. Degree? Unemployment moola? He's a mooch.

When you are being deputized as a Slogger, oh god this is too sad, you are being Lady Gaga'd into little monsters. Bad Joke. Sorry.

Agreed. Who says friends can't become lovers?

Give it a shot with an agreement beforehand that if you don't work out in a dating relationship that your friendship comes first. I made that arrangement with a bf 20 years ago. We only lasted two years together, but he's still a dear friend - he and his husband of 16 years are part of my gay family.

As for the lazy, complacent boyfriend...getting dumped may be the knock on his ass that gets him to take stock of his life and do something. He's only 22 and can easily survive on ramen and friend's couches for a while.

Dump him now or you'll be sorry. I guarantee it.

Kick the current boyfriend to the curb. "No motivation at this time"? Uh... yikes.

There'll be plenty of time to figure out what's up with your friend and you once you break up with your boyfriend. So, keep in mind that this attraction to your friend is probably at least partially because you've started to see you can have someone better than your boyfriend. Whether or not, and how, you should act on your attraction is a question for after your deadbeat boyfriend is out of your apartment and you've been out for celebratory drinks with your purely platonic buddies.

Just don't be afraid to give yourself a little time to be single and get your bearings, ok?

24, and successful with your own business? You're a real catch, and you shouldn't be settling for somebody who's 22 with no ambition.

Then, again, at 22 a good portion of people are in their post-degree floundering. If you believe this is his general MO and not a temporary state of affairs...

And, if you're not into the whole non-monogamous thing, and also not a fan of his bisexuality (nor his plans to remain mono despite his past infidelities), just dump him already. Kick him back to his parents. Rejected and all that.

DTMFA.

Time to dump him, if she stays she'll be miserable. Sounds more like she wants permission to be selfish for once

Yes, obviously dump the current boyfriend. But where are you getting the idea that dating friends is bad?

You and your boyfriend have completely different ideas about monogamy, sexuality, and your future. You are both super young. Break it off. Financial dependance is a super lame reason to stay together at this stage of your life.
New guy may or may not work out, but it's a bit of a red herring. You need to break it off with your current, with or without someone new in the picture.

Break up with your boyfriend today.

DTMFA. Not to mention you'd be doing him a favor, having to fend for yourself can be a pretty good motivator.

I'm glad so many have taken so much time to read and think the matter to completion and give effective and nuanced advice, taking all matters into consideration.

God knows that no-one in the history of the human race who was ever a good person, ever fell into unemployment, ennui, and financial difficulty.

But we know so well that Americans are such hardy creatures, having lived tough, lean lives, willing to stick through financial and material hardship for the sake of love.

It is now nearly a half hour since this matter's posting; my heart flutters happy within my chest to find so many who can talk so authoritatively with so little time for consideration.

It seems like she's staying with the BF because she feels bad about what may happen to him if she breaks up with him. That's a terrible reason to be with someone! It doesn't really matter what happens with the other guy. It may go somewhere; it may not. Regardless, the other guy is worth a shot, and I don't see any reason the BF is worth hanging on to.

I don't see any reason to be so hard on SFR's bf. The economy is bad, and a lot of people are unemployed, and it's difficult to feel motivated when you're unemployed. Most of us have been there, and most of us have eventually gotten over it, found jobs, and become productive again. It's also not unreasonable to support a partner through a period of unemployment, if you're committed to them and see a future for the relationship. Labeling a 22-year-old who's having a rough time as a "deadbeat" like @1 seems a bit harsh.

It sounds, however, like the real issue is that they aren't sexually compatible, and SFR isn't happy in the relationship, and thinks there might be something better in the offing. Those are excellent reasons by themselves to dump someone. DTPSA.

(= Dump The Poor Schmuck Already)

She says she is "almost 24" which means she is 23. When people always try and round up to the next year it is usually because they are somewhat immature and aspire to more maturity. I really think this girl has been in a long term relationship since she was 19 and she has not been growing up emotionally because of it. She has refused to leave the safe harbor of her current relationship even though it is hurting her constantly.

DTMFA

Make said BF watch Conan's graduation speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELC_e2QBQ…

If he gets it, give him two weeks probation then kick him to the curb if he does not show results.

DTMFA:

1. He's cheated on you repeatedly-- I note that "older men" is in plural.
2. There's some sexual incompatibility here: he wants to be cuckolded, and you want to be monogamous.
3. There is also marriage incompatibility, although granted 22-year-olds are generally not looking to get married quite yet.
4. He has no job and no plans for the future. You were dating since college, where everyone has the same goal more or less. You have since graduated and discovered that your goals are actually pretty different. Dump now.

All that said, SFR, I'm picking up a bit of a co-dependency vibe from you. You didn't consider dumping your deadbeat bf until after you met another guy, you "tend to give everything to relationships and not [get] much back," and marriage to you "shows you want to be with someone forever." I would recommend spending some time learning how to be alone before jumping into another relationship.

My $0.02.

@13
You missed the LW's question. Here, let me translate: I want to break up with my boyfriend. May I?

Yes or no? Answer the question. No elaboration necessary.

@ 13 - We only have this letter. We read it. From the scant info here, we can't see/guess that this is not going to work out. So we make the call.

You want to wait 3 hours before deciding? What, are you going to call up the letter writer and get more detail? Or wait for inspiration? This person does not sound into their significant other, and they are 24. Those factors suggest DTMFA probably 80% of the time.

DTMFA ftw.

He's just not into you. Move on.

> dating friends is probably a horrible idea

Why do young people always think this? I can almost guess the person's age as mid twenties.

Maybe it's because the young believe that their current friends are the only close friends they'll ever have.

What do you see as your future in 5 years, 10, 15? From your letter, I'm not seeing that you'll reach a point where your sexual incompatibility and communication issues will be resolved, or that you have common goals in life.

What do you have invested in this relationship that is so important that you'd rather be unhappily together than happily separated?

It bothers me that you say "I don't feel like my boyfriend has any options if I leave." You're not his mommy. He's not 6. It is not your responsibility to make sure another adult is fed, washed, clothed, housed. He is responsible for himself. That should not even be a consideration.

Sooo summing it up. The boyfriend is:
- Cheating on you with "older men" (hope he used protection and that you got tested!)
- Is pressuring you to sleep with other guys despite it making you uncomfortable (don't dismiss the idea that it might not sound so bad if it didn't come from such a douchebag).
- Has openly stated he has no interest in the life path you do (no marriage).
- Is out of work and with no plans to do anything except mooch off his successful girlfriend.

C'mon, if you're smart enough to have a business at 24, you knew writing this what the answer would be. Do what you already know you're going to do. Then go to this "close friend" and do the honorable thing and ask him to either leave his girlfriend or give you evidence that he has her permission to mess around.

Jesus H. Christ. A monkey banging on a keyboard could have told her the answer. @20 spelled it out exactly... she just wants someone to tell her what she wants to hear. Snore.

Youth is wasted on the young.

I think there are two issues here: 1) attraction to the friend, and 2) the (probable) lack of long-term prospects of getting what you want out of life with the current boyfriend. You really should consider them separately.

1--If you are partnered with anyone long enough, and make and maintain friendships among other people of the sex(es) in which you are interested, you will encounter many people that you might be interested in dating, etc., were it not for your pre-existing partnership. And some of them will feel the same way about you. This doesn't mean you are (necessarily) missing out on anything, if you have decided to be monogamous. If you decide to dump your current every time a friend gives you the warm fuzzies, you probably won't ever stay with anyone more than a few years. You should probably get used to this idea before marrying anyone.

2--THAT SAID...in this particular case, it doesn't sound like you are getting what you want out of the current relationship. That is a perfectly good reason (the best, really) to end it, particularly if you are so young. The fact that you are crushing on a friend right now is really irrelevant.

When you dump the current, you should really date around before settling down into anything exclusive with anyone, including your friend (if that happens). Stay friends with him, hell, date him if that works out. But don't jump right into another exclusive thing right away. You really haven't dated as an adult yet if you've been with the same guy since you were 17/18, and it will be time well-spent to get a little more perspective on this stuff.

It sounds like you and the BF want totally different things out of this relationship, and you are obviously not happy. You need to think about yourself and your own happiness here.

And dating friends is a good thing. It has worked for plenty of us. Just don't dump one guy and jump right into another serious relationship without giving yourself some time to be single.

First of all, I want to say that it's a much tougher decision to make when you're inside a pad situation and can see all the contingencies. But you can't make excuses for this guy forever. He is using you and being a mooch, and you are not helping him by enabling him to continue doing so. I have been in similar situations (more than once, sadly, but I've learned now) and the only answer is to get OUT. I know how overwhelming that seems when he's living with you. The logistics of it suck. But you will not be happy as long as you are with this guy, and it does sound like he has much to offer you in terms of a mutually fulfilling adult relationship.

Sex should be joyful and pleasurable for both partners. If his sexual needs are making you uncomfortable, that is a sign of a BAD MATCH, and your needs and desires should NOT be taking a back seat to his.

It's okay to be "selfish" in situations like this. So many women in our culture are raised to people-pleasers and care takers, and we're so afraid that when we don't fulfill this role, it makes us bad people somehow. It doesn't. Your first priority is to take care of YOU, because clearly this guy is not going to do it for you. In spite of the evidence at hand, he is an adult, and if he has a degree, I'm assuming his brain is at least moderately functional. HE CAN TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF. And it's about time someone "motivated" him to do so. So long as you continue to be a doormat, he will continue to treat you like one and continue using you both logistically and sexually.

As for dating friends, yes, sometimes it can end badly, as any relationship can. However, it is a much stronger foundation (assuming you're looking for a long-term relationship) than dating near-strangers based on little more than an initial physical attraction. Just think: with a friend, you already know one another well, and know you like each other for more than just superficial reasons. So give things with your friend a chance, but my advice would be to take things slowly, and keep the lines of communication open and honest. It a lot easier to turn "I'm not ready yet" into "yes" than "yes" into "no".

Wishing you the best of luck. Take care of yourself.

Skjaere

Break up with the boyfriend. You're already there in your mind, Reality just has to catch up with you. You have plenty of reasons to break up with him and, as a bonus, you have a guy waiting in the wings who might turn out to be your next boyfriend.

That said, you don't have to be mean and hateful to your boyfriend. Give him two weeks notice to move his body out of your apartment, with maybe an additional two weeks to get all his stuff out. That's plenty of time. It will be hard, no doubt about it, and there will probably be drama, but hold the line.

Otherwise you'll spend another year or five with this guy and not be happy and look back and wish you'd gotten rid of him NOW. Good luck.

Get out, and don't worry about him. His shit isn't your problem.

Do the thing you have already decided you want to do. Permission granted.

DTMFA, then spend some time with yourself. Take a few months to pursue your interests, embrace being alone, recognize just how much you have to offer. No dates, no hookups. And let your friend figure out his own situation without your involvement. You're 24 - you have plenty of time to be in a couple.

Your current boyfriend is 22. Stop trying to wish him into what you want him to be and cut him loose. He could use some alone time too, if only to rediscover his "motivation."

You believe in monogamy as "the only way," but you're putting up with a couch potato who cheated on you with older men? He's doing more than just claiming to be bi, honey - he's proving it. Why is this even a debate? As others have said, dump him. Quickly. What do you get out of this relationship?

I'm tempted to say: don't date the friend. It sounds like you have issues. That said, whether you date the friend or not, you'll still have issues, and at least he knows what he's signing up for. So go for it. The worst that happens is you lose a friend, but it sounds like the two have wanted to get into each other's pants the whole frickin' time...

First, DTMFA.

The current relationship don't work,
regardless of the situation with the "friend."

After she's been single for at least 1 month, preferably 6,
THEN she may want consider whether or to try connecting
with the "friend".

IF the "friend" also breaks up with the girl he's dating
when he sees that she's single, that's a pretty good
indication that it's worth a try.

She says she's inclined towards monogamy,
so she shouldn't be jumping into a situation where
there is a third person involved from the beginning.

You've already dumped him and started dating your friend in your mind anyway, so you might as well go all the way and make it reality.

Good heavens. Of course your boyfriend "has options." He's 22 with a degree and presumably a generally functioning adult. And it's not your job to martyr yourself to his alleged lack of options. He's your early-20s boyfriend, not your husband of three decades. That should not be the only thing keeping you in this relationship.

1. Your boyfriend is not boyfriend material. You may not get the reference, but honey, no scrubs, ok?
I do understand the feeling we women get after we get together with a wounded person, that we cant add to their wound burden. Not true. Their wounds are their own and yours are yours. Time to ask him to move.

2. Sleeping with your friends can do one of three things: 1. ruin the friendship 2. change a friendship into a loving relationship that lasts a long time 3. something in between.

at 23.9 years of age, you will do this over and over for the next many years; there is no soulmate / perfect person / ultimate life partner. no need not to start practicing the ethical break up and the ethical exploration with a friend now.

End the relationship.

Your boyfriend has wild oats to sew and adventures awaiting him, whereas you need to get on with schlepping through your boring and unremarkable life.

Yeah, dump him cleanly. And given the way you & your friend feel about relationships, I'd wait till he is done with his current girlfriend, as well, before taking things with him further. I say this based on your own description of your preferences.

As for leaving him with few options: honey, he's 22. He's got plenty of time to work things out if he take his head out of his ass, and frankly being dumped onto said ass may be the motivation he needs to move on and do things. What motivation has he got right now with free room and board (and presumably working toward a free licence to fuck around as he pleases? becasue that's exactly what he's looking for by encouraging you to fuck aruond [and not leave him]).

One q though. If he has, in your words "cheat[ed] with older men", then why do you say "claims to be bi" -- seems pretty established.

There is a lot to unpack here.

1. He has cheated on you.

2. You are not sexually compatible (although I question whether you have tried to be GGG)

3. He does other things you don't like.

4. You have different marital goals.

5. He is unemployed AND unmotivated, with no plans for the future.

6. You feel like he's holding you back.

Okay, this is part is simple. Items 1-6, taken together, point to an obvious, if not easy solution: DTMFA. Your relationship is functionally over; this is inevitable, so just finish with it the nicest and most efficient way possible. Best case scenario - he leaves soon of his own accord after you tell him to get out; worst case scenario, you have to end your lease and get your own new apartment because he squats. You are not responsible for his pesonal difficulties.

The next bit is trickier: you are developing feelings for this old friend and you two are having an emotional affair that has begun to get touchy feely. This is bad. Back off. First, his girlfriend doesn't deserve it.

Second, and most importantly, you have started a very bad habit, by putting this other guy in the place of your boyfriend as your emotional confidant - as your go-to guy for comfort and rescue. This is a type of escapism and romanticism that will hinder your ability to form and keep a good relationship. Stop it.

Unless you want to get into a pattern of emotionally bailing on your relationships when sticky issues arise but maintaining the relationships until they are rotting corpses while connecting with old friend/coworker/random joe X who just understands you so much better, until you and he get together and he becomes the unpalatable boyfrined and hte process starts all over again and your life is a chaotic progression of failed relationships, just stop.

here's how:

1. Dump your boyfriend

2. Tell old friend that you and he have become too close and it's interfered with both your relationships, and you're not going to talk to him or see him again until both of 2 things happen: a. 4 months pass; and b. he is single.

3. Date other people.

@4 I'd go so far as to say people who aren't already friends shouldn't be lovers. Barring of course one night stands. As to the current friend, I'm inclined to agree with the rest and say don't jump into another relationship immediately but assuming he breaks up with his current girl friend there's no reason I see to not be involved with him in the future if it becomes an option.

Yes, you need to break up with your boyfriend, and then take a moment to breathe while single before starting something new. There's nothing wrong with supporting a boyfriend through unemployment or other life difficulties, but you two simply don't sound compatible at all.

#40 LULZ and brutal.

What exactly do you get out of this relationship SFR? DTMFA.

DTMFA. The fact that he's a complete loser isn't your responsibility. You'll be better off without him.

Girl, make like Lee and Press On. DTMFA.

Off topic: for anyone interested who may have missed it in the SLLOT-Y thread, comment @143 is the unregistered response of the LW.

SFR,
I think you need to move on. And, I think that is what you want for yourself, you just want to be given permission. I think it is in your best interest to spend some time alone and figure out what you want from life. I, also, think it is in your boyfriend's best interest as well. He needs to be in a relationship that works with his bisexuality as it appears from your letter that he needs to express his attraction to both women and men. Good luck.

Break up with him, but do it gently. You have different standards of relationships, you want different things for your future, you don't seem sexually compatible; you have enough reasons to cite without piling on his self esteem when he's in a bad place. Tell him you still care about him (it seems that you do) but that you want to spend your life with someone who wants the same things. Wish him luck in the tough job market, thank him for the good times, and give him a month or so to find a place (with a firm deadline). If you still have dumper's guilt, buy him a new suit for job interviews and consider it some banked karma.

Am I the only one who thought the LW was a guy? The "friend" could be a bi dude?

@54: Me, too, up until the part where Dan refers to her as "she".

Speaking from experience, getting dumped might *not* actually motivate him to get out of his rut... but if he's still in the same rut in 5 years, aren't you better off without him anyways?

I want to develop physical feelings, too.

Break up with the boyfriend. His laziness and disinterest are not your problem and if his life track is anything like mine it's going to be another five years before he figures out how to manage the depression, ennui, closetedness or whatever else it is that's making him lazy and negligent.

Then do some hard thinking and get the fuck over your early-20s insecurity bullshit about how marriage "shows you want to be with someone forever," because if you're a regular reader/listener you should already know that "forever" is a fucking stupid standard to judge relationships against. If someone is with you and makes a life with you, that's your proof, right there. If you really want to get married, go ahead, but don't get so fixated on it as the only way to have a real, happy, successful relationship. You build a happy, successful relationship and then you get married.

You're in for some rough times no matter what you do. Breaking up is never fun, especially when it means evicting someone. This whole episode is probably going to hang over your new relationship for a while, too. You can stop worrying about that whole "dating friends" thing, though. Do you really think it's a terrible idea just because some of your peers say so? Have you ever tried it? Have they?

And that's IF you have a new relationship with this "friend," by the way, because nowhere in your letter do you actually give any evidence that he's willing to leave his girlfriend to hook up with you, which is presumably what you want.

Dump him. He cheated on you with older men, has no ambitions, plans or dreams.

Also, I'm an older man, with no particular need for a partner with ambitions, plans or dreams, and there are lots of guys like me. So don't go thinking he has no options if you dump him... he could become someone's houseboy!

First off, she doesn't mention love anywhere, and I agree with everyone saying she has already moved on, emotionally.

But I don't think her boyfriend will be devastated at the break-up. He's unhappy with their sex life himself, pushing her to sleep with other men, supposedly to "improve the relationship." He already knows the relationship is over. Either he's trying to build up some more wank material in his brain before she walks out the door. Or else he's sick of their drama, too lazy to do anything about it, and begging her to sleep with other men so she'll get up the initiative to dump him.

Meanwhile, in Webbys news, here's Dan's 5-word speech, according to a few people who retweeted it: "Tracy Morgan can suck my"

You and the current BF are a mis-match. He may not be awful, but he doesn't sound like he's making you happy, and the differences in what you want in each other will become worse over time. The fact that you're having feelings for someone else is a sign that you need more from a partner. Whether or not you find it in this friend is beside the point. You want more, you want something else, you have to go for it. If not with the friend, then make a clean break and keep looking. You deserve more.

The fact that the current BF is unemployed and has "nowhere to go" without you, not your problem. Sounds like he's taking you for granted to some degree, and he's using the comfort you give him to "coast" in his current state. Dumping him may actually give him the resolve to pick himself up and start doing something with his life. Stick with this guy much longer and you will one day find yourself supporting this deadbeat in ways that drain you financially and emotionally. Get out now while you're young and while the relationship isn't too co-dependent.

I wonder if she might feel that, having forgiven him for sleeping with older men, or at least not having dumped him for that, her current grounds for leaving just don't measure up. Why, just imagine the uproar if one of those older men had actually happened to be - shock! horror! (whether or not any tried to pass for thirty-four, successfully or otherwise) - FORTY-SIX!!! Now she has "legitimate but less glamourous" complaints, and a bit of a bad conscience as well muddling up her moral high ground. Somebody should write No-Fault Dumping for Dummies for her benefit.

However the dumping turns out, dating the friend would be a waste of time, at least in the foreseeable future. They are incompatible, and would not know what to do with each other. Each is used to giving everything and not getting much back. The lack of drama would bewilder them both; they'd end up marrying much too soon and one of them would almost certainly end up creating drama just for the comfort level. Let them give themselves time to develop.

Of course, dump him. But not to date the friend. Dump him because he needs to be dumped. You have no idea if your friend will dump his girl once you dump your guy. Time to grow up and be on your own for a bit.

Nearly everyone above me has already stated the obvious: you have incompatible goals with regards to sex, marriage, money ... let's face it, to life.

I'm even getting the vibe that your current bf's desires for cuckolding are enhanced by the fact that you're the one bringing home money. Wow - imagine his luck to be the bf of a woman who not only is the sole earner, but also fucks behind his back. That's being emasculated in two vital areas.

I'm also worried by your self-admitted desire to invest far more in a relationship than your partner. Yes, it's fabulous to be GGG, but I get the impression that - when you give - you're almost expecting to guilt your partner into remaining in a relationship with you, or even going so far as to marry you ('cuz, for you, that would probably equal the ultimate return on your investment).

I'll agree with the others: dump him, get used to living alone (and FFS liking it) before you rush off try to find a new relationship to invest in. You've already demonstrated that you're capable of taking care of yourself financially; now it's time to acquire a bit of emotional backbone as well.

It may seem hard to believe, but once you ditch the mf it will be crystal-clear that it was the right move.

Just do it. You are not him mom/dad, you are NOT responsible for his sad state of affairs.

Unless he whines/guilts/rationalizes just right, I guess.

Does no-one else think this might be from a guy? Not that it affects the advice but...

And I would warn against thinking you know how someone will be in a relationship with you just by observing how they seem to WANT to be with someone else. No reason not to go for it once he is single, but just proceed with caution.

I don't have anything pertinent to add, but I had some leftover DTMFA's from 2010 that I have to use up before end of fiscal year or I'll lose them.

DTMFA DTMFA DTMFA.

ok, SFR,

I'm not going to go with the knee-jerk reaction prevalent here and tell you to DTMFA. Not exactly, anyway.

And, like the slogger @13, I recognize the possibility of a more nuanced solution/response; unlike that slogger, I'm neither going to give you my knee-jerk condescension while offering no potentially helpful, alternative advice. So here goes:

First off, you have to recognize that the fundamental problem that you are suffering is YOUR OWN confusion, and whatever behaviors you are engaging that are creating/supporting that state in YOURSELF. It is not fundamentally about how flawed your bf may be, or how great the other guy be---or anything that anyone else is doing, or has done, or will maybe do TO you. The crux of your responsibility (and potential maturity, integrity, and happiness) lies in HOW YOU RELATE TO ALL OF IT. So, the way out has to involve a gesture in which you acknowledge, accept, and engage that responsibility. Here is the process that I suggest for doing that (based on the relatively little that any of us actually know about what is going on---including your irrelevant sex/gender).

Your dissatisfaction and misgivings about your bf are only one part of your confusion. Their tandem with your attraction to your buddy is the tension that is confusing for you. You are the one putting yourself into that position by trying to have it both ways, I think---even if just a little.

So, FIRST OF ALL, you have to simply choose whether or not you want to try to work it out with the bf---over potentially a long haul---OR try to explore further what you will do with the friend. (I said "simply", but I know it's not an EASY choice, just should be a straightforward one.) You cannot keep doing both; that is what is confusing you. Your indulging of both possibilities---to whatever degree---is what is creating the double-mind in you, and will continue to if you do not stop. You have to make a commitment, one way or the other---even if only for a limited, trial period, after which you might re-assess---if you are going to get more clarity about EITHER possibility. While you are doing even a little of both, your efforts in either direction will inevitably be half-a$$ed and unfruitful.

Obviously---while I agree with most other sloggers that you may have perfectly good reasons to leave your bf immediately---I also acknowledge that there could be worthy, transcendent reasons to stay (even if the possibility of this seems very slight---to me, included), while also calling you to admit that you are engaging in a bit of emotional infidelity here, yourself (even if only a little). As long as some guy that you have a conscious attraction to (and already think you might like to be with) is the first (and maybe the only) person that you run to (and immediately!) whenever it is difficult with your bf (which means frequently), you are not going to be invested in your present relationship at such depth that it can ever be clear to you (fully, in your own conscience) that your present relationship is truly for the dogs, even if it (very likely) is!

So, do one or the other. But, only for now. And, only with some caveats.

EITHER:

1.) Stay with the boyfriend.

Announce to the bf that you are unhappy with the way things are, and want to begin a 3-month period of testing and re-evaluating your relationship; post notice, and elaborate on the conditions that you will be evaluating.

Require him to get some---ANY---kind of job, immediately; even if it doesn't pay all his bills, it will be better than nothing. But if it does not pay all his bills, he should simultaneously be looking for a better job, continually and actively---to your honest satisfaction. Not cutting it by the end of the 3 months after you've posted such notice?---tell him now that it will end it. No exceptions. You're not satisfied at any point that he's not really trying? That will also end it, on the spot. No exceptions. He will be on the street. Period.

Also: open, honest communication from him, continually---to your honest satisfaction---and zero infidelities. No exceptions. Even one will end it. Immediately. Period. Mean that. Do it. Period.

And finally---IF you go this route of trying to give the bf this last shot---announce your intention that by the end of this trial period you will have completed a consideration together (of whatever length, in however many installments) about your intentions for monogamy, his interests in other men and in cuckolding, and whatever else (yet admitted or not, to yourselves or each other) that could possibly affect any kinds of agreements you could possibly make about the shape your relationship would take (however potentially conventional or un-) after the trial period is over, should all other conditions have been met and you are still wanting to continue. By that time, you should have hammered out what your actual agreements are relative to all of that, for the forseeable future---what you and/or he would be willing to tolerate/accept under whatever conditions, what you and/or he would definitely have to forgo/sacrifice for the sake of the relationship, etc, etc, &c. Have an absolutely clear agreement. Talk as much as you have to to create it. It doesn't have to look right or normal or even fair to anyone else. But it ABSOLUTELY has to FEEL right to BOTH OF YOU. Any violation of the agreement after that time should be understood to immediately end the relationship. Period.

(It would take a lot of maturity to create such an agreement that is mutually satisfying to both partners, with give and take from both, that could stand the test of time and mutual happiness. But there are the rare few who are able, and they are happier than most of their more conventional but more emotionally lazy counterparts most of the time. Those who are able to do it at your age, though, are rarer still. But it is not impossible, and certainly not for love---if it is real. But---btw?---I do not believe that such an agreement could possibly include you sleeping with other men solely or primarily to assuage your bf's guilt over having done the same in the past---or wanting to do the same in the present or future---which is definitely the vibe that I was getting there. So, "word to the wise".)

Not able to come to an agreement during that time (which has already been announced)? DTMFA immediately.

He cheats during this time or you have reason to believe he's not being honest with you? DTMFA immediately.

He does not come up to the bar professionally and financially during this period or seems, at any point, to not be trying? DTMFA immediately.

Not willing to agree to any of these conditions for a 3-month trial period? DTMFA immediately.

But. For your part, you also have to be willing to forgo indulging your developing emotional affair with your buddy. Period. Probably it will take virtually no contact, beyond maybe some normal facebook-friend type stuff. Long phone calls are not even game, let alone getting together one-on-one, whether in public or private. If you see him, it should be in a group of friends. If you talk on the phone, it should be less often than once every two weeks---maybe as little as once a month---and no more than half an hour. And you should definitely never discuss the possibility of being together, during this period. Just stay "caught up" and communicate your platonic care and support for each other.

Or, if you think that would be too difficult---and it may---ask your friend to help you with your process by having no private contact at all, at least during the 3-mo period, after which you can check in, compare notes, and re-negotiate the form of your relationship of the basis of any new information.

If he's really your friend, he will understand and support all of this in favor of your own peace of mind. And, if it is "meant to be", eventually, he will still be there later, and he will immensely enjoy you showing your well-earned gratitude for his forbearance.

All of this will allow you to emotionally invest yourself in your relationship with your boyfriend in a once-and-for-all, sh!t-or-get-off-the-pot showdown, whereby you can be sure beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are willing to consider something with your bf long-term.

But not personally willing to take on all of these conditions, yourself, to give your boyfriend one last shot out of some higher (though slim) possibility of growth/redemption/forgiveness and a high-stakes honest-to-god mature relationship? Then I concur with everybody else in saying: DTMFA immediately.

This first possibility should only be exercised if you honestly believe that you might both love each other enough to reform and/or compromise with each other in the name of some deeper love that you've tasted together---which none of us could possibly know or measure---that could possibly inspire and support the relatively miraculous transformation in both of you that would definitely be necessary for this thing to have even a single shot in hell. Real love is worth sacrificing for---but also worth testing. What I described above are the conditions of a test that such real love could pass in 3 months time, in my opinion. Undergo it at solely your own risk, and only in the name of love---and do not expect any of us to be holding our breaths in the meantime!

OR, alternately:

2.) If you can't bear the thought of suspending what's developing with your friend, this is proof that you should just go ahead and dump the bf immediately, since clearly that relationship has already collapsed too far under its own weight to be worth sacrificing even this one relatively small thing (only a possibility!) for.

I agree that, in this case, you should take a moment to party with your friends---NOT including the buddy/probable new bf!---and regain your individual composure and at least taste your freedom. I do not agree, though, that you have to take a lot of time to be single first and experiment and blahblahblah. But only provided that you BOTH drop the bf absolutely cold turkey AND still take it slow with the new guy!

It's ok for you and the buddy to acknowledge that you're exploring a relationship---and even to tell the old bf that a main reason that you're leaving is that you've met someone else that you're more interested in (which can actually be very simple and honest, if painful, regardless of all the other crapola of additional possible reasons). But transition into something like a courtship where you don't cross all lines right away, and where you have clear agreements about all of that.

You owe it to yourself to prove to you and your friend that you are still such good friends even when you don't have your present bullsh!t relationship to commiserate over, especially if you want to believe that that great friendship is going to be a great basis for a great intimate relationship. Again, the secret is undergoing a reasonable test that will create some peace of mind. Let the friendship stand or fall a bit first on it's own two feet after you're free and clear, before adding more to it, and all the rest will have a much better chance at success. (It might also give a little time for your MF ex to get out of your MF house!)

And definitely, definitely cold turkey on the ex, in this case. He's out of the house as soon as some friends or family could reasonably help him move his sh!t. If you really gotta know he's ok, talk once a month for a half hour to check in, maybe every coupla weeks for the first month---but you gotta gotta gotta move on. If you indulge that connection, you will sabotage any possibility of success with anyone else---especially the current prospect! Not only could you fall too easily into the old, deeply-worn ruts of co-dependency with the ex, you would inevitably fall back into the pattern (or never get out of it!) with the new guy of spending all of your time talking about the old guy! Not the basis for a healthy relationship, new or old. Just MOVE ON. It is not easy, but absolutely necessary. You will be very miserable if you have to find this out the hard way.

If the new guy is worth leaving the old guy for, he's also worth taking it slow.

SO!

To summarize: (LOL)

1.) GIVE THE OLD GUY ONE LAST COLLEGE TRY, 100%, OR

2.) MOVE ON, 100%, AND GIVE THIS NEW GUY (OR SOMEONE ELSE!) A TRY, 100%, OR

3.) 1 AND THEN 2, BUT NOT AT THE SAME TIME.

Otherwise, you're not acting like much of the monogamist that you seem to say that you want to be. (Not a crime---I'm a poster-child for the alternative---but don't be a hypocrite!) You reap what you sow, and you will only feel more and more torn as long as you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to bear the fruit of a happy, essentially monogamous relationship (whatever unusual agreements that may or may not include, with your present bf or anyone else) you are going to have to start acting a little more monogamous yourself.

Getting there is going to be a little painful---one way or another---but that's the cost of correcting course after a bit of erring yourself. It's a small price to pay for your integrity and happiness, and it's the bed you've made in any case. So---one way or the other---you might as well just rip off the band-aid. It will only break your heart to whatever degree that you were already cheating, in said heart! Get it over with, and "get straight".

Only you can know, in your heart of hearts, which of these possibilities (if either!) feels honestly worth it. But I have little hope for your immediate happiness if you cannot commit yourself completely to only one of these two courses (assuming that you are really committed to being a monogamist in both the short and long runs).

Hope this helped you to really consider your options in a manner that is most resonant with your heart's highest aspirations for fulfillment in relationship, and the common human requirement for happy sacrifice, in love, for integrity and well-being.

Best wishes.

Not a response, but I just wanted to say how excited I was last night when I saw the Google Chrome ad featuring the It Gets Better Project over here in Britain. Dan Savage = International Hero! Yay!

Do you ramble to your boyfriend? Does he listen? If so, you might want to stay.

You need a relationship timeout until you can start making better choices. Your to do list:
1) Move current bf out of the house, then...
2) Dump current bf
3) Stop the emotional masterbation with friend, until you...
4) Realize you're not so monogamous in relationships yourself

I don't think your BF is a bad guy. But it doesn't sound like you love him. I think you should dump him, and be caring... give him a little time to find another place, maybe even help him find another place. If he's in that "unemployment funk" it IS hard to get motivated.

You also sound a little immature, and you're not that young. Why on earth is it a bad idea to date friends?

@71 Jesus Christ, get over yourself. She's 23, she doesn't need to waste time with that bullshit, she needs to move on. That's how you grow as a young person. That introspective bullshit and soul searching doesn't get anywhere when you're too young to actually have a place in life so you'll never find it.

That said, you only need to know two things to answer this letter. 1. She's 23. 2. She has an irreconcilable difference with her bf. (such as sexual needs, views on monogamy, life goals, or anything).

That's it, dump him. There are plenty of other opportunities for both of them. Why on earth are so many people resistant to the idea of young immature relationships ending? Why would any outsider ever advise "stick with it" when there really are no negative consequences for dumping someone at that age?

Yes, unemployed guys can be okay.

But a guy who's cheated multiple times, is unemployed and mooching off of you, AND is "unmotivated"? If that means what I think it does-- that he's not even trying to get a job at this point --then yeah, dump him.

That said, "dump him" does not have to mean "kick him out of your apartment this very minute." Break off the relationship, but give him a specific amount of time (like, say, a week) to figure out where he's going to go. It might be an awkward week-- you might even want to spend a night or two with a friend to make things easier on you both --but based on the information given by the LW I think it's what's right for her AND what's right for him in the long run.

@78, I think you mean @72. Jesus Christ. Don't think I've ever seen a comment that better embodied tl;dr. Priceless.

How'd this guy cheat on her with older MEN and she didn't DTMF? If shes lookin for a husband prob best not to go that route....

Time to cut your losses, SFR. You've outgrown your relationship and shouldn't waste any more time on it. Dump him, kick him out of your apartment and be single for a moment of your life before diving into another long-term relationship. Have some fun, learn some lessons, and your next relationship will be better for it. Maybe that next love will be with your friend, or maybe he was just the spark you needed to move on from the mooch.

No job, no plans, no motivation? That's not a boyfriend, that's a 22-year-old dependent child. You're not responsible for him just because you've dated for a bit; you didn't marry him or make any other sort of commitment to support him to that degree. Dump him and go date your friend - someone you're hot for and with whom you get along really well (or not, if you'd rather be single for a bit).

Wow, @72.

Tee effin' ell semicolon dee arr.

Definitely dump the current, you guys are into different things, vastly different things and he is showing he is fine living off of you even though he has what he needs to support himself.
As far as the new guy goes, deal with the current breakup first, see if he leaves his girl, then if you both still want to give it a go, but take it slow at first to make sure these feelings aren't just a reflection of wanting out of a bad situation.

Show the current boyfriend this column and tell him you're the letter writer. He'll find motivation, I promise.

Hi,
I think u should leave you bf... seems like u r staying with him because it is there, and in part out of pitty because of his financial and motivational situation. He is not giving u what u nedd plus u both not share the same expectations for the future. And u should pursue your dreams.
Regarding the friend... if u really feel for him and is not just an escape and someone who is filling th the holes is you current relationship, the give it a try.
XO from Buenos Aires!

Whoops, yeah. Meant @72 back there in comment 78.

He sounds like a terrible boyfriend. DTMFA, then reassess the possibilities with the old friend.

@95 - Hi, SFR! Do you really think you and the current boyfriend have a good foundation for building a life together? You seem to think it's a choice between the two guys, and living alone is not a possibility -- but dating people so they'll help with the rent is not a great idea. Get a roommate, and try being single for a while. Might help you figure out what you're looking for in life & love.

@95 - Dude, I was you once. I didn't leave the boyfriend who didn't believe in marriage, wanted an open relationship, got caught cheating, and I'm still with him, happy most days and with no plans to change the arrangment an additional 9 years later. I, too, wanted the symbolic commitment that marriage represents, wanted monogamy, and I, too, fell in love with other guys. It sounds like this is your first time. So my advice is get used to this.

Also get used to having your ideas about what you want challenged, and I mean by yourself as well as others. In fact, *do* intentionally challenge yourself to examine why you want what you want, what cultural norms what you want come from, and why those norms exist. And figure out if they apply to you because they might not.

But even if you stay with the annoying, slacker, cheating boyfriend you love but who doesn't want you want, you will still fall in love again while you're with him if you're anything like me. And if you leave him, what you'll find is that they're all annoying, slacker cheaters. Or other adjectives that are interchangeable with those. You can trade up - people do. But most trading is lateral. In other words, everybody will bug you eventually and it will be work.

So my best advice for you is finish what you've started. Leave the boyfriend because you don't want to be with him, not because you think this other guy is better. If you don't want to be with him, determine that independently from your desire for others because you will desire others again and again, no matter who you've committed yourself to. The 'friend' is a distraction. A sexy, sympathetic, familiar distraction. But he's not the work you need to do, and the surest sign is that you're thinking of swapping one man for the other. If you were considering adding him to your stable, that would be another story... one your current boyfriend would like, it seems...

Not that I think it changes the advice, but the way it was written, the letter to me sounded like it was coming from a guy?! Does anyone else think so? Can the letter writer confirm or deny? Dan, can you check?

Did this make it through????