That "gentrification" on Capital Hill is working out really well!!

sorry Capitol

so they went into the honey hole (presumably not leaving the restaurant through a secret passage) yet the keystone cops (SPD) couldnt figure out who they were?

there has to be something missing here

Agreed @5, seems like something is missing. Also... R Place isn't even visible from the Honey Hole so how did these people know where they were coming from? I mean, this was a fucked up incident for sure, but with such vague details its hard to really be sure they were attacked because they were gay... We'd have to see the redacted portions of the report to get a more complete picture I suppose.

LOL I mean @3 :)

so the guys leaving the R-place were harassed and they felt emboldened to walk up and challenge the harrassers right?

And the harrassers didn't feel like backing down, shoved the man to the ground, and the guys who originally felt all tough, suddenly realized they were in over their heads and curled up into a fetal position?

Sounds like they weren't too smart to get into a confrontation in the first place....

Or so it seems to me....

hate crime? I don't think so.

A prime example of how well intended legislation gets misused and abused by those needing to cower under its protection when they bit off more than they could chew.

@6: Kill yourself.

Who called the police? Was it the staff of the Honey Hole? I sure hope so.

Issues of hate crime or homosexuality ASIDE...

When a group of assholes are picking for a fight outside a bar, late at night... DON'T oblige them.

How many people avoided the same fate that night by just walking by or limiting their retort to a vulgar gesture?

Old news: http://www.seattlepostglobe.org/2009/07/…

@8 - my thoughts exactly. Gay men shouldn't have to take verbal abuse, and it sucks to just take it, but that's not unique to gay men. It is almost always the better course to ignore such bullshit. If I walked by a bunch of guys who were giving me some kind of "hey-hey-mama" business, I wouldn't march over and lecture them about it - that's just asking for trouble. Ignore idiots, lest they also be dangerous.

@11: It was a friend Robert Harkins, former organizer of Hands Off Washington and current Deputy Superintendent of Public Instruction. They asked the guy if Harkins was his "daddy" or something and the kid got annoyed since it was the anniversary of the death of Harkins' fiance and he was suitably upset that someone would make a joke at Harkins' expense.

I do wish people would drop the mythology that before "gentrification" Capitol Hill was some sort of gay mecca where attacks never happened.

Back in the late 80's, when a very young Catalina moved to what would eventually become the "Pike/Pine neighborhood", it was rough: Hookers, Johns, Junkies, Thugs, and us homos - and some of us were some of them ;-). There were very little people on the street at night, and many of them were up to no good.

In those days, there weren't gay bashings: There were just muggings and beating where they called you a faggot.

I mean, I hate to sound like Old Grandad here, but the idea that this stuff never happened in the "good old days" simply isn't true.

Oops, that should be "there were very FEW people on the streets at night". Don't want to cast aspersions on little people.

Capitol Hill is supposed to be the only queer safe space in all of Seattle. If you can't keep your stupid, backward, homophobic mouth shut and dig it while you're there, then keep your fag-hating, gay-bashing ass in your own boring, mediocre neighborhood.

Time to start carrying pepper spray again, brothers and sisters. Damn.

I never talk back to mean buttholes unless I know my ass is covered or I've been drinking and want to play with my knife.

@23 Meow meow indeed!

If in fact someone said a gay slur, hats off to these guys for having the balls to call them on it, and I'm happy neither of them was more seriously injured.

Maybe some of us, straight or gay, need to just hang outside of any bar available to 'check up on' the relationships between random bar trash and the passers-by.

All of the accounts I've read make it sound like 1) the assailants were stoopid douche drunk assholes, and 2) no party here tried to avoid confrontation. That makes me believe that this could have all been avoided. Yeah, it could have first been avoided by the stoopid douche drunk assholes not being stoopid, douche-y, drunk, or assholes. But equally true - it could have been avoided by the other party recognizing that these stoopid douches are just drunk assholes. What were any of them trying to prove? "We're better than you are in a drunken rumble that would never happen if we were all sober"? "We're so ashamed at how lame our jokes/heckles are that we have to kick the shit out of people who call us on it"? Either way, you're all deserving of a night in jail to figure out how idiotic you are.

@ 27
Good point. Another question I have is this, Can a gay man be arrested for a hate crime for calling a straight person "fag or queer" during an assault?

I have a flamboyantly flaming best friend. Once, when we were in our early 20's, he got in a fight with a Westlake "gangsta", some 20 something black guy crack dealer, a wanna be thug.
My friend "Mike" is also black and looks sort of hip hop w/ the baggy pants and ball cap. Not to mention he is a brown belt in tai kwon do. "Mike" was kicked by this thug as we walked past the phone booths that used to be outside of Starbucks (back then it was SBC).
The thug called my buddy a bitch, as apparently he didn't like the fetishistic mannerisms my friend used as he talked. So my friend "Mike" (mind you, we were on our way back from the old Art Bar and pretty drunk) fucking goes crazy and knocks the gangster to the ground. He starts screaming at the gangster "FUCK YOU YOU FAGGOT ASS BITCH!" and beating his ass. Cops came. They let my friend go and they arrested the gangster. Uninvolved witnesses were saying that the thug was calling my friend a "faggot bitch" throughout the attack, when really it was the other way around. The cop told Mike that the thug was likely going to be charged with a hate crime and took a statement from him before they let us go on our way. So, why did that happen? Should Mike been arrested for assault? Probably, IMO, he was drunk and reacted foolishly. Should Mike been charged with a hate crime when, despite his yelling "faggot", he was the one who is gay? I don't know.

Heterosexuals are the most vile disgusting group of people on this planet.

Post #30 proves that point.

serious case of the assholes on this thread...

and, WTF Honeyhole? Why didn't the staff do something about this, like break it up, call the cops, SOMETHING!

Fuck the bigots and Fuck the Honeyhole and their mediocre overpriced sandwiches and douchebag hipster clientale.

So wait, the Honeyhole is not a lesbian bar?

I totally agree with you #16. There are moments when I wish that straight people were as a afraid to fuck with gay people as white people are afraid of black people. Where is the gay rage?

Maybe some breeder boy tough guys should be a bit more careful who they pick on. They never know which of us pansy ass faggots are actually carrying weapons. Make their straight asses cry for momma.

Maybe breeder boy "tough guys" should be a little more careful who they pick on. You never know which of us pansy ass faggots are licensed for carrying weapons. Make your straight ass cry home to momma.

So... what you're saying is that it's not a hate crime because the "fag" and his buddy should have known their place and just kept their mouths shut?
Fuck that. I'm with Greg @ 7. Also, I can't help thinking of a Malcolm X quote: "Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery." (Bit harsh, maybe?)

By the legal definition, this is closer to a hate crime than the South Park stabbings were, as details do more to indicate the men were targeted due to their orientation.

That said, yeah, it's never smart to pick a fight with a group of drunk guys outside a bar looking to talk shit and pick a fight. Throwing it back at them tends not to end well no matter who you are.

I don't see this as a hate crime. It sounds like the "victim" wasn't beaten up because he was gay, rather he was beaten up because he became confrontational. I'm not exactly sure what he expected to happen. A group of drunk asshole bullies say something derogatory, whether it be gay-related or not, he goes up in their face and demands an apology, does he actually expect they will react with, "you know, you're right, we're sorry, we take it back"...?? I think calling this a gay bashing is disrespectful to true gay bashings where innocent and unsuspecting gay people are attacked not because they picked a fight, but because they are gay. And where is the other side of this story? I want to hear both sides.

I think if we take that sort of crap in our homes we are not better than the people who do go around using violence...we have a voice as a gay community...Why is everyone else afraid to use it?

Hey, dalvarez, so you think every victim of hate speech should just ignore it and turn and run. Yeah, that'll change the world, huh? I assume from your tag that you are latino. So, if someone calls you a derogatory term for a latino, you just roll over and blame and loathe yourself for being one? YOU are the true VICTIM then. Get a backbone or hate will always prevail. What the police report doesn't reveal is that the victim here is 6'3" and normally would be more than able to defend himself and his honor. He did not get violent or pick a fight. He simply stood up to hate, was shoved, lost his balance and three guys who he did not even confront started kicking him and screaming racial (he's latino BTW) and homophobic slurs. I know because I'm the guy with the "deep contusion" to his chest. And you know what? I didn't do anything other than try to drag my friend away and then tried to save him from even worse injuries. Was I "asking for it," too, or should I have let my beloved friend maybe get killed in front of me because that's what I thought was happening? You and the other bigoted and/or wimpy people who posted "blame the victim" crap in this string make me sick.

From other reports I have read, the alleged perpetrators said something about a "pretty boy and his daddy". I really don't find that has anything to do with hating gay people. Skyway, you need to get a spine and stop blaming all the problems in your life on being gay. People get in fights. You happen to be gay. So that automatically makes this a hate crime? Correlation does not equal causation.