Blogs Dec 23, 2008 at 12:08 pm

Comments

1
What's the point? Uhhhh, how about VISIBILITY, Dan.

That's about 10million times as poignant as your "bitching pulpit" to the choir.

What have you done for us, Dan? Answer that. What have you done.
2
(besides getting rich off of a highly targetable market of gays who the advertisers in your rag are ready and willing to pay you to target)
3
The website is not all that great. I tried to sign up for the vigil thing this past weekend but had no clue where we were to meet at or anything else.

And the Day without a Gay I heard about the day after it happened.

4
Here's an achievable, short-term goal (relatively short term, that is): Get DOMA repealed. Campaign on that. Protest that. That's do-able. Gay marriage isn't do-able yet, but to hell with marriage, go for civil unions that are 100% equal with marriage. That's a hell of an easier sell than marriage. Besides, I would guess there are plenty of heteros who would reject marriage in favor of civil unions... I would much rather tell people "No, I'm not married, I have a civil union, marriage is for religious people."
5
Unfortunately too many public protests (on all issues) these days lack a strategic goal. Coming from the Nuclear Disarmament actions and Gay Rights and AIDS actions from the '80's, many protests today seem to have no particular goal other than to get a large number of people to come together in big group and yell or make speeches through megaphones.

I don't want to be discouraging and I appreciate the efforts of everyone who has planned or participated in these actions, but these events have to be something more than a glorified "flashmob" to get me interested.

It used to be that political protests had a more or less rational strategy that was coherently implemented which you could clearly see how, if successful, it would contribute to bringing about a desired political change at some level of government or some change of personal attitudes in the population. And the use of large public protests was a somewhat carefully chosen and carefully planned means to an end.

These days (in the past 10 years or so) it seems that having a large public protest has become an end unto itself - with no particular connection as to how that protest event is actually going to change anything. It's like people are using the form of public protest without understanding the inner workings of what made the really effective protests in the past as effective as they were.

Yes, large public protests can and do change the people who participate in them - this was exactly the desired strategic goal of the 1987 and 1993 GLBT Marches on Washington. Yes, there would be some secondary effects from gatherings that large (of course the DC police and all news agencies under-reported the attendance like 90%). But the stated goal was to energize the people who attended so they could go back to their home states and work for change there - and it worked.

In the immediate wake of Prop 8's passing, the instinctive reaction of a community that has just been attacked is to huddle up and vent their woundedness - this is healthy and productive because it allows the individual to see that there are a lot of other people who are experiencing the same feelings that come in the aftermath of an attack (the individual gets validation of their experience), and it strengthens their belief in being able to change the wrong because they can see how many people are going to be working together to change it.

But after the immediate shock has worn off a bit the holding of large public protests for their own sake loses potency, and a politically strategic rationale needs to be developed to address the wrong - which may or may not include large public protests, depending on what the strategy turns out to be and what methods have the best chance of achieving the goals.

I'd be glad to participate in strategy sessions if anyone is up for that.
6
Why can't the goal, at least here in Washington, be to get full legalized SSM? It's right after an election, we have a super dem majority, and a dem govenor. We have a shitty supreme court, but we are in-between elections. This is the BEST time just get it passed in the congress. I mean, wtf? Why take baby steps when we can take huge leaps while the voters are all burned out of caring about politics and the next election is 2 years away?

Let's do this.
7
Just to add, protesting at the state capitol in WA on Jan. 10 is beyond pointless. They're not in session, and it's a Saturday. The place will be empty. The visibility they might get will be totally lost on returning/new legislators that come in a few days later.
8
and what happened in the hometown of join the impact's founder? the answer comes from Pam's House Blend:

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.…

University Village, Seattle (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for posting, Fritz! I was hoping someone would get some pictures or videos up.
My partner and I participated in the UVillage event in Seattle. UVillage is one of those outdoor shopping malls. The idea was for small groups of people to wander it's many paths and hand out fliers when people asked what we were doing.
But weather changed our plans. You see, the weather service had told everyone to stay home. So even thought this was the last saturday before christmas, there were few shoppers. The snow was beautiful but really coming down, and the wind kept blowing out our candles!
We finally figured out that if we stood still, the candles would stay lit, so we stationed ourselves at the busiest corner (Starbucks of course!) and actively handed out our fliers until they were gone. People were very cold and whizzing by - not a night to engage anyone in conversation. But we were happy that we at least got out there and tried to make a dent in our little unseasonably cold corner of the world.

R.I.P. Liberty?
by: Lurleen @ Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 23:40:48 PM CST
9
I have never understood why we started with gays in the military and moved on to marriage... I mean seriously, what is wrong with coming together on adding sexual orientation to the non-discrimination policy? hard to argue that a person cant be protected from being fired because they are gay. but go after the most hide-bound institutions? especially ones not everyone can agree on?
10
Wait, I just realized why I though the day without a gay and the silent candlelight thing were busts and the national day of protest was successful.

Gays are pissed off, angry and not willing to express that in any other way than together, loudly and with yelling and signs... not going to work is an indivudual act, and one that people might not be willing to expose their finances to.
and I am sorry, the marching with candles and silence thing is NOT going to do shit. Its no more Mrs Nice Gay and fuck off homophobes now... having the whitelighter fear of a gay planet side of our community running things is the problem..
We dont want to be Holly Near's "gentle angry people, singing, singing for our liiiives" now, we are "angry pissed off people and we are blowing, blowing up your caaaar."

*** Note to the kids and the fags: google Holly Near if you need to... it might be either to old or too lesbian for you.
11
After Prop 8, I can't imagine why anyone would be surprised to find out about a total lack of unity on gay rights issues. The response has also been characteristically disjointed.

I think the wheels that turn should move us toward fighting for full-bore Civil Unions and a repeal of DOMA. As integration continues in terms of the sheer number of CUs, it would become increasingly prudent to combine the terms, perhaps in a way that is amenable to both parties (equality vs. judeo-christian tradition) and one that totally disregards the views of those who can't accept equality under any standard.

Regardless of what the mouthpieces and pundits are saying, we aren't fighting for marriage equality, we're simply bitching about not having it. If we pull a play where we circumvent the argument, we can at least ensure our families will enjoy the same rights as straight married couples until we can reclaim or reconcile the separate term.

In fact, make Civil Unions available to straight couples as well-- if they have the option, then marriage in a non-traditional sense would finally have the recognition it deserves. At this point, we have atheists, agnostics and non christians being told that their marriage is "traditional" and therefore party to the same standards and beliefs they've eschewed already.
12
Dan,

Look how confused your readership is on this issue! It's funny.

But Gay marriage is NEVER going to happen in America. Obama cleary stated he opposes gay marriage because of his Christian beliefs. Rick Warren is an excellent choice to get this point across to gay America.

Stop fighting a battle you will never wim. Separate but equal marriage is all Gay men in America will ever get. GET OVER IT!

We've got to back Obama in the new wars he is planning in the spring. America and Israel will attack Iran and Afganistan. Obama will need all of us, especially the left to support this war just like The Stranger supported the Iraq war.

Instead of whining about gay marriage, how about some articles about gay oppression in Iran. It will make it easier to bomb Iran if American gays think we are doing it for 'gay rights'.

Please study Orthodox Judaism's postion on gay marriage. The only real marriage is between a man and woman. Everyone else, even straight roomates deserve domsetic partnerships. Being gay is a choice. It's not real oppression like being black or Jewish.
13
OK, so I can't be the only one who thinks that issur is insane. Right?

11. In fact, make Civil Unions available to straight couples as well-- if they have the option, then marriage in a non-traditional sense would finally have the recognition it deserves.

I am in completely agreement here. I know many straight couples who have had courthouse ceremonies simply because a church wedding isn't something they want, whether it's because they aren't believers or they've decided they won't "get married" until everyone can. And courthouse/civil ceremonies are as close as they can come to some kind of solidarity with the gay community.

If more straights would do this, and we could get civil unions in more states, with legislation that makes them indistinguishable from marriages, I think eventually marriage would become just a religious ritual, meaningful only to believers. And there are less and less believers each decade.

Of course, marriage is cool too, and I'll keep fighting for that as long as our dysfunctional gay "community" wants to.
14
I think it needs to be pointed out that "Day Without A Gay" was NOT a Join The Impact event. JTI simply helped promote it, as did a lot of other groups, columnists and bloggers.

So, that leaves us with the extremely successful November 15th NATIONAL rallies that were put together in 5 days, and attended by tens of thousands of people, the postcard campaign and the Light Up the Night event.

Regarding November 15th, you can take the credit away from all of the "Facebook activists" if you feel so inclined, but those rallies would not have happened without them - community anger or no community anger. If bringing tens of thousands of people together to protest unfair laws isn't activism, PLEASE provide me with a new definition.

As for the postcard campaign, I don't see how that's any worse, or any less successful than any other "write your leaders" campaign. It's certainly better than online petitions that don't mean shit. And, it certainly can't be deemed a failure since it's still ongoing.

And the Light Up The Night events were very successful in lots of places. Here in Miami, we had an extraordinary event. It was inspiring, it brought a lot of new activists into the fold, and it did a lot to keep the conversation going in our community.

And, I think that the January 10th DOMA protest has the potential to be the one that makes history - but I also think that the potential likely won't be realized, because of the constant, constant criticism.

I just cannot understand why, instead of attending these events, and being a part of keeping the momentum going, so many of us are taking the time to deflate the excitement of a whole generation of young activists.

I can tell you that I, for one, am feeling overwhelmingly discouraged and disheartened those who think that it's better to stay indoors, write checks to big corporate "GLBTQ" organizations, and post blogs about how these young activists are wasting their time on bad ideas.

Of course, eveyone has a right to their opinion. And, everyone has a right to think that the people who have put their hearts and souls into designing, promoting and executing these JTI ideas, are dumb or naive.

It really feels like a lot of "us" are determined to kill the movement before it gets started, in favor of holding on to a security blanket of cynicism and negativity.

Keep telling us that it's all a waste of time, and we'll believe it.

But we will NOT keep writing checks to support the fancy cocktail parties that we'd never be invited to anyway.
15
I keep hearing this statement that JTI is "patting themselves on the back" and not writing honest postmortems. To begin with, JTI has very often patted its volunteers on the back, not itself. Second, JTI only wrote a postmortem on Light Up the Night and on the November 15th rally only. As mentioned above, Day Without a Gay was something that JTI helped with, but it was not ours. Hence, no postmortem. Light Up the Night had a very clear goal that JTI accomplished: Reach 1 Million People With the Message of Equality. With over 1 million "5 rights fliers" handed out, a spike in membership over the next few days, and a great deal of coverage across the country - I'd say that goal was met.

While everyone continues to debate this, we keep losing sight of the big picture:

Those who oppose same-sex marriage are unified under faith. Even if they are independent thinkers in many respects, they let their faith guide them for issues like civil marriage - this means that they will always be a unified movement. On the flip side of the coin, we are all out and proud because we are independent thinkers in all respects. The problem with this is that many of our leaders spend more time questioning one another rather than working together for the greater good. If we don't unite, then we will not win any of the many basic human rights that we deserve. We instead run the risk of dividing our community from the inside out while our opponents divide us from the outside in.

November 15th was about uniting and becoming visible.
December 20th was about outreach and education.
January 10th DOMA protest (This is at the city and not the state capitol level) - Has a clear goal: 1 Million Plus Signatures on the Open Letter to Barack Obama (written in response to his Open Letter to the Gay Community). This letter will be in his hand on day one, showing him that we expect him to stick to his promises.

Each event is one step in the movement, not a solve all. When it comes down to it, if we allow our visibility to deter, then we become a community easily ignored. Dan, you are an outspoken gay man who I have always loved to listen to and read. JTI does not have to be the only organization calling for visibility (and it is not). We are teaming up with MEUSA on various events, for instance. The Courage Campaign has done a great deal as well. What JTI does provide is the platform for ideas. This gives everyone in this movement the opportunity to have a loud voice. Why don't you put out an idea for visibility, outreach, etc?

Oh and in response to getting all of us in a room together, if someone wants to donate about $10K to the cause, then we'll have a means to do this. Until then, JTI is comprised of an all volunteer group of young activists who are working some long hours and span across the country.
16
@8, there was a much larger gathering at Pike Place. What happened at U-Village shouldn't be seen as "the" Seattle event. And, no one can control the weather.
17
Dan,
are you looking for leadership, than be the change you want to see in the world and now we might have the ability to make an impact to the change we have helped elct.
I am not talking only in regards to BHO(Barak Hussein Obama), but every other single pro LGBT elected official across the country. Politics, as we are trying to change policies and laws, are a local matter.
Now more than ever we should probably strengthen the ties with allies as the events that have been carried out, or supported by Join Th Impact, have helped us broaden. Look at how many more people voted no on 8 than on 22.
With ears better receiving to our united cry for civic equality of our dignity as human being and as families, changing the public opinion in our communities will make spreading the message across the country as easy as connecting very close dots for far more electing crowds than the ones we have seen at this past general elections.
Prop 8 showed many points in which we have failed but, not to pat anybody on the back, until it really gets either struck down, or just outright overturned, it also showed our renewed ability to engage, most often than not in constructive conversation that will eventually change the mind of every american, even if one at the time.
And keeping the conversation going will not only require the ability to hear what is in front and against us, but also to letting other people speak so that we can bring them close them enough to our terms.
Gay people help elect BHO, but it will not with demanding that we wil get all that we deserve. It will be with the same dedication and commitment to the feasable goals of our cause that we will be heard.
I say that without engaging in the same protests that share the same problems that we do we will only be the three snowed out kids in chattanuga tenesse fading in the dark .
If Immigrantsa are rallying, than we rally with them in our contingent and contribution.. aren't there any immigrant LGBT who is suffering what they are suffering?
Car dealers rally, we do, as aren't there any LGBT who will struggle to keep his job in those same factories that are shut down?
and so on and on, trust me I have got a list.
Join the impact and make your noise, simply come out, but keep the conversation going, with friends, and family with those who don't understand us, and therefore h8te us, keep it going. We are the only one who can make this movement fade.
And to some ACT UP church silent protest suggestion, how pissed would you be if 1500 evangelical would enter a club at night and stage a praying sit in on your dance floor... be realistic.
Best
18
I think we need an ad campaign to start equating the religious nuts to nazis and white supremists so that their followers will start to understand that 'they' talk just like 'evil' leaders from the past. I would suggest that the beauty of freedom of speech is that if you give 'them' the microphone and a lot of time that they will get on a roll and give 'us' all we need to make the arguement. Take one of their quotes and compare it to something Hitler or some other charismatic evil leader said to incite their followers. Put these ads on tv on MSNBC, CNN, and during other morning and evening news shows..and during highly rated evening shows like CSI. The other approach I would suggest is to try and make all legal unions be called civil unions and to take the word marriage out of all legal documents so that it becomes only a religious term, not a legal one. Lets take them at their word and let god do marriage and the state do civil unions. They can have their word and we can have our rights. Oh, and how mad will they be that only civil unions are recognized by the law and not marriage? Now, they can have their word and it won't be recognized by the law. All current marriages can be 'grandfathered' in and converted to civil unions. No one gets a 'legal' marriage. They want marriage all to themselves? Let 'em have it.
19
Could I suggest that you put forth in-person meetings? Yes, utilizing the best 2.0 or 3.0 technology, virtual whatever is obviously both necessary and a fundamental element to any vital strategy in 2008/9 -- But one of the main drawbacks of e-tech meets modern identity politik, is that, in keeping with identity politik of the last 20 yrs - people generally do just enough to not feel bad about themselves. It's sortof basic rhetorical theory (see K. Burke, etc.) - people see the flaw in society, and have to have an enemy/sacrificial lamb, or do something to render themself from their place in the social hierarchy - Therefore, they act to relieve their sense of guilt for sustaining the inequality, or to make sure that the enemy is clearly defined, and not thyself.
That works in the wake of Prop 8 (particularly for people like New Yorkers, who have paid little to no attention to judicial decisions or legislation here over the last 8 yrs - but could get all up in arms about Calif and Mormons, reminiscent of the NY-Boycott-Colorado movement of '93) - but has its share of problems. Not the least of which is that it allows us to click somewhere, join a facebook group, and feel better about ourselves. The place where the fundies and various other right-wing evangelistas have the advantage is the weekly in purpose pep rally. Kind of like demonstrations: they're great for rallying your side. Not nec that impactful in the long-term. But a weekly human interface? Particularly the kind where people get together from different age and tax brackets and faith-secular and multicultural perspectives? The kind that encourage work on all kinds of levels on the state and federal and city levels? They're really, really needed. It's hard. It's not pretty. But someone in the near-unique position of a Dan Savage could do a whole lot of communities a whole lot of good by pushing us to do it. To find brick and mortar spaces where we can get together, and bring our laptops, and write our letters, and just talk -- and support each other in a a whole mess of actions.

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