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Tuesday, November 11, 2008

The Jews!

posted by on November 11 at 8:31 AM

They don’t control the world (else Prop 8 would never have passed), but, at least in Los Angeles, they know a threat to equal rights when they see one:

Los Angeles Jews voted overwhelmingly against a California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages, according to an exit poll.

On Proposition 8, Jewish Angelinos voted 78 percent against the ban while only 8 percent supported the ban, according to the survey of 1,200 voters in 50 precincts. The remainder declined to respond. The Jews’ vote against the ban was the highest proportion of any ethnic or religious group.

RSS icon Comments

1
Posted by Dave | November 11, 2008 8:36 AM
2

Jews voted against Prop 8 in a higher percentage than gays voted for Obama.

Posted by DOUG. | November 11, 2008 8:43 AM
3

The godless were against it 9-1.

Posted by chicagogaydude | November 11, 2008 8:47 AM
4

You know, the Jewish elitism that I grew up under sometimes...just sometimes...is totally warranted.
Oh that sounded snobbish. Felt good tho.

Posted by onion | November 11, 2008 8:47 AM
5

Hello!
good site!
good luck!

Posted by zeroman77 | November 11, 2008 8:49 AM
6

Let the process of "the fragmentation of society starts to devour itself alive" begin!

Posted by Non | November 11, 2008 8:50 AM
7

I care that the Mormons made this happen and that the LGBT leadership let them, but, past that, I don't care who did what other than that (barely) not enough people voted "no" and we have to reduce that number.

Posted by whatevernevermind | November 11, 2008 9:00 AM
8

This is funny because Mormons see themselves as regathered Isrealites and call Jews who are not Mormons "Gentiles". No joke.

Posted by wl | November 11, 2008 9:08 AM
9

Secretly, Yellow Stars have been supporting Pink Triangles since WW2. You know, the shared trauma and all...

Posted by Not so lucky charms | November 11, 2008 9:10 AM
10


SLOG has become disgusting.

The "Jews"...the "blacks".

People are all individuals who vote individually.

Your segregationist demographic fascism is horrific and very 20th century.

Posted by John Bailo | November 11, 2008 9:10 AM
11

You know, I think that coursework in statistics should be mandatory for anyone who writes about any poll.

The survey was of 1200 LA voters. The Jewish population of LA is about 600,000 people - 6% of the 10,000,000 people who live there. In other words, the poll's sample of Jewish voters was likely somewhere around 65-80 people. That's a margin of error 'roundabouts 12%-13%, which is garbage.

Posted by trstr | November 11, 2008 9:14 AM
12

Oh, the Stranger is so divisive and racist, I love it.

Posted by Archie Bunker | November 11, 2008 9:26 AM
13

@10: Would it be better if they said "the cohort of Jewish individuals tended to vote in favor of..." -- Political strategists can and do talk about demographics and use them as tools for winning races and passing propositions.

While I think this debate has gotten heated and extreme, there is value in figuring out which communities need more education/outreach/campaigning in the future.

Posted by Dawgson | November 11, 2008 9:33 AM
14

@11

78 percent minus the margin of error of 13% still leaves 65%--probably still the highest percentage (I would venture) by which any group voted no (except gays duh).

So um, before you tell others to learn statistics why dont' you go learn subtraction.

And Bailo. You're against gay marriage equality, right?

So stop attacking those who are working for it, you bigoted scumbag.

How dare you call the left fascists. You're the side that promoted discrimination since the 1950s and harbored unAmerican traitors like STrom Thurmond in your party -- and Ronal Reagan speaking in Phila. MS where civil rights workers got killed. Your party today is leading the charge to keep gays unequal. You're a lousy chicken shit hiding behind "equality" and hurling out terms like fascist.

You tell us right now that you're for equality on marriage issues and you've marched in the pride parade and you've given money to human rights campaign..... Otherwise own up to your own view that you think gays should have unequal and fewer rights and then explain to everyone here
why your antigay rights stance doesn't make you the fascist pig.

Go ahead. Tell us. Are you for equality or not?

All I hear is you going "oink, oink, oink."

Posted by PC | November 11, 2008 9:44 AM
15

I'm gonna say 100% of people with an IQ over 130 voted no on prop 8.

Posted by Original Monique | November 11, 2008 9:45 AM
16

Interesting article on ccn dot com today:
Holocaust survivors to Mormons: Stop baptisms of dead Jews

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/11/baptizing.dead.jews.ap/index.html

Perhaps we should get a list of dead mormons and out them... I dont necessarily care if they are gay nor not; does it matter? I mean, if you can change a dead jew into a dead mormon by just saying so, cant we make them gay by just saying so?

Posted by Womyn2me | November 11, 2008 9:52 AM
17

Okay, I'm sick of commenting about why exit polls are worthless, but one reason that this poll is especially worthless is that this was a survey of Los Angeles, and about 5% of Los Angeles county is Jewish. That means a total of about 60 Jews (non-random, self-selected) were surveyed for this exit poll.

What's more important is if you look at the rest of the data for this exit poll. First, only 47% of the LA blacks polled voted for Prop 8. Second, 75% of LA whites in general polled voted against Prop 8, compared to 78% of Jews. There's nothing special about that Jewish figure; you might as well make the same post about white Christians in Los Angeles.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20081105/pl_usnw/the_leavey_center_for_the_study_of_los_angeles_reports_initial_results_from_its2008_presidential_election_exit_poll/print


Posted by jrrrl | November 11, 2008 10:02 AM
18

I wish I was Jewish. But you have to believe in God, right?

Posted by Big Sven | November 11, 2008 10:13 AM
19

@10:

Hell yea.

Religiosity (ie how many times you go to services and how strictly you follow your religion) has way more to do with who voted for or against prop 8 for what then someone's ancestry. This ethnic and race stuff is just such bullshit for this reason. A secular Mormon will vote against it and a conservative Jew will vote for it, the only difference is that there are a lot more secular Jews. Black folk who are descended from slaves imported the strict evangelical religious traditions from the South. Black churches are actually less conservative than white churches from the same tradition.

But this boils down to:
"Them Jews sure know a threat to equal rights when they see one, not like them negroes!!!! What a bunch of gay bashers!!!! yuk yuk yuk"

Welcome to America, can't see past race to save it's own life.

Posted by EmmiG | November 11, 2008 10:19 AM
20

@10

See, here's the thing. If religious/ethnic affiliation wasn't related to voting behavior, than the statistics would be the same across religions/ethnicities and WE WOULDN'T FUCKING CARE.

But the stats AREN'T the same, people ARE affected by their religious/ethnic culture, and if we want to change minds, we need to know whose minds we're out to change. Targeting efforts based on statistical differences between demographics is totally fucking legitimate and not even remotely racist, if you have ANYthing beyond a 5th-grade, hyper-politically-correct, "colorblind" understanding of what racism is.

Posted by violet_dagrinder | November 11, 2008 10:22 AM
21

I think this difference in point of view is really interesting because of the inherent religious differences between Jews and Mormons.

As I understand it, Jewishness is matrilineal. To be born a Jew you must have a Jewish mother. Jews have never been very interested in converting non-Jews so gay marriage does not really have a negative effect on Jewish culture as a whole. They don't imagine they will see a lot of non-Jew married men seeking conversion. A Jewish woman, straight or gay, who has a baby, has a Jewish baby, so the net result of same-sex marriage on Jewish population is negligible.

On the other hand, Mormons are highly evangelistic. Conversion is necessary to keep their ranks growing and with their tithing system, continued growth in revenue as well. They also believe that the family is the primary unit of church hierarchy. The father is priest to his wife and children and is in turn subject to church elders and bishops. Because of this hierarchy, same-sex marriage is anathema because it endangers the power structure of the church itself. They cannot allow a family to have two priests or allow women to be priests. This sort of thing might engender independent thought and endanger their carefully constructed Ponzi scheme of tithing.

Posted by inkweary | November 11, 2008 10:30 AM
22

There's something you need to understand about The Jews.

*We love shopping.
*We love Broadway.
*We love Barbra Streisand.
*We're loud, argumentative and emotional.
*We have complicated relationships with our mothers.

There's a lot of gay in The Jews.

Posted by The Artist Formerly Known As Sigourney Beaver | November 11, 2008 10:31 AM
23

It seems to me that Jewish and Black rights groups have shown more concern for all civil rights than gay rights groups have shown.

Would it be possible that a wider ranging effort that would allow any and all to have the same rights as a married couple would be more effective?
Why should single people, gay or strait, not get the same tax rates or be able to have visitors in a hospital or pass on some of their estate in same manner as those curently married?

Why can't we just establish boilerplate "civil unions" or "civil arrangements" that give everyone the same rights under the law and let them call it what they want to call it. If the word marriage is key then use it, even go to a church and get married.

Imagine including all the single people in the movement for eqaulity, would that add to the base?

Posted by McG | November 11, 2008 10:34 AM
24
Targeting efforts based on statistical differences between demographics is totally fucking legitimate and not even remotely racist

Except when you pick and choose crappy data to make your points.

Blacks:
* The one poll everyone is citing about blacks and Prop 8 shows 70% or whatever of blacks voted for Prop 8, based on the worst polling data out there.
* Eli's poll shows 47% of LA blacks voted for Prop 8, it was not cited.
* Other reliable polls (like this one show whites (47%) were for Prop 8 more than blacks (45%) were. These were not cited.

Only the one poll that says blacks are essentially worse people than whites was cited. It also happens to be the worst, most unscientific poll out there. Why?

Jews:
* 60 Jews were polled.
* It was a poll of LA only.
* Jewish and White voting rates in this poll were statistically the same for Prop 8.

Why pull out the Jewish number only? The only reason to pull out these numbers only is if Eli/Dan (or people in the news outlets or blogs that are being cited) are trying to make an incorrect point about race and religion.

Posted by jrrrl | November 11, 2008 10:50 AM
25

@22: And for the bear-set, so many jewish guys are as hairy as all get-out.

Posted by AJ | November 11, 2008 11:17 AM
26

Okay, hopefully my last exit poll bashing comment.

There's more proof that exit polls are completely worthless if you compare the exit poll results for LA with the actual county results.

Exit Poll:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20081105/pl_usnw/the_leavey_center_for_the_study_of_los_angeles_reports_initial_results_from_its2008_presidential_election_exit_poll/print
McCain 23%/Obama 73%
Prop 4 (abortion) 30% yes/54% no
Prop 8 (gay marriage ban) 30% yes/57% no

Actual Results for LA County:
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/19.htm
McCain 29%/Obama 69%
Prop 4 (abortion) 46% yes/54% no
Prop 8 (gay marriage ban) 50% yes/50% no

The exit poll was city-wide only and the election results were county-wide, but LA makes up about 50% of the population of its county. Unless you believe that cities like Long Beach and Pasadena went 70% for the ban (which would be more extreme than most of rural California), the exit poll clearly does not reflect actual voting.

Posted by jrrrl | November 11, 2008 11:25 AM
27

@23
It seems to me that Jewish and Black rights groups have shown more concern for all civil rights than gay rights groups have shown.

Really? It seems to me that Jewish and gay rights groups have shown more concern for all civil rights at times, while black rights groups won't do jack-shit for anyone and will even work against civil rights if the person who benefits is black.

ps- My comment is no more racist than yours is homophobic so please, hold the race card

Posted by sam | November 11, 2008 11:59 AM
28

My post was homophobic - okay. jawohl!

"black rights groups won't do jack-shit for anyone and will even work against civil rights if the person who benefits is black."

sorry I don't follow - and just because you disagree about black groups doesn't make you a racist but calling me homophobic makes you an idiot.


Posted by McG | November 11, 2008 1:28 PM
29

@24:

I'm fine with looking harder at the numbers and coming to different conclusions. That's cool.

But I think it's pretty insane that people (Dan being a recent example) can't ask questions about racial or religious motivations without being called bigots. Or, in the case of @10, "fascists". Giant eye roll to that one. . .

Posted by violet_dagrinder | November 11, 2008 1:36 PM
30

@29, that's because there is no "racial" motivation. Not one black person voted against prop 8 because they were a different color than you. Shit, if you hold religion steady, black people are far less homophobic than whites, probably because they're also tend to be more liberal.

The problem is people like you assume that correlation = causation and think that black folk have some sort of deeper "racial motivations". Do white people have "racial motivations"? If you honestly are even considering "racial motivations" for an issue that effects everyone regardless of race, then you are racist and stupid. Sorry. I won't say fascist, but I will say "ignorant twunt". Congratulations I guess.

Posted by EmmiG | November 11, 2008 2:24 PM

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