2008 Savage Love Letter of the Day
posted by on November 5 at 11:01 AM
Despite the enormous victory for President-Elect Obama (and out country), I am writing you today regarding Prop 8 in California.Despite all the blood sweat and tears that the gay community has put in to defeating Prop 8, it looks like the cause of marriage equality in this country has been dealt another blow. Another defeat. Another example of the commingling of church and state and the “tyranny of the majority” that our founding fathers fought against. Blah, blah, blah.
I think there are many gay and lesbian citizens who, like me, are enraged by the campaign in support of prop 8. As you know a large chunk of the funding came from the Mormon Church. Instead of just bottling our rage, let’s all get on planes and trains, and in automobiles, and go to Utah. The plan would be for gay and lesbians to visit Utah en masse to make the point that if religious folk are going to encroach on our lives, we will encroach on theirs.
I’m envisioning hoards of drag queens tastefully posing in front of statues of Joseph Smith. Chirping bottoms singing “We are Family” and dancing on that well manicured lawn in front of the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City. Above all, I’m seeing gay couples everywhere HOLDING HANDS in front of the very people who financed this attack on us. I think we need people wearing pink triangles and leather daddies to get the point across, not preppy HRC pencil pushers.
Yes, yes. I know that not ALL Mormons were for Prop 8. And I know that not ALL the money for Prop 8 came from the Mormon Church. However, this excursion is not about protest or even changing minds. It’s about preserving the collective mental health of the gay community through catharsis. I can’t think of a better “FUCK YOU!!” than to litter Salt Lake City with santorum-laced condoms.
Your thoughts?
Stephen G.
It sounds like a hell of a lot more fun than Gay Days at Disneyland or gay cruise, SG, and if someone out there wants to organize “Gay Days in Salt Lake City” and get it off the ground, I’ll help promote through the column and I’ll attend.
Could this be organized to go on during Sundance so I can kill two birds with one ridiculously priced, short flight?
Sounds like a great idea. :)
+2 here-- I've been to SLC, it has promise. Instead of drag bingo, we could do drag skiing!
Do you think there's anything to this? http://www.noonprop8.com/headlines/results-status/
Uh, from your earlier post I would think going into inner cities might be a little better for ya.
Nice idea but I think to get our point across we need to organize a mass exodus of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgenders OUT of California. How long do you think the world's 8th largest economy would last if we pull our support? Canada is looking better with each passing hour.
Nice idea but I think to get our point across we need to organize a mass exodus of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgenders OUT of California. How long do you think the world's 8th largest economy would last if we pull our support? Canada is looking better with each passing hour.
Charleston, SC is on board. We'll be there, Priscilla Queen of the Desert-style.
@6/7, I predict your proposed exodus will be just as successful as the exodus of disaffected liberals to Canada following the 2004 elections.
I was raised in the Mormon church. Definitely no longer Mormon (or religious for that matter) and as a person with a large gay social circle - and also a functioning brain - I think that Prop 8 is ridiculous. I also didn't know that the Mormon church gave money to the campaign. That is even more ridiculous.. and angering.
I would happily caravan to Utah. Maybe in a rainbow string bikini? I might even make out with a girl.. ooooh.
If this can be done without giving the Mormon theocracy that is SLC/UT too many tourist dollars, I say go for it!
Don't leave out the straight but not narrows!! I would be proud and honored to travel with my heterosexually challenged family to paint SLC pink!
To quote Frederick Douglass: "The soul that is within me no man can degrade."
I grew up mormon, and rue what they've done here, and fully support the confronting of Utah mormons with gaydom. But people, this is a new day. You don't win anything by descending to your opponents' level.
I have a friend who said to her daughter this morning, I think Barack Obama understands the importance of brushing your hair and looking presentable before you leave the house in the morning.
Which is what Obama means to us all - you win, you win for us all, by being your best self. We all ought to be trying a little harder to be our best selves. Santorum-laced condoms in the streets show nobody anything (yes, I understand hyperbole, but I must make my point).
Go there, and show them that your lives are not less then theirs, and that their condemnation does not diminish your lives.
As much as this defeat hurts, it outlines the future. Gay Marriage is not an "if" but a "when", and when you compare this incredibly close proposition with the landslide victory of Prop 22 it is clear we are moving in the right direction. Opinions are changing, people are being educated and bigots are running out of places to hide.
Sign me up!
First, this idea would bring a whole hell of a lot of money to the state of Utah and probably to the Mormon church, regardless of how you set it up.
Second, the No on Prop 8 people say this on their site--maybe there's a little hope left?
This idea sounds fun and the passing of Prop 8 has tarnished last night for me, but I am that much more motivated to fight now. It's time to start some shit here in Washington.
Gregoire won and Democrats are still in control in Washington. Obama is President and the world is rejoicing with the blue states. If now is not the time to force our representatives and Governor to pass gay marriage in Washington then it will never happen.
My fiance and I start to write letters to Obama, Gregoire, Reps & Senators in Washington, and Reps in Olympia demanding our equal civil rights. We also intend to encourage everyone we know to do the same.
Dan: You want to get married right? Want to be the figurehead of a movement? Let's get something started!
I had this imagine of a large mass of gays, lesbians, transgenders, bisexuals and friends standing outside the Church of LDS, during one of their services, with everyone singing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow."
Then we proceed with the runway show.
But yes, just having Gay Days or even Pride, in SLC would be a fantastic. We'd just have to bring our own booze.
Great idea, but everyone pack tents, your own snacks (and liquor!) so you don't add to Mormon coffers while you're there.
The only problem is....they took away our rights. Prancing around SLC won't really take theirs away.
Fuckwads.
better yet, do this NOW:
Thousands of couples woke up today no longer legally married...
they are grieving in the midst of real happiness..
I am asking folks to decorate your car ala post-wedding festivities: streamers, balloons plus a sign that says "My Friends are Still Married".
My friends Liz and Henae are out lesbian teachers in Phoenix who were married in CA in July;
Today at lunch their kids in GSA are decorating their car just this way... Join us.
How about a mass gay adoption movement? That would really freak them out...
I'm still scratching my head about the passage of Prop 8. How did such a vile, dehumanizing proposition find majority support in California of all places??!
I hope the legal challenges announced today put this thing on its ass...Someone should get Blue State Digital in Boston involved; they're the folks who ran Obama's online campaign.
Just remove the word marriage from the California laws. Marriage is a loaded word for the religious folks. Let them have it.
Here is how it would read, simply, and still comply with California's recently passed amendment:
1. The state does not issue certifications of marriage, but registers civil unions.
2. All previous certifications of a marriage shall be considered as civil unions for all purposes.
3. Solely for the purposes of all other state and federal statutes which require a designation of marriage, a registration of a civil union between a male and female shall be considered a marriage. However, this designation shall not affect the rights and responsibilities of any registrant of any civil union.
Wouldn't that put money into their economy, to go and visit their stronghold? Or would adding to their tourist economy be a part of the campaign to build better relations?
They brainwash their young and have a lot of propaganda out there. Wouldn't expanded educational campaigns be more effective? I think it would be very useful to help educate the Mormon public rather than just hanging out in Utah. Perhaps a fund should be created for the purpose of developing and distributing educational materials. The approach seems to work pretty well for Dobbs and his kin. Plus it would be relatively inexpensive as the folks running the campaign wouldn't have to siphon money out of the donations to support their questionable lifestyles(large families, drugs, and mistresses on the side). Basically they'd just shun gays more and continue their ignorant ways despite the exodus of gays to Utah. This situation seems to call for a different approach than just raising the moron's ire. Just my opinion....
Google had a sinister connection to the passage of Prop 8. History will not look back kindly on the folks of California. It should break everyone's heart that civil rights are being denied to large group of Americans. I can't even enjoy the Democratic victories because of Prop 8.
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article5082577.ece
Well at least nobody needs to tell us how to get ourselves up, brush ourselves off, and rejoin the fight!
Having recently visited Salt Lake City, I'd say this is a fine thing to do.
Say hi to my sis if you run into her.
I'm a native of Salt Lake City, and while I think this is a mighty fine idea, I think going to Provo, not Salt Lake, would be still finer. SLC actually has a large and active GLBTQ community already, so while a queer ambush would prove the point, it would not be NEARLY as scandalous as in a smaller, more Mormon town like Provo. Imagine legions of homos wiggin' out on BYU campus? Glorious!
Drag queens and leather daddies? Doesn't make sense, when one of their major rationalisations is that gays are too promiscuous and 'unnatural' to have proper marriages. How is playing up to their worst fears going to help anyone?
@6 I think massive synchronized sit-ins at city halls across the state demanding equal rights would be a better tactic. And it can't just be in the big cities--it needs to happen in the central valley as well...
If the support of a straight girl is welcome, I'll be there too. Just name the date and the location.
This will never happen, because a lot of gays simply don't care.
I worked on the No On 8 campaign, and something I discovered during all of the outreach was that a lot of gays just weren't interested. I had situations where I would physically hand a No On 8 sign to a homo, and he'd be like, "oh, no thanks ... I don't want to get involved." THIS WAS NOT INFREQUENT.
It's appalling, and sad, and I'm totally baffled by their behavior.
But I wasn't surprised when Prop 8 passed.
I like the idea, but it seems like one big event wouldn't have much effect. They just wash their hands of us when we leave.
What might work better, is to assign each state one week out of the year to go there and protest. So it's more of a constant nagging that they can't ignore. Idaho goes the first week, Washington state goes the second week, Oregon goes the third week, California goes the 4th week, etc.
@29: Agreed. I say we send 1.3 million Jamie Pedersen clones to SLC and Provo. That should confuse the locals completely.
I would suggest something like the Million Man March on DC. The problem is nationwide, remember? Just make sure you have a real agenda for action afterward. Farrakhan summoned all this energy and support...and then did nothing with it. But the event did get people's attention by the sheer numbers he was able to attract.
I would suggest something like the Million Man March on DC. The problem is national, remember? Just make sure you have an agenda for action afterward. Farrakhan summoned all this energy and support...then did nothing with it. But the sheer numbers he attracted did scare the hell out of people.
The last thing I am going to do is go to Salt Lake City and put money into the hands of MORMON hotel owners, MORMON restaurants and MORMON everything-else.
Sheesh, next you'll be telling us to buy the ugly sacred Mormon underwear.
Being that the LDS church is a 501 c 3 corporation they should have to have that status pulled. they should be taxed. in order to be a 501 c 3 in good standing they can not have any politicial affiliations what so ever they can not promote any legislation. we need to all contact the secretary of state for utah and file complaints and have their 501 c 3 revoked. since they hit us where it hurts lets hit them where it hurts.
Here is the directors email for the department of commerce. everyone should send a complaint to him and totally swamp his email.
dstanley@utah.gov
Being that the LDS church is a 501 c 3 corporation they should have to have that status pulled. they should be taxed. in order to be a 501 c 3 in good standing they can not have any politicial affiliations what so ever they can not promote any legislation. we need to all contact the secretary of state for utah and file complaints and have their 501 c 3 revoked. since they hit us where it hurts lets hit them where it hurts.
Here is the directors email for the department of commerce. everyone should send a complaint to him and totally swamp his email.
dstanley@utah.gov
Being that the LDS church is a 501 c 3 corporation they should have to have that status pulled. they should be taxed. in order to be a 501 c 3 in good standing they can not have any politicial affiliations what so ever they can not promote any legislation. we need to all contact the secretary of state for utah and file complaints and have their 501 c 3 revoked. since they hit us where it hurts lets hit them where it hurts.
Here is the directors email for the department of commerce. everyone should send a complaint to him and totally swamp his email.
dstanley@utah.gov
I thought it was the voters of California that rejected gay marriage.
Need to get a bit grounded, we were outspent and out organized in California.
Queers have lost about 27 anti gay marriage votes, going back to both Alaska and Hawaii, etc, sure the loss in Calif is really sad, but let's face it, we do not have the message or campaign skills or campaign money skill to beat our enemies at the ballot box.
All the fantasy feel good posts in the world don't change the fact that on this issue as well as gay adoption we will loose every time with out a formula of message, movement building, tons of money and more money, and hard work that brings some victories.
In the mean time, God save Mass, and Conn. and Canada, all is not doom, maybe soon New York.
As a lapsed Catholic, I think Fundies and Catholics are just as bad as the Mormons on this issue and tons more influence with voters. Or did the Pope change his opinions last night?
Interesting how the Mormons got stuck with the right wing campaign bill ... wonder if that was a tacit agreement early on among our enemies?
Being that the LDS church is a 501 c 3 corporation they should have to have that status pulled. they should be taxed. in order to be a 501 c 3 in good standing they can not have any politicial affiliations what so ever they can not promote any legislature. we need to all contact the secretary of state for utah and file complaints and have their 501 c 3 revoked. since they hit us where it hurts lets hit them where it hurts.
Here is the directors email for the department of commerce. everyone should send a complaint to him and totally swamp his email.
dstanley@utah.gov
It's like the invasion of Fire Island... which has now homofied an the entire island. I am for it!
above --tax status is a federal thing, via the IRS..... and American Churches on the right are eager for the fight.
For them, the question is why they cannot have full 100 per cent freedom of political expression - very American - under the strong free speech componets of the bill of rights.
Should courts rule aginst them, then their "political positions" become preaching which is obviously very protected.
Before you lead a santorum-fueled attack on SLC, please read the Wiki page of our former mayor Rocky Anderson and realize that we reelected the guy with big majorities both times. I'd wager he was one of the more gay- and green-friendly mayors in the U.S., and I believe his successor, also elected with a big majority, is more of the same. I'm also certain our city government provides partnership benefits to its gay workers, and the city and county created a domestic partnerships registry for its gay citizens, one of the few places in the country to do so. At least three of the state legislators that represent our city are openly gay. Supposedly our yearly gay pride festival is the second most attended event in the city, following the festival commemorating the Mormons' arrival in the Salt Lake Valley. And before I make it sound like it was us hetero-types that did all that, a lot of the credit goes to our very active LGBT community. However, if you really must attack SLC, feel free to smear all the cum and shit you want around Temple Square and the LDS Conference Center, and feel free to caravan down south to Provo, home of BYU, while you're at it.
I suggest a small contingent, with big signs, outside that temple - every fucking day. Have it become part of the architecture. "Over there, that's the statue of Brigham Young. There's the gazebo. There's the protest group reminding us we're shitty homophobes."
ex-Bay Area refugee stuck in Tulare County.
I would help out with some regular visits down here. Wonderful hiking opportunities in the mountains above and plenty of churches who have never met an actual out gay person to visit during services. I hear from friends there are married guys aplenty hooking up with guys too. Fucking hypocrites.
I kind of dream of the attitude adjustment a traveling Folsom Street Fair would bring here too :)
Don't see how you'll do this without creating a financial windfall for the Mormons. Better yet, just mail them hundreds of cases of santorum covered condoms to their church.
As an alternative, you could have everyone in the gay community show up in SLC in normal outfits. You could just walk around and shop and enjoy the city. Spend your money and interact with the locals. Let them know you're gay by holding hands, tasteful shows of affection and talking to them. Show them that you're just normal people, just like them not some crazy hedonists running around in assless chaps all the time and leaving shit covered condoms on the streets and trying to rape their children. (yes, that's how some of them see you)
I'm a big supporter of gay rights and as a straight guy I still think gay equality is one of the most important issues we face as a nation today but nothing sets that cause back more than gay pride parades where you run around half (or completely) naked acting crazy dressing like you're in a circus. I'm sure the release of these events is nice for you on some level but those are exactly the kind of things that scare the general public to the point that they'll believe ridiculous shit like "gay marriage will ruin our families" and "gay couples would wreck any child they adopted". You're just giving ammunition to the people who hate you and want to repress you. Live your life, love who you want but keep in mind that what you do (whether gay, straight, liberal, conservative) reflects on your community and effects peoples willingness to support you or your opponents.
We're gonna have to camp.....they'd make too much money on us otherwise. Come on though, one massive gay ass camp ground would rock.
ex-Bay Area refugee stuck in Tulare County.
I would help out with some regular visits down here. Wonderful hiking opportunities in the mountains above and plenty of churches who have never met an actual out gay person to visit during services. I hear from friends there are married guys aplenty hooking up with guys too. Fucking hypocrites.
I kind of dream of the attitude adjustment a traveling Folsom Street Fair would bring here too :)
Now that I think of it, there is a HUGE Veterans Day Parade here next week. If you want to reach Tulare counties families en masse and prove their families won't fall apart if they meet you, post here and I will help set it up :)
Any SF filmmakers want to make a guerrilla documentary? :)
I will not spend a penny in Utah nor SLC. What all Gay-Americans should do it constantly call their law makers and Insist that Mosques/Synagogues/Churches that speak about, fund, promote, collect signatures for, or otherwise touch a political issue be required to pay taxes on all income. THAT is the way to deal with Church sleeping with State.
Yes!! Fantastic Idea!!! Just riffing on some slogans, off the top of my (still hungover) head:
The Million Mo March
Ya can't spell 'Mormon' without 'MO'!!!
Utah QueerTrek: "Putting the 'Mo' in Mormon since 2008"
Okay, so those are lame, but you get the idea....
Let's get this thing done!!!!!!!!!
:-D
Yes! Fantastic Idea! Okay, I'm just riffing some possible slogans off the top of my (still hungover) head:
The Million Mo March
Ya Can't spell 'Mormon' without 'MO'
Homos for Provo
Utah Queertrek - Putting the 'Mo' back in 'Mormon' since 2008
Okay, so those suck... But you get the idea...
Let's make this thing happen!!
:-D
Whoops.
On tax exemption: 501c3 organizations are enjoined from campaigning from a *candidate.* They are allowed an unlimited amount of generic "voter education" and a limited amount of direct lobbying, both to the electorate and legislative bodies, so long as they meet one of the following standards, at *their* option: the lobbying does not constitute a substantial portion of their activities (with "substantial" being nebulously defined), or that they do not spend over $1 million, which they didn't, I don't think.
Relatedly: unlike what some other commenters have proposed, church members *did not* get tax deductions for giving to Yes on 8. The church, itself, gave little money to the campaign. They encouraged their members to do so, but their members can't deduct for political contributions.
All of that said, Mormons do give tons of money to the church for non-campaign purposes, and a loss of tax exempt status would hurt both the church, itself (loss of money to taxes) and its members (loss of ability to deduct contributions to the church), and perhaps there's some way to make a case on the "substantial portion" front, if they've spent more than the expenditure limit on lobbying, this year.
Those country ass Mormon fucks will see my tourist dollar only as I ram it up their magic underwear clad asses.
I don't recommend spending any money on the Mormons, but if you do, buy some sacred Mormon underwear. It pisses them off greatly when "Gentiles" get a hold of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnVOK42o4E0
I live in Salt Lake City and can assure you that, if you travel here, you will find a vibrant and welcoming gay and lesbian community. Some of us even know what we're doing. Salt Lake City is a magnet community for homos throughout the entire mountainwest region, so please don't regard us as totally hopeless.
We're actually very mainstream in the city, but we maintain a tasty bit of that alty-underground vibe, living as we do under the dark shadow of the oppressive Mormon Church--you might find this to be perversely refreshing compared to your own big-city, balls-out, blatant lifestyles.
We manage to produce the the state's second-largest parade (second to the Mormon clusterfuck July 24 "Days of '47 Parade") in mid-June every year without being thrown in Guantanamo.
So, just sayin', if you want to organize a big group-mooning of the Salt Lake Temple, and any number of other fun activities, please look us up--we'll be more than happy to facilitate and participate in your plans. (Plus we've got lots of cute, eager ex-Mormon fags, cowboys and dykes who are very, very hospitable!)
I don't care if people are gay and I don't care if people are Mormon, though I do disagree with ANY/ALL organized religions. Why can't all of you just shut up and live your lives?
Mormons... get, and keep, your noses out of anyone elses affairs but your own. Most men dumb enough to get married have PLENTY to worry about with just one wife... you'd think with MANY of them you'd have no time or energy for anything else. You've got plenty of child-screwing problems to deal with as well. You've got compounds that you apparently love... stay there? How bout it?
Gays... shut up and quit bitching about marriage and other meaningless BS. Why do you care if the government recognizes your marriage? You wanna be gay, fine, be it, but shut the hell up about it! Come up with a commission or whatever where the gay community chooses its own "sign" of marriage. One that lets ALL other gays (and everyone else) know that you're gay, proud, and married... something subtle, like a ring on the "ring finger". But shut up with the protests, the parades, the gay-this, gay-that... just LIVE your damn lives. Most backlash against your community isn't because people really care if you're gay ('cept from religious nuts... who are, well, nuts!)... but for the rest of us it's that you ALWAYS insist on being so loud and demonstrative about it to anyone that'll listen.
Here's the theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSSj4hC3zvQ
I'm there.
Revenge-fuck every closet case Mormon you can find. Why, I did two of 'em already.
I am mormon and am stronly against prop 8. If you go to Utah and prance around them you will only make them feel more strongly about their stand on the situtation. Trust me. If you go to Utah and Idaho (huge mormon land) and show how monogomous gay couples can be and show how loving gays can be toards their children then this might work. Mormons do NOT know other gay people. They only know what the church tells them or other gay mormons who are so depressed withtheir state of mind. These gay people in the mormon community are in danger of suicide... They need to get away. Idaho is a place where are the mormons who think Utah is not mormon enough go to escape all the nonmormons. Mormons keep to themselves and dont try to socialize amongst non mormons. If there is a movement against the church I WANT TO BE INVOLVED~!