Slog - Comments on Neil Steinberg On Last Week's Gay Marriage Defeats http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag The Chicago Sun-Time Columnist weighs in... The look-how-far-we’ve-come aspect of Obama’s triumph was mitigated by citizens in California, Florida and Arizona voting to bar gay marriage. An awful intrusion of government into the private sphere, one we would never tolerate if it didn’t touch upon the American obsession with sex. I mean, we’d never ban gays from holding fishing licenses, arguing that they somehow spoil the fishing experience for the rest of us. But religious conservatives have cooked up this palpable lie about gays and marriage, based on nothing at all, and the public has accepted it because it tickles... Copyright 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:18:12 -0800 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:21:46 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by come on people If we can have fishing licenses, then it's possible for us to run into families fishing. This will ruin the experience of fishing for the family, so I think we've found another thing to ban.

]]> come on people http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200709 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200709 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:48:04 -0800 Comment by Pit Bull in Pasco woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof woof WOOF woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof woof WOOF woof woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF woof woof woof woof WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF!!!

]]> Pit Bull in Pasco http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200713 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200713 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:56:34 -0800 Comment by Original Monique I talked to my mormon grandparents about this on Friday. I told them that it wasn't about if people *thought* gay marriage or gays were wrong. I said it was that the Mormon church lied constantly about what that would mean for average people, which goes against their religion.

My grandfather said something, and it floored me, even if I knew to expect it. He said:

"I knew gay people when I was a kid, but they had the decency to never talk about it or flaunt it. They kept it to themselves, and it should stay that way".

So yes, this is a generational thing. It totally sucks that people have to DIE OFF before real rights can be given to gay people, but apparently that is the way it will go.

]]> Original Monique http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200714 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200714 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:01:17 -0800 Comment by Laurel Arnold Schwarzenegger had some encouraging comments in the LA Times this weekend (here). It's nice to see someone that used to be opposed to gay marriage just a few years ago has changed his tune.

]]> Laurel http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200719 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200719 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:11:14 -0800 Comment by blank12357 Yeah, the generational thing. But also, civil rights movements always struggle when they focus on the interests of a smaller group within society. I think the gay marriage movement would do well to shift the focus from "gay" onto "marriage", presenting a modern, liberal notion of what healthy marriages look like.

We need this. Looking around at my married friends, I see problems that no one wants to talk about. How many married couples do you know that are very satisfied with their sex lives? By bringing a fresh perspective, gay couples can reinvigorate marriage for everyone, and get their civil rights as part of the package.

]]> blank12357 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200722 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200722 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:15:55 -0800 Comment by Hernandez @3 - That attitude that you're talking about, it permeates every conservative religious community. I have a lot of religious family members, and they share that same "it's okay if you're gay just as long as I never have to acknowledge it" perspective.

]]> Hernandez http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200733 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200733 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:32:33 -0800 Comment by Andy Niable Another great article:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/ c/a/2008/11/09/MNU1140AQQ.DTL

It would seem Mormons and Catholics voters made a much greater statistical impact than African American Evangelicals.

]]> Andy Niable http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200735 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200735 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:34:15 -0800 Comment by Andy Niable @4: yes, how nice of Arnold to finally come around... too bad it was after he VETOED marriage equality TWICE.

]]> Andy Niable http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200738 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200738 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:36:20 -0800 Comment by dangerkitty And lets not forget that BLIND people are allowed to hunt.

]]> dangerkitty http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200755 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200755 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:54:28 -0800 Comment by Vince Thanks for all the cute little quips. (and the absurd ones as well) but I heard those black preachers bearing false witness as well. In case your wondering, it's not a choice to be gay, as they lied. It is a choice to live as a free and happy person and not let yourself be walked all over and black mailed out of fear. And just for the record, I believe this was the Democrats throwing us under the bus like they always do.

]]> Vince http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200799 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200799 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:20:52 -0800 Comment by happyhedonist "Just like civil rights, this is a generational war that will be won, I have absolutely no doubt, in the fullness of time. But not yet."

i'm sorry - just like civil rights!? this is (denial of or a fight for) civil rights. fuck you, chicago sun-times. you are still not getting it.

i won't call out the family member who argued this when measure 36 was the hot topic here in oregon, but do you even *want* to know what her principle argument was? "i don't want to tell someone i'm married and have them wonder whether it's to a man or a woman!" and her favorite cousin is gay as a jaybird.

i am not even shitting you. the first three levels of ludicrous are: 'people's assumptions about me trump your civil rights', 'i care more about what people i only just met think than people i love and am related to' and 'married is such an important part of who i am that all this is true, but i don't think marriage is that important to you.' it took several seconds to scrape my jaw off the ground and set to work making all these points, none of which evidently made any impact.

it's important to know what the enemy are saying. but i just can't read arguments in the newspaper on this shit. it's infuriating enough when i *can* dissect people's bigoted arguments for them, i can't imagine having to read that rubbish without an opportunity for rebuttal.

]]> happyhedonist http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200824 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200824 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:47:29 -0800 Comment by STJA Next they'll be wanting to drive cars or something. YOU MIGHT HIT A FAMILY!!!

]]> STJA http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200972 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1200972 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:48:34 -0800 Comment by Brett MSNBC is pushing that Olbermann will have a Special Comment about Prop. 8 tonight.

]]> Brett http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1201195 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1201195 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:02:17 -0800 Comment by Jessie @3 I teach "Intro to Women's Studies" at a state university in a small midwestern town, and I still have lots of students (college students!) who say they don't mind gay people as long as they don't flaunt it.

It's mind-blowing.

]]> Jessie http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1201532 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/neil_steinberg_on_last_weeks_gay_marriag#c1201532 2008 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:21:46 -0800