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Monday, November 10, 2008

Neil Steinberg On Last Week’s Gay Marriage Defeats

posted by on November 10 at 8:18 AM

The Chicago Sun-Time Columnist weighs in

The look-how-far-we’ve-come aspect of Obama’s triumph was mitigated by citizens in California, Florida and Arizona voting to bar gay marriage. An awful intrusion of government into the private sphere, one we would never tolerate if it didn’t touch upon the American obsession with sex. I mean, we’d never ban gays from holding fishing licenses, arguing that they somehow spoil the fishing experience for the rest of us.

But religious conservatives have cooked up this palpable lie about gays and marriage, based on nothing at all, and the public has accepted it because it tickles the unexamined biases they already have.

Just like civil rights, this is a generational war that will be won, I have absolutely no doubt, in the fullness of time. But not yet.

RSS icon Comments

1

If we can have fishing licenses, then it's possible for us to run into families fishing. This will ruin the experience of fishing for the family, so I think we've found another thing to ban.

Posted by come on people | November 10, 2008 8:48 AM
2

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Posted by Pit Bull in Pasco | November 10, 2008 8:56 AM
3

I talked to my mormon grandparents about this on Friday. I told them that it wasn't about if people *thought* gay marriage or gays were wrong. I said it was that the Mormon church lied constantly about what that would mean for average people, which goes against their religion.

My grandfather said something, and it floored me, even if I knew to expect it. He said:

"I knew gay people when I was a kid, but they had the decency to never talk about it or flaunt it. They kept it to themselves, and it should stay that way".

So yes, this is a generational thing. It totally sucks that people have to DIE OFF before real rights can be given to gay people, but apparently that is the way it will go.

Posted by Original Monique | November 10, 2008 9:01 AM
4

Arnold Schwarzenegger had some encouraging comments in the LA Times this weekend (here). It's nice to see someone that used to be opposed to gay marriage just a few years ago has changed his tune.

Posted by Laurel | November 10, 2008 9:11 AM
5

Yeah, the generational thing. But also, civil rights movements always struggle when they focus on the interests of a smaller group within society. I think the gay marriage movement would do well to shift the focus from "gay" onto "marriage", presenting a modern, liberal notion of what healthy marriages look like.

We need this. Looking around at my married friends, I see problems that no one wants to talk about. How many married couples do you know that are very satisfied with their sex lives? By bringing a fresh perspective, gay couples can reinvigorate marriage for everyone, and get their civil rights as part of the package.

Posted by blank12357 | November 10, 2008 9:15 AM
6

@3 - That attitude that you're talking about, it permeates every conservative religious community. I have a lot of religious family members, and they share that same "it's okay if you're gay just as long as I never have to acknowledge it" perspective.

Posted by Hernandez | November 10, 2008 9:32 AM
7

Another great article:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/ c/a/2008/11/09/MNU1140AQQ.DTL

It would seem Mormons and Catholics voters made a much greater statistical impact than African American Evangelicals.

Posted by Andy Niable | November 10, 2008 9:34 AM
8

@4: yes, how nice of Arnold to finally come around... too bad it was after he VETOED marriage equality TWICE.

Posted by Andy Niable | November 10, 2008 9:36 AM
9

And lets not forget that BLIND people are allowed to hunt.

Posted by dangerkitty | November 10, 2008 9:54 AM
10

Thanks for all the cute little quips. (and the absurd ones as well) but I heard those black preachers bearing false witness as well. In case your wondering, it's not a choice to be gay, as they lied. It is a choice to live as a free and happy person and not let yourself be walked all over and black mailed out of fear. And just for the record, I believe this was the Democrats throwing us under the bus like they always do.

Posted by Vince | November 10, 2008 10:20 AM
11

"Just like civil rights, this is a generational war that will be won, I have absolutely no doubt, in the fullness of time. But not yet."

i'm sorry - just like civil rights!? this is (denial of or a fight for) civil rights. fuck you, chicago sun-times. you are still not getting it.

i won't call out the family member who argued this when measure 36 was the hot topic here in oregon, but do you even *want* to know what her principle argument was? "i don't want to tell someone i'm married and have them wonder whether it's to a man or a woman!" and her favorite cousin is gay as a jaybird.

i am not even shitting you. the first three levels of ludicrous are: 'people's assumptions about me trump your civil rights', 'i care more about what people i only just met think than people i love and am related to' and 'married is such an important part of who i am that all this is true, but i don't think marriage is that important to you.' it took several seconds to scrape my jaw off the ground and set to work making all these points, none of which evidently made any impact.

it's important to know what the enemy are saying. but i just can't read arguments in the newspaper on this shit. it's infuriating enough when i *can* dissect people's bigoted arguments for them, i can't imagine having to read that rubbish without an opportunity for rebuttal.

Posted by happyhedonist | November 10, 2008 10:47 AM
12

Next they'll be wanting to drive cars or something. YOU MIGHT HIT A FAMILY!!!

Posted by STJA | November 10, 2008 11:48 AM
13

MSNBC is pushing that Olbermann will have a Special Comment about Prop. 8 tonight.

Posted by Brett | November 10, 2008 2:02 PM
14

@3 I teach "Intro to Women's Studies" at a state university in a small midwestern town, and I still have lots of students (college students!) who say they don't mind gay people as long as they don't flaunt it.

It's mind-blowing.

Posted by Jessie | November 10, 2008 5:21 PM

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