I'll believe it when I see more than protests. Saying they're the new Coors implies that our efforts will have a financial impact on them. When I see that Marriott hotels have seen a boycott related drop in convention and tourism business, when I see that Utah is experiencing a huge decline in tourism money, in particular, that Sundance has moved elsewhere, and when I see that actual tithes from church members who disagree with the church hierarchy have withered, stopped, or been directed to pro-equality causes, then I'll believe they're the new Coors.
And if in twenty years, the Mormon church has a GLBT outreach program headed by the lesbian daughter of a conservative Republican, I'll really believe it.
To this day I still can't drink Coors due to their anti-gay practices (of yore?). Even if they've changed...it still leaves a bad taste (excuse the really awful and obvious pun) in my mouth.
It's a lot harder to boycott a church to which you don't belong (and will indeed excommunicate you if you take sexy pictures of boys, let alone come out) than it is to boycott a beer.
I think y'all got your sights set too damn low.
Every Californian who voted for prop8 should be made to pay in full coin for their bigotry.
Yes, what exactly are you boycotting? Were you in the habit of pumping money into the LDS church before, and now you're going to stop? Coors is a product you can refuse to buy. What, are you going to stop buying their underwear?
It sucked to be standing in that throng on Tuesday and have to console gay friends about P8.
Given that the idea of the present is that we refrain from exacting retribution on the Right and instead focus on how much better the Left is at fixing our problems -- what do you say we take that suppressed vindictiveness and turn it against the Mormon Church?
If anyone is going to a california prop 8 protest, or any gay marriage rally, feel free to use this as a sign. I made it a while ago and totally forgot about it till now:
If anyone is going to a california prop 8 protest, or any gay marriage rally, feel free to use this as a sign. I made it a while ago and totally forgot about it till now:
@10 After all of the "Mormons own this..." and "Mormons own that..." rumors I've heard over the years, I'd imagine there are plenty of things. If only I'd paid attention.
Posted by
Mike in Renton |
November 7, 2008 11:19 AM
First, I think the tax fight is terrible. Mormon's are prone to feeling like they are the victims, and indeed, they campaigned for Prop 8 on this very point, that they'd be attacked as a religion. And, really, I don't think there's any chance in hell that they are going to lose their tax exempt status.
Now...Sundance! That's an area where we can have traction.
I, too, have been to Sundance, and realize that Park City is not mormon. But...this is where we can gain traction. There are many, many vacation rentals owned by mormons. The money flows to mormons. What's more, those non-mormons who run the festival rely heavily on mormons to run the festival, and live amongst many mormons. They are more likely to bring pressure to their friends than we are.
Further, Sundance provides big financials to the ski areas and Park City itself, which brings big tourism dollars in general to Utah. Cut it off. Force the Sundance committee to change location or die.
In the 70's, black members of Football Teams refused to play games against BYU until their priesthood ban was removed. We need an action on that level, and regardless of the mixed message, I think Sundance is a good, high profile target.
Utah has those "Ski Utah!" plates. Those could be used for a campaign called "Skip Utah!" where Sundance bows out and heads somewhere else, people cancel ski trips, vacations, etc.
Idaho is pretty conservative, but they're a whole lot less wingnutty and cash-happy. Montana, maybe? Or just ski in Washington and B.C.!
Darcy...but, do you have the Sundance Channel on your TV? Do you have friends who attend the Sundance Film Festival? Do you have friends who work on film projects that they submit to the Sundance festival?
I'm not saying this is the only effort that should be taken, but this would be one that the gay community could quickly gain traction on.
@21: No, no, and no. My friends are all slovenly unemployed short fiction writers and graduate students. But now that I think of it, I did go through Utah on a cross-country road trip with my family once. My parents are national park junkies.
It will be interesting to see how many people show up for the annual Sundance Queer Brunch. I have 2 films that have been submitted for this years festival. I am going to be completely torn as to what to do should either of them be accepted.
uhmm...boycotting Sundance is punishing the liberals. It's punishing the people making documentaries about the downtrodden people of the world. Etc., Etc. I don't think it's that easy to move the festival--afterall, Robert Redford's Sundance Institute is right there. Wouldn't it be better to have Sundance be a staging opportunity? Sundance spills into SLC. YOu have a bunch of liberals from all over the country flooding into Mormon territory for the festival. They own the place. Maybe in that there is opportunity.
Utah the new Coors? The LDS Church does not speak for all of Utah. The 32% of us who voted for Obama are sure as hell doing our part to stop the insanity, rallying to remove the church's tax-exempt status and gathering to protest outside of the Temple tonight at 6 p.m. Please don't generalize the entire state as a bunch of hateful zealots.
Posted by
Utahn for Equality |
November 7, 2008 12:07 PM
Alion...flooding SLC with liberal gay people only gives them tourist dollars and an increased feeling they are doing god's work.
So it will be tough for Sundance to relocate. Big deal.
Support SIFF. I've been to both and prefer SIFF anyway. Things change. So what if Robert Redford has to make a tough decision. We all have to make tough decisions.
I realize that not all mormons are evil; but supporting the LDS Church is evil, and I'm tired of apologizing for the liberal mormons who in the end only serve to enable their more homophobic associates. There's no valid path to loyal opposition in the LDS Church, and those who pretend to such are fools.
@28: I think 26/27 both still have a point, though, at least in terms of working with liberals in Utah. I'm honestly not sure what a boycott of Sundance is really supposed to accomplish, unless you think the falloff in tourism dollars will somehow force the state to do something about the LDS church. Which is still only tangentially related to fighting for LGBT civil rights.
1. Fact, the Mormon Church accepts NO money from any governmental source. None. Not Federal, state or local. All their social service which are vast are self funded. Doctrine for them is to not take welfare, ie. money from the state. All is done internally, and their programs for food, housing etc. are excellent..
2. Any business interests they own, and there are some, but not the vast assumption made from the outside, all pay taxes as any other business. No exemptions are claimed, even if possible because they are church owned. And, just because the Marriott chain was started by a Mormon family does not mean it is owned by the church, and it is a tad strange that it is assumed the church owns all the property and businesses owned by its millions of members. Facts, please.
3. All Mormon buildings, including social centers, churches, offices are debt free. Paid for in full before use.
4. Mormons do take property tax exemptions on the actual temples, ward houses, stake centers, ie. their churches.
5. There is no paid clergy, it is a vast army of dedicated volunteers. Hence low overhead, no salaries to speak of except in administration. Those missionary men, thousands and thousands worldwide, pay their own expenses, from savings, friends, neighbors and family.
Launching boycotts of the church vs. the voters is interesting, but, the backfire is solidarity among the 20 churches which joined openly in Calif. to fight us queers. Mormons offered to pay the bills, but were not alone at all.
Post election stories suggest the Catholics did a lot of member messages in the last week, which, may have been more important than any Mormon effort aside from money. Large numbers of Catholics as well as all the other evangelicals AND the Republican party were organizing at peak against us in the last two weeks - to defeat gay marriage for the second time in the decade in an all state Calif. ballot, and they did.
What next is indeed a good question, how to channel the anger and frustration and temper is some direction that works, that is the question of the coming months.
As much as I feel a desire to boycott the Mormon Church or even Utah, I do have agree that this may not be the best method.
Since bankrupting the Mormon Church would be like trying to bankrupt the Vatican, from past discussions the best place to hit them is in the ability to recruit new members. Remember that Mormon money built Las Vegas casinos so when you talk about gays invading SLC this would have zero influence. We are not talking about Southern Baptists here. Ultimately, for them it comes down to the Benjamins and recruitment and gays can't procreate a dozen children.
Move Sundance to the Adirondacks for a couple years till the mormons die off. Its beautiful there, close to NYC and now that NY has a majority dem state assembly gay marriage will pass soon.
Can someone explain the Coors reference? The Wikipedia site is of no use, though it does say that Coors was one of the first companies to extend benefits to same-sex couples...
@34 The Coors family is a very, very wealthy family, and various members have spent millions of dollars on anti-gay causes. This led to a boycott on Coors beer by gay bars, and given the propensity for alcohol consumption by queers, this had a real impact on their business. To this day, there remain many gay bars where Coors is not available.
Whenever you see the word Deseret in a company title, it typically means it's owned by the LDS church. There's a Deseret Book Shop in Bellevue http://deseretbook.com/about/5008532 but I doubt anyone reading this shops there anyway. Also Deseret Industries in Shoreline. And then there are the Mormon Tabernacle Choir cds.
Posted by
mormon hunter |
November 7, 2008 1:06 PM
So...Mormons are weak, taste like shit and litter the beds of hillbilly trucks?
woof woof WOOF woof woof woof WOOF woof woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF woof woof WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!!!
I'll believe it when I see more than protests. Saying they're the new Coors implies that our efforts will have a financial impact on them. When I see that Marriott hotels have seen a boycott related drop in convention and tourism business, when I see that Utah is experiencing a huge decline in tourism money, in particular, that Sundance has moved elsewhere, and when I see that actual tithes from church members who disagree with the church hierarchy have withered, stopped, or been directed to pro-equality causes, then I'll believe they're the new Coors.
And if in twenty years, the Mormon church has a GLBT outreach program headed by the lesbian daughter of a conservative Republican, I'll really believe it.
Park City is the least Mormon town in Utah. Sundance can stay. Plus I love it, so don't fuck with it.
To this day I still can't drink Coors due to their anti-gay practices (of yore?). Even if they've changed...it still leaves a bad taste (excuse the really awful and obvious pun) in my mouth.
5: Some Mormon guys leave a good taste in my mouth (dirty comment for the day)
So there's a boycott? What are we boycotting? I love boycotts!
It's a lot harder to boycott a church to which you don't belong (and will indeed excommunicate you if you take sexy pictures of boys, let alone come out) than it is to boycott a beer.
I think y'all got your sights set too damn low.
Every Californian who voted for prop8 should be made to pay in full coin for their bigotry.
Fuck boycotting the LDS. Boycott California!
Sign the petition to revoke their tax-exempt status...
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/#petition
Yes, what exactly are you boycotting? Were you in the habit of pumping money into the LDS church before, and now you're going to stop? Coors is a product you can refuse to buy. What, are you going to stop buying their underwear?
It sucked to be standing in that throng on Tuesday and have to console gay friends about P8.
Given that the idea of the present is that we refrain from exacting retribution on the Right and instead focus on how much better the Left is at fixing our problems -- what do you say we take that suppressed vindictiveness and turn it against the Mormon Church?
Lets figure out how to hurt 'em.
If anyone is going to a california prop 8 protest, or any gay marriage rally, feel free to use this as a sign. I made it a while ago and totally forgot about it till now:
http://flickr.com/photos/captaintim/3010238209/
gays need to boycott lusting after LDS members. obviously it'll be tough to do but it must be done.
You hurt them by taking away their tax-exempt status. The UK already has. What the fuck are we waiting for?
If anyone is going to a california prop 8 protest, or any gay marriage rally, feel free to use this as a sign. I made it a while ago and totally forgot about it till now:
http://flickr.com/photos/captaintim/3010238209/
@10 After all of the "Mormons own this..." and "Mormons own that..." rumors I've heard over the years, I'd imagine there are plenty of things. If only I'd paid attention.
damn double post. i waited minutes after the first didn't show up to try again.
I've spent years fighting mormons on this issue.
First, I think the tax fight is terrible. Mormon's are prone to feeling like they are the victims, and indeed, they campaigned for Prop 8 on this very point, that they'd be attacked as a religion. And, really, I don't think there's any chance in hell that they are going to lose their tax exempt status.
Now...Sundance! That's an area where we can have traction.
I, too, have been to Sundance, and realize that Park City is not mormon. But...this is where we can gain traction. There are many, many vacation rentals owned by mormons. The money flows to mormons. What's more, those non-mormons who run the festival rely heavily on mormons to run the festival, and live amongst many mormons. They are more likely to bring pressure to their friends than we are.
Further, Sundance provides big financials to the ski areas and Park City itself, which brings big tourism dollars in general to Utah. Cut it off. Force the Sundance committee to change location or die.
In the 70's, black members of Football Teams refused to play games against BYU until their priesthood ban was removed. We need an action on that level, and regardless of the mixed message, I think Sundance is a good, high profile target.
Sundance is a bold move.
Utah has those "Ski Utah!" plates. Those could be used for a campaign called "Skip Utah!" where Sundance bows out and heads somewhere else, people cancel ski trips, vacations, etc.
Idaho is pretty conservative, but they're a whole lot less wingnutty and cash-happy. Montana, maybe? Or just ski in Washington and B.C.!
I've already be de facto boycotting Utah for 26 years, so uh...
Darcy...but, do you have the Sundance Channel on your TV? Do you have friends who attend the Sundance Film Festival? Do you have friends who work on film projects that they submit to the Sundance festival?
I'm not saying this is the only effort that should be taken, but this would be one that the gay community could quickly gain traction on.
@21: No, no, and no. My friends are all slovenly unemployed short fiction writers and graduate students. But now that I think of it, I did go through Utah on a cross-country road trip with my family once. My parents are national park junkies.
It will be interesting to see how many people show up for the annual Sundance Queer Brunch. I have 2 films that have been submitted for this years festival. I am going to be completely torn as to what to do should either of them be accepted.
Make Zion National Forest its own state called Zionah. #51. Then I'm completely guilt free.
(That said, I think Springdale, UT, the biggest little city near Zion and Bryce Canyon is an exception to Utah cities anyway.)
Also FWIW, there was a protest of hundreds of Mormon Moms of gay children who were chanting No on 8 -- yes, in UTAH, this happened.
Not all of Utah is evil, and neither are all Mormons evil either. (Especially since The Stranger are big supporters of the band Low.)
uhmm...boycotting Sundance is punishing the liberals. It's punishing the people making documentaries about the downtrodden people of the world. Etc., Etc. I don't think it's that easy to move the festival--afterall, Robert Redford's Sundance Institute is right there. Wouldn't it be better to have Sundance be a staging opportunity? Sundance spills into SLC. YOu have a bunch of liberals from all over the country flooding into Mormon territory for the festival. They own the place. Maybe in that there is opportunity.
Utah the new Coors? The LDS Church does not speak for all of Utah. The 32% of us who voted for Obama are sure as hell doing our part to stop the insanity, rallying to remove the church's tax-exempt status and gathering to protest outside of the Temple tonight at 6 p.m. Please don't generalize the entire state as a bunch of hateful zealots.
Alion...flooding SLC with liberal gay people only gives them tourist dollars and an increased feeling they are doing god's work.
So it will be tough for Sundance to relocate. Big deal.
Support SIFF. I've been to both and prefer SIFF anyway. Things change. So what if Robert Redford has to make a tough decision. We all have to make tough decisions.
I realize that not all mormons are evil; but supporting the LDS Church is evil, and I'm tired of apologizing for the liberal mormons who in the end only serve to enable their more homophobic associates. There's no valid path to loyal opposition in the LDS Church, and those who pretend to such are fools.
Why are you all overlooking the role of the Catholic church? Are you going to boycott Italy?
@28: I think 26/27 both still have a point, though, at least in terms of working with liberals in Utah. I'm honestly not sure what a boycott of Sundance is really supposed to accomplish, unless you think the falloff in tourism dollars will somehow force the state to do something about the LDS church. Which is still only tangentially related to fighting for LGBT civil rights.
All this chatter needs to get a bit grounded.
1. Fact, the Mormon Church accepts NO money from any governmental source. None. Not Federal, state or local. All their social service which are vast are self funded. Doctrine for them is to not take welfare, ie. money from the state. All is done internally, and their programs for food, housing etc. are excellent..
2. Any business interests they own, and there are some, but not the vast assumption made from the outside, all pay taxes as any other business. No exemptions are claimed, even if possible because they are church owned. And, just because the Marriott chain was started by a Mormon family does not mean it is owned by the church, and it is a tad strange that it is assumed the church owns all the property and businesses owned by its millions of members. Facts, please.
3. All Mormon buildings, including social centers, churches, offices are debt free. Paid for in full before use.
4. Mormons do take property tax exemptions on the actual temples, ward houses, stake centers, ie. their churches.
5. There is no paid clergy, it is a vast army of dedicated volunteers. Hence low overhead, no salaries to speak of except in administration. Those missionary men, thousands and thousands worldwide, pay their own expenses, from savings, friends, neighbors and family.
Launching boycotts of the church vs. the voters is interesting, but, the backfire is solidarity among the 20 churches which joined openly in Calif. to fight us queers. Mormons offered to pay the bills, but were not alone at all.
Post election stories suggest the Catholics did a lot of member messages in the last week, which, may have been more important than any Mormon effort aside from money. Large numbers of Catholics as well as all the other evangelicals AND the Republican party were organizing at peak against us in the last two weeks - to defeat gay marriage for the second time in the decade in an all state Calif. ballot, and they did.
What next is indeed a good question, how to channel the anger and frustration and temper is some direction that works, that is the question of the coming months.
Some thoughts, for what it is worth.
As much as I feel a desire to boycott the Mormon Church or even Utah, I do have agree that this may not be the best method.
Since bankrupting the Mormon Church would be like trying to bankrupt the Vatican, from past discussions the best place to hit them is in the ability to recruit new members. Remember that Mormon money built Las Vegas casinos so when you talk about gays invading SLC this would have zero influence. We are not talking about Southern Baptists here. Ultimately, for them it comes down to the Benjamins and recruitment and gays can't procreate a dozen children.
Move Sundance to the Adirondacks for a couple years till the mormons die off. Its beautiful there, close to NYC and now that NY has a majority dem state assembly gay marriage will pass soon.
Can someone explain the Coors reference? The Wikipedia site is of no use, though it does say that Coors was one of the first companies to extend benefits to same-sex couples...
@34 The Coors family is a very, very wealthy family, and various members have spent millions of dollars on anti-gay causes. This led to a boycott on Coors beer by gay bars, and given the propensity for alcohol consumption by queers, this had a real impact on their business. To this day, there remain many gay bars where Coors is not available.
Whenever you see the word Deseret in a company title, it typically means it's owned by the LDS church. There's a Deseret Book Shop in Bellevue http://deseretbook.com/about/5008532 but I doubt anyone reading this shops there anyway. Also Deseret Industries in Shoreline. And then there are the Mormon Tabernacle Choir cds.
@36 is totally correct. there are some other key words you can look for as well.
But I doubt it will stop them - they own Coke.
Looking for somebody to boycott? in Seattle? KIRO TV and their advertisers. Its owned by the LDS church's holding company Bonneville.
speaking of advertisers... what's up with the Coor's banner ad on the top of the Stranger's home page?
Err... sorry, but KIRO is owned by Cox Communications, no longer Bonneville.