Comments on Did You Need More Proof He's a Dick?
What a sad, pathetic man.
Shep Smith (he's got to be a 'mo) did a service for us all with his take down of this fool.
moaning prig
How the hell did that man get half a million votes? Christ.
John McCain comes out of this election with his honor, his dignity, and his legacy intact. Ralph Nader is another story.*
*Now that I think of it, I don't think Nader had any honor, dignity, or integrity left going into this election.
When is Unilever going to up the toxic chemicals in Polident and shut Ralph Nader up for good?
He really has to stop winking at me.
I don't watch Fox and have no idea who this guy is, but "Really... Ralph Nader? What was that?" is now one of my favorite media moments of this campaign.
Fuck Ralph Nader. He should have stopped at seat belts.
Wow, Nadar is a bigger dick that the Nadar supporters in front of the Showbox last night.
Huh.
I don't watch Fox and don't know who this guy is, but "Really... Ralph Nader? What was that?" is now one of my favorite campaign media moments. Fuck Ralph Nader. He should've stopped with seat belts.
Wow. Just wow.
Isn't an Uncle Tom a black guy who kisses up to a white man? That's kinda what Obama is doing. But the bigger question I suppose was Nader using the term racially, right?
Yikes. Nader pretended through that whole interview that there weren't any racist connotations to using the phrase "Uncle Tom." Get a clue, douchey. I agree in hoping that Obama doesn't turn into a corporate shill, but christ, how about a modicum of tact or respect?
Nader didn't appear to be using it in a racist manner, though. He tried to explain it at the end, but was cut off. It's unfortunate that the term is now used to speak ill of black people.
Fox News thinks you are out of line when putting down a Democrat?
That isn't good.
Shep Smith has done the cleverest repositioning of any of the Fox News people. Over the last couple weeks when Joe the Plumber and now Nader made shit statements Shep quickly booked them in order to fuck with them in his patented lizard-eyed way. It's the exact moralizing routine he gladly wielded against decent people during the Bush years. Now, Joe and Nader made their beds and deserve the consequences, but beware thinking Shep has suddenly grown a pair. He simply wanted to ingratiate himself with the incoming power structure as quickly and vividly as he could.
What. An. Asshole.
didnt dan savage just go on a racial rant about black homophobia? where's the slog about him being a dick?
Markus, that term has meant bad things to black people for several decades, at least. If he didn't want it taken racially, he shouldn't have used a term that's inextricably linked with race.
Nope, that'll do nicely. I'm convinced.
I like Ralph Nader. I voted for him.
Didn't you hear him standing up for poor Americans of color?
Whether or not you should try and use "uncle tom" in a non-racist manner in this day and age is questionable, and who knows if its possible,... but you know it wasn't his intent to make a racist statement.
All you people that call Ralph Nader a dick, etc. for running for president are simple-minded. That's what I think.
I like Ralph Nader. I voted for him.
Didn't you hear him standing up for poor Americans of color?
Whether or not you should try and use "uncle tom" in a non-racist manner in this day and age is questionable, and who knows if its possible,... but you know it wasn't his intent to make a racist statement.
All you people that call Ralph Nader a dick, etc. for running for president are simple-minded. That's what I think.
Congrats, Ralph. You have now been outmaneuvered by the Corvair.
yeah, it's not so graceful of way to get his point across, because the shock value is all that most people see, and don't even make their way to his actual point. He's challenging Obama to actually go through with fighting corporate power. Nader knows how to push buttons and piss people off. It worked. But instead of dwelling on your interpretation of the term 'Uncle Tom', think about the challenge Ralph is talking about, it's extremely valid and true. And if you don't know who he is, watch the documentary about him. http://www.anunreasonableman.com/ He has done more for our country than most politicians.
Good god I'm glad I don't have cable.
Oh, Sam . . . I think Nader has every right to run for President. I voted for him in 2000 and I don't regret it. But he could easily make the argument that the people will be holding Obama to a very high standard and hoping he stands up for their interests against those of corporations (which I do agree with) without using an obviously racially loaded phrase for no apparent reason other than shock value. Period. I used to admire Nader; now I just think he is a sad, pathetic, and irrelevant man hoping for just a little bit more of the spotlight, whatever the reason.
Are you people stupid, or what? He asked whether or not Obama will turn out to be an Uncle Sam or an Uncle Tom. Probably, "House Ni**er" (really, Stranger, your comment filter won't allow that word?) would be the more appropriate phrase, but wouldn't have been as poetic given the comparison with "Uncle Sam".
At any rate, given Obama's record, it's obviously a legitimate question.
And you know what? If, on his first day in office, Obama calls off the fucking "Drug War" and pardons all non-violent drug-related prisoners -- who're overwhelmingly disproportionately minorities -- Nader will probably be the first person to congratulate him.
yeah, it's not so graceful of way to get his point across, because the shock value is all that most people see, and don't even make their way to his actual point. He's challenging Obama to actually go through with fighting corporate power. Nader knows how to push buttons and piss people off. It worked. But instead of dwelling on your interpretation of the term 'Uncle Tom', think about the challenge Ralph is talking about, it's extremely valid and true. And if you don't know who he is, watch the documentary about him. http://www.anunreasonableman.com/ He has done more for our country than most politicians.
nader's comment was tactless, but rhetorically effective (specifically: he used antithesis to make his point.)
if you attack him for his comments, and don't address their content, you commit the argumentum ad hominem fallacy.
(now i have to catch the next starship back to Vulcan.)
Woah woah woah... okay here, lets review some things before we bash people.
I understand the racial slur social semantics here (simple checklist).
1. - He's white, therefore not black.
2. - He questioned whether Obama would be said "Uncle Tom."
3. - Since "Uncle Tom" is a pejorative (unrightfully so) and used as a noun, therefore the meaning and acceptance into everyday speech is varied and limited amongst groups, respectively: in this case, him not being black changes the meaning to instant negative.
4. - Definition: Most importantly, people are unaware of it's actual meaning and instead take the horribly negative euphemism for (politely put) "house slave." It's actual meaning was intended to be simply this:
"Uncle Tom is a pejorative for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures, **OR** as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation." (The OR is important!)
Also, "White American" authority figures is obviously the old term cooked up for this definition when the *only* people in-power were white... it is thankfully not like this today, so why bother analyzing current remarks as such? Change "White American" to "Corporate Power"... no need to change the "black person" as Obama is black, go figure. Calling Nadar a racist would be justified if he chose to specify his color by the definition of "Uncle Tom" because he believed that it was that reason he would swindle us, but he specifies doubt in his voting history, not his race at all.
In context with what Nader was saying, that the POSSIBILITY that Obama could cheat us over in the end and suck the corporate-cock (imagine it for a second, it is technically possible)... Now, it's 4 years in the future, we've been fucked and the Daily Show is running funnies of *real-footage* (see-above) of Nader referencing this exact circumstance with the near-perfect phrase to label him (by definition, not slur), while at the same time being witty to match it with Uncle Sam and knowledgeable in his quick question of possibilities, it causes a riot of laughter amongst the audience simply because it ended up being "the truth" (in this hypothetical scenario) and daily show essentially pulls a cheap joke... (this reality is nothing impossible, fyi).
Now, *no-one* wants any of this to happen, and to *Really* slam the label of racist on Nadar is ridiculous and more importantly irrational, I'm sorry... His education alone makes me confident to believe that he took the knowledge of the phrases true meaning for granted when speaking aloud, perhaps the people he was talking to in the recording were prefaced with the knowledge on the words origin or he knew that they knew... but *obviously* not everyone knows it's not intended to be racist.
Finally to wrap this up, I voted Obama, and believe Obama's modesty in living (compared to McCain's, geez) shows me trust in him behaving with large corporations... Nadar's comment is logically sound and a reminder that we shouldn't forget how much we *do trust* what we don't actually see, but perhaps inspired by too much paranoia (what did he see that I didn't is what I'm wondering).
Well, *that* was ugly.
anyone who voted for this asshole, this election or the last one, should not be allowed to reap any of the benefits obama will bring the country.
@34: You haven't been listening to what Baracks been saying this whole time, have you?
The windbag who gave us the airbag needs to bag it...he can go retire next door to McCain at the Redundant Old Politicians Home.
This whole discussion sounds like something off a conservative message board. Lets approach this a little more rationally people. This is obviously Fox News trying to sensationalize a logical statement and now we have The Stranger jumping on board with Fox News? A little depressing to see this stuff after such a great election with so much promise ahead....
A dick indeed.
Ironically, however, arguably we owe Obama's very election to Ralph Nader, without whom we would've avoided 8 years of W. What are the chances that Obama would have arisen during an Al Gore Presidency?
I was more disturbed by the FOX host hounding the race card than Nader's use of such a charged phrase. I don't think Nader was being racist at all. He was asking a valid question with a vivid example that would hopefully make people think about it. The host was practically foaming to pin Nader to the racial component and didn't address the content at all. He was so excited to have something that could be contorted into a racial slam said by a left candidate, like whoo-hoo, you made a racial slur first! "You want the words "Uncle Tom" to be your legacy?"
NO! Nader wants his legacy to be that to the very end he has challenged the powers-that-be to work for the little people instead of being a slave to outside interests.
Racism isn't dead just because we elected an African-American president, the road is longer than that. But Ralph Nader wasn't being a racist. We're so trigger happy with anything that might taste of racism that we throw the baby out with the bathwater. LISTEN to the question!!!!!!
I DON'T want a president who is in the pocket of corporations. I DO want a president who really helps poor people improve their lives. I was often struck in recent months by how often Obama mentioned "middle class" in policy points but didn't say "poor" or "lower" class as much.
I'm SO excited to join President Obama in creating the change we really need, and I hope everyone who is excited by this election rolls up their sleeves and helps out.
And I thank Ralph Nader for making the point that as great as Obama is, as much as he inspires us and gives us hope, we really have to rise up to demand the change we REALLY want to see - an end to corporate interests and power to the people who really need it.
Shame on FOX for sensationalizing the wrappings and not looking at the content. Of course, what would you expect from FOX. But silly you for being caught in the FOX race-baiting trap.
Go OBAMA! YES WE CAN!
@21, 24, 27: I agree completely. If any of you truly think that Ralph Nader is egoist and in this all for himself, watch An Unreasonable Man. Ralph Nader has done SO MUCH for this country. And if you read the article hyperlinked in my name, you will see that Obama has already made some pretty significant stands WITH the current administration. Will (can) he really bring change? Time will tell. But Nader is honest and truly wants the best for all Americans and that is why I voted for him.
I can't believe I voted for this motherfucker--twice--and actually sent him money in 2000.
It doesn't matter what substantive point Nader was trying to make, or that "Uncle Tom" has a connotation that in some contexts is non-racist. In the context he was using it, on the day he said it, it was an utterly classless bullshit insult that could only be interpreted in a racist context.
Fuck Ralph Nader.
@7
good god. im glad someone else noticed that his right eye blinks approximatley 5 times more often than his left eye.
i asked a friend who is big into the green party, and he thinks ralph has a lazy eye.
All the knee jerk reactions chastizing Nader are just as bad as knee jerk conservatives reactions to Obama. It's become so hip to shit on Nader and most of you that are doing it don't know a goddamn thing about him. The 2000 election argument is a fallacy. He 'took' votes away? How do you take someone's votes? A person can vote for whoever the fuck they want! Yes, some of the Nader votes would have gone for Gore had Nader not run, but he did run, and people chose him. Freedom of choice.
Listen and read to what he said in the instance. Put it in context. Everything has been said by 14, 21, 24, 27!, 29, 30, 37, 39.
If there's anything Obama stands for it's NOT knee jerk. It's thinking and nuance.
He has Bell's Palsy. www.bellspalsy.org
I'm glad to see everyone is still filled with a the spirit of healing and generosity today, the day after the election--it really shows in this discussion thread. I'm impressed!
nader has BALLS. he has done more for this country than probably any other living american.
ragging on him just shows your ignorance.
he made a powerful statement, and STUCK TO IT.
fuck you, paul constant, first for being so fucking short-sighted, and second for posting a fucking video from fox news.
like ralph said, this isn't fucking showbiz.
oh and brendan, now i found it. fuck you, too.
but all that aside, i still respect you guys, and it's a GREAT day! just wanted to call you out for being fucking stupid...
carry on...
Oh My Fucking Gawd.
Nader did not CALL Obama an "Uncle Tom"; he said that Obama has the choice between being "Uncle Sam" or "Uncle Tom".
He also said that he expects that Obama will be a great president. WHY do we have to get our collective panties in a wad over shit like this? (well, those of you who don't go commando)
If I say that I don't approve of the "N-word", that doesn't make me one of the assholes who USES the word.
Take a buspar and a valium and CHILL.
Oh, and who is the obnoxious aggressive-bottom wannabe who interviewed Nader?
That boy needs re-training.
Oh noes! Nader referenced Obama's blackness! That's so wrong.
But especially when white people do it.
Nader's sure to say what he said. Just google '"uncle tom" obama -nader'.
Of course, skin color doesn't matter; making democrats feel uneasy for not being further left does. You're most mad at him for pointing out all the things you kinda aren't thrilled about with Obama.
Look, Democrats didn't win this year because we managed to make America more liberal. Don't kid yourself. Just look at at that Prop 8, in one of the country's (supposedly) more liberal states. Or count the Blue Dogs in Congress now.
It's not like Nader used the N word. Although there is a synonymous term that starts with H and involves the N word.
It's easier to proclaim shock at the words someone uses than to consider the question they pose: Will Obama be for the people or for the corporations? Why is Obama not pro-single-payer? Why doesn't Obama talk about the poor? Etc?
Just pretend there wasn't a point in there, and just go OMGWTF instead -- it's FAR easier. Freepers do it all the time.
(Obligatory comment system grumble:
Grr, that should have been "Nader's sure not the first to say..." in the third graf, but I had such a bitch of a time getting through Stranger's ever-more-restrictive spam filter I got sloppy with the editing.)
For anybody who doubts the merit of the question that Nader poses about Obama's political intentions, which is all he was saying, I provide a link to an article with 16 reasons by an author from Chicago who has followed Obama's career for years:
Nader could have made the exact same point without using the term "Uncle Tom". Using such a term isn't "edgy" or "ballsy" or a "powerful statement" - it's just insensitive and inflammatory and smacks of racism. And in this case, Nader's attempt to call Obama to task was completely and understandably overshadowed by it, so what was the point? "This isn't showbiz?" He was on godammned Fox News - what the hell else did he think this is?
As for him being "cut off before he could explain" - he started to say something about the "historical use of the word", as if somehow everyone would then collectively go, "Ohhhh, now I get it - he was employing the *historical*, non-racist definition of an Uncle Tom, rather than modern, "blacks kowtowing to whites" definition. Whew!" He had a chance to put it in the proper context from the beginning of the interview (assuming that was possible) and he chose not to. He's either being a jerk or clueless.
*I get it* that he was trying make a point that potentially had nothing to do with race whatsoever. Despite that, he used an insulting term that's irrevocably racist, in reference to the first black American president in history, and let it stand. Why? You can argue "the point" he was trying to make all you want - I might even have agreed with it - but he poisoned the whole thing with an inexcusably insensitive phrase in an attempt to make some sort of clever analogy.
If you still disagree that his quote isn't racist (intentionally or otherwise), then by all means, present the Nader's "Choice of Uncles" question to everyone you meet who voted for Obama. I'm sure they'll focus on the context and intent of your argument, and not get all offended and stuff.
tact was never ralph's strongest point. as a matter of fact, he doesn't even like people, which is painfully obvious. would he have said that to an african-american reporter? or any african-american? and if so, what would their reaction be?
If he had said "does Obama want to serve the corporations or the people" there would have been zero press. Now we are talking about it. Nader clearly doesn't care what people think about him. He cares about getting the issue of corporate control discussed. If he could do it another way he would, but in our society this is pretty much the only option. My take on the point of the Obama revolution is that it's time to be adults now and actually listen to the substance of what people say, even people we may not like. It’s about growing up not calling people “Dicks". Come on Stranger, you can do it.
WTF, he needs to go the fuck away, and learn to keep his mouth shut.
Uncle Tom is not a racial slur.
Have any of you even read Uncle Tom's Cabin? I bet the VAST majority of you haven't read it or much of anything else for that matter. Well, go on and let an a-hole anchor at Fox News make fools of you all.
I think in the post-election excitement, Paul Constant is being a bit too rabid. I voted for Obama and support Obama, but I admire Nader. I don't think there's anything wrong with what he said. Too often we treat racism like a great finger pointing game (FOX and these comments) instead of looking at real people and real issues.
FACT: There are TON of poor black people in the country.
FACT: Obama, as president, COULD play a major role in helping these people out.
FACT: If he were to screw these poor people over, he could be considered an Uncle Tom.
It's a bit racially charged for a white person to call a black person an "Uncle Tom," but Nader wasn't name calling. He was merely suggesting what Obama's legacy could be.
chill the fuuuuck out
Whether or not you want to debate the historical meaning of Uncle Tom and where or not he was making a valid point....
...Ralph knew saying it would be controversial and he is a dick head and despite his past achievements....he can go fuck himself now.
I wonder if we had an Asian American President, if Nader would say something like, "A Chinaman's Chance"?