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Tuesday, November 11, 2008

Did Obamamania Pass Prop 8? (Cont.)

posted by on November 11 at 11:50 AM

The arguments, and the slicing and dicing of the exit poll data, continue. Today a a Sacramento Bee columnist weighs in:

Historically, black Californians have voted in about the same proportion as their population, in the 6 percent to 7 percent range, while Latinos, although more than a third of the state’s population, have been about 13 percent of voters.

Last week, however, 10 percent of voters were African American while 18 percent were Latino, and applying exit poll data to that extra turnout reveals that the pro-Obama surge among those two groups gave Proposition 8 an extra 500,000-plus votes, slightly more than the measure’s margin of victory.

To put it another way, had Obama not been so popular and had voter turnout been more traditional meaning the proportion of white voters had been higher chances are fairly strong that Proposition 8 would have failed.

Via Ben Smith.

RSS icon Comments


we've debunked this already eli. read the slog.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | November 11, 2008 11:49 AM

Um, isn't this the exact same thing Dan has been saying for the past week?

Posted by N | November 11, 2008 11:49 AM

Or in other words, where the hell did white voters go?

Posted by Greg | November 11, 2008 11:59 AM

or to put it another way, the minorities stepped up their presence at the polls, but white folks just sat on their asses as much as they always do. Maybe if whites had increased their turnout at the same rate as blacks and latinos prop 8 wouldn't have passed.

But hey, it's always someone else's fault.

Posted by cmaceachen | November 11, 2008 12:09 PM

The 10% black/18% hispanic voter figures were from the same debunked exit poll.

I've seriously never been so disappointed in Slog. I don't see how these posts could be motivated by anything but racism, since they clearly are anti-factual. I don't even think extreme laziness could be an excuse anymore. If I was Charles I'd be updating my resume.

Posted by jrrrl | November 11, 2008 12:11 PM

Chances are fairly strong that if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Posted by john cocktosin | November 11, 2008 12:16 PM

Eli - Prop 8 failed. Get over it. More precisely, understand the reasons why it failed, and go on to fight another day. Civil rights has experienced a setback, but the fight is never over. Blaming blacks for voting against the measure only highlights that there's more work to be done in the black community.

There are many reasons why this thing failed. Now's the time to go out there and correct them. Finger-pointing and race-baiting isn't going to solve anything.

Posted by David | November 11, 2008 12:18 PM


yeah, i'm pretty annoyed at all the blame blacks are getting as well. not that i supported prop. 8 or anything, but the loss was because of a campaign that wasn't run well enough to reach out to enough people (including the white majority, not just minorites) to get people to vote the way they wanted. demonizing minorities like this is not the way to make anyone sympathetic to your cause - i'm in your corner and want to send a hearty 'fuck you' to everyone blaming blacks, so good luck getting all those black californians to come around next time.

a shitty campaign was run and you lost. try again until it works. and eventually it will. blaming other minorities in the interim is not helping the cause.

Posted by donte | November 11, 2008 12:19 PM

@3, 4 oh snap! @5 in the newpaper biz the survival instinct is acting like a roofie on editorial inhibitions all over the world.

Posted by tomasyalba | November 11, 2008 12:19 PM

I saw this same info linked from Sullivan and thought, this is based on those exit polls. WTF? It still doesn't make sense to use this data.

The people of CA have spoken. We might not like it, but we need to figure out how to move forward. It's encouraging to see that people are actually fighting back and are being vocal. When these things happened to our mid-western brothers and sisters the numbers of glbt folks hurt were often terribly small compared to our coastal states with large urban areas.

When something similar passed in Michigan in 2004 the reaction of most Michigan gays afterwards (after anger, of course) was to just not rock the boat. It was sad. As a then-Michigan resident, let me say that the event barely registered for most coastal gays. The lessons one could have taken from that fight were apparently lost over the past 4 years as evidenced by the unfortunate campaign run by the No on 8 crowd. Sigh.

Posted by Balt-O-Matt | November 11, 2008 12:24 PM

5 and 8 are right on.

blaming other minority voters is inaccurate and does nothing for cause.

time to regroup and win even bigger next time.

just like we did after Kerry lost, now with our Obama win.

Posted by AK | November 11, 2008 12:32 PM

I heard charles found a noose on his desk the other day.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | November 11, 2008 12:33 PM

To borrow a phrase from digg:

"burried as repost"

Glad you could join the conversation though, Eli! Welcome! :D

Posted by stealingzen | November 11, 2008 12:34 PM

Why not tie this failure to the increase in young voters? The reality is, a matter of constitutional interpretation was, for some insane reason, left up to voters to decide, and the majority of them - mostly Caucasian and Hispanic - unfortunately chose to ban gay marriage.

CA is less than 10% black, but it's obviously 51% asshole. Time to move to the next step of the fight.

Posted by Dougsf | November 11, 2008 12:35 PM
chances are fairly strong that Proposition 8 would have failed

Completely false. All of the other articles I see about this exit polling say things like "blacks and latinos tipped the balance" which is a convenient way of glossing over the fact that whites were SPLIT on the issue.

Posted by w7ngman | November 11, 2008 12:35 PM

Chickens = 1
Gays = 0

Its just common knowledge that chickens are more important than gay people...

Posted by Womyn2me | November 11, 2008 12:36 PM

watch, all the gay writers (except dominic) are going to keep pushing this load of shit. and no matter how many time we rebuff them they are still gonna hold this racist grudge.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | November 11, 2008 12:37 PM

oooh oooh, can we bust out the "stupid fucking credulous hack" for stranger writers now? Dan, Eli...

Posted by Bellevue Ave | November 11, 2008 12:53 PM

Do you really want to make this about race? I mean, really?

Is unity just not your thing?

Posted by Sam Hill | November 11, 2008 12:56 PM

#18, we can, and should, and always have been able to.

Posted by w7ngman | November 11, 2008 1:02 PM

Yeah, these posts are getting Rovian bad—repeating a lie until it appears to be true.

Posted by joeyp | November 11, 2008 1:07 PM

The absolute only use for this info is in pointing out the serious need for the gay community to reach out to the black and latino communities. The ads put forth by the anti prop 8 folks SUCKED MAJOR ASS!!!!!! and there was nothing in them geared at the black or latino communitees. What the fuck, did Geoff Kors forget that black folks would vote in droves this election? Stupid stupid stupid, just admit it and stop putting the blame on these ignored communitees! We are to blame for letting this slip out of our grasp (for now).

Posted by Jersey | November 11, 2008 1:08 PM

The Weakly is homophobic and the Stranger is racist.

What the hell, Seattle? Aren't Concerned White Liberals(tm) supposed to put their blame on Bush and Republicans?

Posted by AJ | November 11, 2008 1:17 PM

I think Dougsf said it best @14:

"CA is less than 10% black, but it's obviously 51% asshole. Time to move to the next step of the fight."

Blacks are the easiest target, and you (and Dan) have locked in on them, with utter disregard for any of the other responsible parties. Is it because of intellectual laziness, or is there a hint of racism clouding your thinking? I can't figure it out.

Posted by Hernandez | November 11, 2008 1:20 PM

Thank Mormon Jesus that Nate Silver just put out an article debunking Eli and Dan.

He doesn't dig very deep into why the exit poll was completely unreflective of reality, or why even if the exit polls were accurate that changing the black voting rate to white levels wouldn't have caused Proposition 8 to fail. However, he still reaches the same conclusion that anyone who thought about this for more than 4 seconds would have reached: racial minorities didn't cause Prop 8 to pass.

Posted by jrrrl | November 11, 2008 1:25 PM

Apparently Eli Sanders supports exit poll data when it's convenient to blame the "other", but when it reflects poorly on his community, he's quick to dismiss.

Posted by DOUG. | November 11, 2008 1:28 PM

Credulous Hack

Posted by Bellevue Ave | November 11, 2008 1:34 PM

He's a propogandist at best. At least Savage has the excuse that he's a sex columnist, not a journalist.

Posted by hds | November 11, 2008 1:39 PM

It's funny because even if it was true (and it's not), you could blame a million factors for anti-gay marriage amendments passing almost everywhere consistently but now it's all the fault of those damn negroes.

I wonder how these people explain the anti-gay amendments in North and South Dakota, Montana, Kentucky, Idaho, Wisconsin and Nebraska. It probably makes their brains explode.

Posted by EmmiG | November 11, 2008 2:14 PM

@25-- I was just about to post the same thing from Nate at 538.

It's easy to take a look at one bit of information and extrapolate a simple but ultimately incorrect conclusion, but it's just tunnel vision.

And the "election of black, progressive president causes ironic anti-progressive initiative to pass" story sure is a fun angle, 'cause we all love good irony, but it's simply not true.

Thank God we have actual smart people like Nate Silver looking at this stuff and making actual sense of it.

Posted by Ollie | November 11, 2008 2:26 PM

@29 To answer your question

Under cover of night, Negroes sneak into these different states when some hateful anti gay piece of shit is on the ballot, then we inhabit the bodies of the white people, taking special care to inhabit only the bodies of registered voters. (This is a trick we learn at secret voodoo seminars offered in Haiti and by the Nigerian Anglican church.) Then we vote to pass the hateful legislation. I'm telling you this because you seem cool. Please don't spread it around or I might get in trouble with the Council on Black Homophobia.

Posted by HDS | November 11, 2008 3:57 PM

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