Gropecon 08

Some of the most arrogant assholes I know are poly!

And before someone posts on here about how he or she is "poly" and we need to be more open-minded, I don't care how many people you fuck. I care that you feel the need to brag about it. It's annoying when it's done by a frat boy drunk on PBR and Jaeger bombs and it's annoying when it's a stuck up "poly" jackass.

Only Super Sluts would invent a fancy name for indiscriminate buggery.

Polyamory is the OCD of sex.

@2: I'm poly, and I agree with you. Arrogant poly jackasses are right up there in annoyance level with dominant jackasses with self-appointed titles like "Lord" or "Mistress" who act like this gives them permission to top everyone they meet.

That said, there are a few of us who manage to do what we do without trumpeting it to the world or rubbing others' noses in it.

multi-gender activity is in bold? That's hell on earth?

I would think hell on earth would have a lot more killing and a lot less cuddling. I don't see a problem here.

@5:

I'm sure there are, but you're not one of them. Case in point.

Phew! Did a Republican just fart some kind of rant about gays or something?

#7 has invented an airtight form of argument, wherein anyone who disagrees is "bragging."

@9:

Actually, you could disagree without noting your own sexuality. I didn't say anything about my own sexuality in my post.

That said, I thought #5's post was a pretty decent one, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to be a cock to a stranger.

"I couldn't pass up the opportunity to be a cock to a stranger." - Because, you know, there aren't enough decent reasons to be a jackass in the world without picking pointless fights under the guise of anonymity.

There is a "Super Massive Cuddle Party" every morning on the R train in from Queens.

Yea, sure. Do something like go with dog poop on your shoe and see how many hugs you get.

Cuddle parties make me think of emotionally abused women and emotionally stunted men. The only thing they reframing in my mind is the scope of people in NYC willing to engage in non sexual touching.

I see "cuddle parties" advertised all the time. They always seem vaguely creepy.

Oh, poly people. You're so kinda marginalized.

Am I the only one that's shocked the Poly Pride Parade isn't being hosted here in Seattle?

I was there. It was fun. You can read about it on my blog. http://thesexgeek.blogspot.com

@Dawgson: there's a great poly community here in Seattle and it would be a great place to have an event like this. How about starting one?

@dan: (and @everyone else for that matter): some of the most arrogant assholes I know are also gay, straight, monogamous and poly as well. It isn't that I like to brag about how I fuck, rather I just don't like being told how I should by everyone else.

I went to NYC for that weekend, def enjoyed it:
http://misspolyamory.blogspot.com/

This commentary on the Poly Pride cuddle party and reference to FORMER youth pastor Diana Adams is so far off base I can't even begin to address it here, so I've posted to my own blog on it where I can correct the misinformation being spread about - sloppier journalism I've never seen.

http://practicalpolyamory.blogspot.com/2008/10/dan-savage-slams-poly-pride-event.html

sorry dan, and the rest of you cantankerous snarky people, y'all are fuckin up.

Dan Savage, you're full of santorum.
I'm Diana Adams, the former youth minister you shudder to avoid, and Vice-President of Polyamorous NYC. I helped plan Poly Pride weekend with other leaders of Poly NYC. Poly isn't right for a lot of people (and requires lots of effort and communication), and neither is Poly Pride weekend. And I often appreciate your advice as open-minded and reasonable to polyamory, kinky folks, and queers. But this time, you're 99% misanthropic snark and 1% information. Your only knowledge of our "hell on earth" weekend seems to be second hand from one other article, without even checking our website www.poly-nyc.com for accuracy or speaking to anyone who attended.
To clear it up:
-The Cuddle Party was one event of the weekend, and a wonderful way to be in a comfortable nonsexual space. (The description "multigender" did not come from us, but, sure, it's an event where all genders are welcome. No one will twist your arm to reframe assumptions about men and women if you're not inclined -but since when are you trying to be a He Man stereotype?) You can make fun of the warm fuzziness of it all, but Cuddle Parties have swept the world as a leading workshop on boundaries and dammit, a warm fuzzy nice time.
-That wasn't in Central Park (another error), but we did hold a main event rally on the Central Park Great Lawn with sexuality and relationship leaders from around the country (like Tristan Taormino) and fun performers (like Houston Bernard). We had a slamming afterparty with 300 people, and a bookreading with major authors at Bluestockings to round out the weekend. It was the largest, grandest, most organized Poly Pride weekend ever, we got press in the NY Times, NY Post, Village Voice and more, and hundreds of folks reported having a fantastic inspiring time. Not bad for hell on earth.
-Yes, I grew up a religious Christian and felt a deeper calling as an activist for sexual freedom and relationship choices. If I'm preaching about anything now, it's against shame and fear as motivators of sexual and relationship behavior, and in favor of honesty and awareness of relationship alternatives. I am an attorney representing clients in child custody cases in New York State whose sexuality has become a factor in their case. I'm fighting a similar fight to you, but from the trenches not an armchair, so... a little more respect is deserved, man! And if not, I challenge you as Poly Woman to a friendly relationship-advice-off, or arm wrestling, or both.
Passionately, Diana Adams, Esq. Vice-President of Polyamorous NYC
www.poly-nyc.com
www.feministoutlaw.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/fashion/05polyamory.html?scp=1&sq=polyamory&st=cse

wow!! and straight, monogamous people arent
or don't have the capability of being arrogant assholes? I know that they are because I work with some of them!! I am surprised at the level of judgment there is in the comments as well as the actual post from people who didn't even go to the event and who at best are making an assumption based on what they think they know about it or heard about it from 'somewhere'.

Considering the level of stereotypes that the homosexual community has gone through via film, television, and mainstream media I would have expected a bit more openmindedness towards people who are trying to live a lifestyle that is honest, and communicative instead of being shady, "on the DL" or any other term people use to describe their version of polyamory which usually means cheating. Unless of course you are just trying to be confrontational to generate comments.

These are great events with great people! Don't knock it until you have tried it!

Wow sis... You're amazing!

Dan
I wouldn't say that this is an IT place to find business partners, but as a poly male, who serves on the board of more then one major start up, and works for the #1 company in America, I would say you could do worse then me.

#2 All of the most arrogant assholes I know are people. I don't rally against them as a group. When I say I'm poly I'm not bragging about how much sex I have, which is very little outside my primary relationship, I'm just saying, and usually in settings where I am trying to explain that I'm no a cheating asshole to friends and co workers who know I live with my girlfriend, but just saw me try and get a number. Just as when someone says that they are in a monogamous relationship, hopefully they aren't doing it to let the world know how righteous and better they are then everyone else, they are usually just letting someone know politely that they are off the market.

#3 First, and foremost Poly has nothing to do with being indiscriminate. If fact if anything my play mates now not only have to pass my discrimination, but often my partners as well, and as I am generally sexually satiated it takes more then just a chance to turn to my head. Second "Super Slut"? Really?

Hookah Mike

It's obvious the Dan and his Ilk are jealous losers who have issues with intimacy and who aren't getting much "Amory" these days. Why else would they be willing to ignorantly piss on the parade of those who aren't afraid to "Love Many", "Out in the Open", without even checking the facts! God forbid adults might want to actually cuddle, sleep around, or engage in consensual adult sexual behavior with more than one partner... without having to lie about it... blasphemy!

The only real difference I see between Polys and the rest of the herd is that Poly people don't feel the need to be decietful about their promiscuous tendencies, where as all the "good straight folk" in mono-cult land are kidding themselves and each other, keeping their occasional extra relational affairs on the QT, all for the sake of conforming to the mainstream ideal of "normalcy" called monogamy.

Boooooring!

~jj

I say you should take ol' Diana up on her arm-wrestling challenge. It couldn't hurt, right?

As I see it, you and Ms. Adams are on (sort of) the same side. Why create contention and disdain? It's a lot easier to criticize than it is to find a common ground.

Gotta say Dan, this seems a little snarky for you. I've heard _you_ talking about stuff that frankly, I thought was a little creepy, but because you're you, I said to myself, Ian baby, this is your problem, not his.

You should think about doing the same. Otherwise some of us might think you were, well, a hypocrite. (e.g. My kink is special and everybody needs to just deal with it, but %^&$ your kink...)

Hey! I'm posting on Dan Savage's blog. Go me!

Seriously, Dan - you've been an alt idol for many people for a long time, and I've always enjoyed the read. But you're off-base on this one.

Polyamory simply recognizes that there are alternatives to monogamy, and encourages people to explore what works for them without feeling like they have to conform to conservative societal norms in order to be happy. I've also been to a Cuddle Party, which is separate from poly proper, and was amazed how comfortable, non-sexual, and non-creepy it was, for all concerned. Pretty much the only people who bash it are people who haven't seriously researched or experienced it.

Lots I'd like to write here but in the interest of brevity all I'll say is I'm so glad I met other people through PolyNYC who share my views on something so important as freedom in defining personal relationships - and I'd put 3:2 odds on Diana to win the wrestling match. (She's a friend of mine, and she kicks ass!)

Ok, so you're poly! We get it! It's like, you're preaching to the converted here in NYC! Though I DO love that there are groups, workshops, events, etc. readily accessibile to those seeking it. That IS very cool. But I can't escape the feeling that sometimes poly agenda is being PUSHED on us? We're not in the bible belt. Poly groups need to check their attention whore tendencies! I, personally, (female) have had several nice, open communicative experiences where I've had a primary partner (male) and then from whatever random circumstances we've wound up having 3 ways, and short term/long term girlfiends. It's certainly nothing I felt I had to hide, but I actually get a certain pleasure in discretion. It's like, my loves are special and sacred no matter how many, how few, and somehow putting it out there to ANYONE and re-analyzing it over and over, ruins some of the magic for me! Am I old-fashioned on this? And lastly for whatever reason, some people have NO romantic love in their lives. Whatever the reason, be they handicapped, metally impaired, etc. I am always conscious of how many lonely people there are out there, and let's praise goddess for polyamory, but also pray for the lonely souls! :(
Also, very well said, commenter JJ.
Plus We should not condone cowardly cheaters. Stop being so shady, come clean and communicate!

Shouldn't you be ragging on those who are actually screwing up the world instead of those who are improving it?

Dan - you went to a Catholic seminary high school, so I'm guessing you probably put in a good amount of time on your knees as an altar boy. I don't see anyone holding your former flirtations with organized religion against your current cocksucking ways.

Dan, I don't know why the (former) youth minister thing should be so off-putting. The most sexually healthy people I know have a strong connection between their sexuality and their spirituality. One of the greatest things about the Poly movement is that you have a chance to connect with people and realize what you have in common (beyond carnal appetites). This movement could easily become sleezy and superficial if not for the diligent and thoughtful work of people like Diana. My wife and I are new to the NYC Poly scene and were very apprehensive (I am in training to be an Episcopal minister). Diana has helped to build a community where people don't have to feel that open sexuality and devout spirituality are at odds--and thank God for it! There is a great need for voices from within the church (whatever church it may be) to call for more personal freedom and acceptance regardless of who or how you choose to love.

I wonder if you remember what it's like to feel misunderstood or easily judged for who you are or what you believe in, Dan?

As a Dallas-based poly (and bi male) person, it gives me hope to see a celebration of the ideals of intimate openness and honesty. Where I live we don't have celebrations, social groups, or even internet based discussion forums. Just shady swinger clubs and second-rate dating sites.

It's amazing to me that you, a proponent for so many things kink-friendly that appeal to persons of many genders and orientations, would take an opportunity to shit on something like this.

I guess it was a slow news day.

-Sean

Responding to post #2 above: reducing poly pride to "bragging" is uncomfortably akin to homophobic arguments against uncloseted gays, ie, why must they rub our nose in it? What they do in their private life is their business -- the homophobe says, patting himself on the shoulder for his open-mindedness -- but to force the discussion on society as a whole is so *shameless*.

i love how Diana enlisted all her friends to stick up for her as she yet again plays the victim. pathetic.

Dan, live and let live. love and let love. there are many ways of being in a loving trusting relationship. no need to trash someone else's choices just because you don't agree.

I'm a breeder boy who loves a little polyamory when I can manage it, and I've personally met and talked with both Dan Savage and Diana Adams. Dan cracked me up, and Diana made me puke, both aesthetically and socially.

I just want to juggle and bang women, and I feel no desire to publicize it, nor make some preaching-to-the-choir movement about it. In fact, the more I keep my activities hidden, the more women I can juggle. Thanks, Dan, for always writing funny and interesting shit, but unfortunately, a goofy publicity army has been stirred by your condemnation, and more polyamarists will be talking about doing it rather than just doing it. I say more sex, less blah blah blah!

Wow, Vin -- is it all the women-juggling that gives you such a sweet disposition?

One thing I like about polyamorists is they generally work pretty hard at communicating like adults, which not coincidentally includes the ability to disagree civilly.

dan savage can eat my polyamorous shit. i love you diana.