Slog - Comments on And the Snap Polls Say...

Comment by Scott in Chi-Town

Scott in Chi-Town — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:12:26 -0800

20 days and counting until Sarah Palin becomes a footnote!

Comment by Julie in Chicago

Julie in Chicago — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:12:57 -0800

That's a higher margin than the last debate, which was, I believe Obama by 24 in the CNN poll.

Comment by Catalina Vel-DuRay

Catalina Vel-DuRay — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:14:21 -0800

We're very pleased with the performance and the polls this evening.

Comment by Niro DeRobert

Niro DeRobert — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:14:51 -0800

The roomful of Fox's undecided voters:

A majority said Obama won the debate.

Four said they had gone from undecided to voting for Obama.

Zero said they had gone from undecided to voting for McCain.

This is on Fox.

Fox.

Comment by Julie in Chicago

Julie in Chicago — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:15:44 -0800

CNN also says that the splits were as follows for Obama/McCain:

66% / 25% - who expressed their views more clearly
7% / 80% - who attacked their opponent more
56% / 39% - who was the stronger leader
70% / 22% - who was more likable

But, then they just admitted that their sample was skewed towards Democrats. So... not sure how valuable these numbers are.

Comment by Andy James

Andy James — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:29:49 -0800

#5: The national sample is tilted towards Democrats.

Obama has a remarkable power to lose from moment to moment and win the whole thing. It's a microcosm of the whole campaign, with McCain obsessed with owning each daily news cycle and Obama drawing back to win the campaign. God-damn, I'm glad Obama's on our side. My awe for the man grows.

Comment by PC

PC — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:31:57 -0800

1. Obama doing very good as debater now.
2. McCain not.
3. Staying on eco. message. Ayup, that's the ticket.
4. His demeanor is workign very well, too.
5. He'll need all that, our support, and more, to get everything passed.
6. I really dig his eco. messaging and hey that article in the Sunday NY Times mag is right on when it says he's really really trying to reach all those crackers and theirony is his feelings are the exact oppostie of what his bittergate quote suggests, ie, he thinks we should not mock all those mulletheads in trailer parks who love guns, etc. The way urbane folks tend to mock them.

My man Obama.

Unity all y'all urbane folks--

Comment by Balt-O-Matt

Balt-O-Matt — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:33:57 -0800

Apparently McCain's favorability went DOWN by 3 or 4 points to 49 in one focus group. Ouch.

Comment by DOUG.

DOUG. — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:34:21 -0800

Fucking liberal media.

Comment by i have a medium penis

i have a medium penis — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:46:33 -0800

you know, this is almost too good to be true... and when it seems like that, it probably is.

the pessimist in me is looking at this whole 2008 presidential race in a strange way: that those in the know with the republican party have hoisted two dolts up there, who can't possibly win, in order to get back 8 more years starting in 2012.

my reasoning is as follows: everything is in the shitter at this point, and it seems as though it hasn't even been flushed, meaning that the neocons know the jig is up, and that it's going to get a lot worse... but they're only willing to give up a little of their time and, more importantly, their money. by letting the "dems" get one term in, they now have a great new scapegoat for all of the much, much worse shit that's about to go down, and they can come in to "save the day" in the next election.

but that's just the pessimist in me.

the optimist in me said "fuckin' a, obama's in there" and went to take a nap about a month ago...

Comment by i have a medium penis

i have a medium penis — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:46:59 -0800

you know, this is almost too good to be true... and when it seems like that, it probably is.

but that's just the pessimist in me.

the optimist in me said "fuckin' a, obama's in there" and went to take a nap about a month ago...

Comment by i have a medium penis

i have a medium penis — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:48:38 -0800

fuck, sorry for the DP

Comment by keshmeshi

keshmeshi — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:50:23 -0800

@10,

If that's true, the neocons' memory is too short to remember FDR. FDR was so popular the Republicans pretty much adopted his platform in the late '30s, the only notable exception being their opposition to American involvement in WWII.

Comment by elenchos

elenchos — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:53:29 -0800

God, I hope Sarah Palin doesn't become a footnote. I love this woman. She's been a godsend, and I will eternally be grateful to her that she has sacrificed so much to put Barack Obama in the White House. She passed up FIVE opportunities for a good education, she skipped a lifetime of chances to travel overseas. She could have grown as a human being, she could have tried to understand other religions. She could have carried out the office of mayor with integrity. She could have governed Alaska with honor. She could have done all these things, but she didn't. Why?

I can't think of one good reason why anybody would choose to live their life this mean and despicable way. Unless it was a choice to make a lifetime of sacrifices to make sure America gets the change it needs.

As a reward after November, she should get her own reality show. She's earned it.

Comment by yucca flower

yucca flower — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:58:06 -0800

@ elenchos,

No, give her what she really, really wants...Katie Couric's job. That is Palin's real dream job.

Comment by toasterhedgehog

toasterhedgehog — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:10:20 -0800

Has the Bush administration been like a scorching case of chicken pox that has made most of us immune to their tactics?

McCain's plans seem to be built around short buzzwords like '$5000 tax credit'. We're meant to say:

'ooooh, $5000 is a lot of money. I like large sums of money. I'll vote for McCain.'

His attacks are built around seeming as outrageous as possible.

Neither his plans or his attacks are gaining him any points in the polls. If we've gained anything from the Bush Whitehouse, it would be nice if were an immunity to outrageous lies and fuzzy policy.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:17:38 -0800

To be honest neither candidate has said much of anything serious or substantive in any of the debates, which is in line with every other debate in the history of the format. I mean, get real: if McCain wins, and gets a solid majority in the Senate and the House (bear with me for the sake of argument here), he's not going to get 40 nuke plants. Not if he serves two terms. He knows it, you and I know it, the undecided voters know it.

Similarly, Obama's not going to get any serious movement on health care or education unless the economy completely turns around (and he gets 60 senators). Sorry, but that's reality in Washington.

Comment by kerri harrop

kerri harrop — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:18:01 -0800

Obama did a hell of a job tonight, and his calm and rational demeanor throughout will be a huge point. Things are looking real solid.

Now is time to keep the heat on. Volunteer, donate, and help make this shit happen. It is go time.

Comment by whatwhat

whatwhat — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:21:19 -0800

Snap polls really fuck with the pundits because they wanted to give it to McCain but the people prevented them from driving their preferred narrative.

Comment by Jim Demetre

Jim Demetre — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:21:47 -0800

McCain is straight out of 1987 with his anti-government, free market, "class-warfare" rhetoric. It's like he's been in a coma the last twenty years.

Comment by daniel

daniel — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:25:16 -0800

What is the deal with Rossi calling Gregoire "the incumbent"?

Comment by Sean

Sean — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:27:04 -0800

Most interesting thing about the debate? Obama shows his sarcastic side.

http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/final-debate-mccains-deer-headlight-l

Note the expression on his face as he says "I'm happy to talk to you, Joe, too,..."

Comment by Sean

Sean — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:32:16 -0800

@17 Why so churlish, Fnarf? If Obama wins, the entire world will be dancing in the streets. Isn't that enough?

Comment by elenchos

elenchos — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:37:40 -0800

I have to say, as our economy collapses, I don't see how we can continue to afford the most expensive health care system on Earth. We spend more on health care than any other rich country. It seems to me that universal health care is the only thing we will have enough left to pay for after all our assets have evaporated.

I suspect that things will get so bad that Obama will have no choice but to move all the way to a single payer system that eliminates the insurance companies entirely and perhaps even makes all health care workers government employees. We're just not rich enough any more for the alternative.

Comment by Jenny

Jenny — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:45:13 -0800

OMG - the "caption contest" pic at Daily Kos! I can't stop laughing ...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/15/232228/81/666/631918

Comment by Jenny

Jenny — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:46:30 -0800

And this one!!! What the????

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/0301/2828/649/631935

Comment by toasterhedgehog

toasterhedgehog — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:46:53 -0800

@17 Look how much Washington and our country changed as a result of the policies of a Republican majority. I think it's possible that under strong leadership, the Democrats can become at least as effective at rebuilding this country as the Republicans have been at dismantling it.

Comment by Yay!

Yay! — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:00:20 -0800

Leanne won Leanne won!!!!!!!!!!!! I never thought it would actually happen! I'm ecstatic!

Comment by Mike in Renton

Mike in Renton — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:07:31 -0800

@20 Was it just me or was he going a lot further back than that? It sounded like he was talking about segregation or something during the school questions.

Comment by kinaidos

kinaidos — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:10:34 -0800

Overall Christopher Buckley pegged it a week ago. Obama demonstrates a first class temprament. It's hard to pin down, but it's a combination of respect, confidence, guarded openness, and intelligence.

The last presidential candidate who's public demeanor projected that sort of gestalt was JFK.

Maybe Obama will pick up were JFK left off?

Finally, had JFK not been Catholic, would he have stuck with Diem? Even so had he lived, would he have continued down the silly cold-war road LBJ did? All that is important becuase Obama is similarly conciliatory toward the hawks, and even a bit hawkish himself when it comes to the relatively insignificant threat posed by al-qaida.

Comment by violet_dagrinder

violet_dagrinder — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:10:43 -0800

@28

OMG! You suck soooo bad! Dammit!

Comment by Gordon Werner

Gordon Werner — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:46:36 -0800

When Obama speaks ... he speaks of hope, of personal responsibility and a brighter future.

When McCain speaks (or Palin for that matter) all I hear is anger and fear.

That is why, more than anything else, Obama will win this election.

The point I thought was oddest in this debate was that McCain was so caught up in his negative rhetoric ... even after Obama carefully explained Ayers and ACORN ... McCain immediately replied that he didn't explain Ayers and ACORN.

Hello!

Comment by El

El — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:55:17 -0800

The user poll on the Fox News site, which presumably skews conservative, has Obama at 64% and John McCain at 36%. Wierd shit, eh?

Comment by daniel

daniel — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:56:42 -0800

Honestly I just ignored it, I figured it was referring to something I was unaware of. But if McCain really doesn't know the difference between autism and Down's syndrome he's going to lose some of that special needs family vote.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:39:51 -0800

@23, don't mistake me. I'm not churlish about Obama the candidate, only about debates as a way to get to know candidates. I'll be dancing in the streets with the rest of the world, that's for sure. But pretty much zero percent of his administration will connect with anything he said in the debates, except for the Supreme Court nomination business. It's always been that way.

I do think that Obama is almost as unrealistic as McCain on the topic of the national debt and the deficit.

On the subject of health care, nobody in either party is singing a tune much I care for. I don't think health care has, or should have, fuck-all to do with employment. It's a historical accident that it does now, and our economy would be stronger if companies didn't provide ANY health care to their employees, as is the case in the rest of the civilized world. And even Obama's health care talk revolves around increasing access to the bureacracy, when it is the existence of the bureaucracy that makes our health care so expensive in the first place. All the money goes to actuaries in suits, not doctors and nurses.

But I think it will take a disaster, not unlike the current financial disaster, to effect a change. Something like a bird flu epidemic with ten million dead. Anything less, and we will just keep talking about the same old "socialism" versus "choice" bullshit.

Fact: if you compare the content of the debates with ANY serious substantive discussion of the issues, in or out of the campaigns, right or left, you'll see there's no relationship between the two. And promises are like dust.

Comment by Karlheinz Arschbomber

Karlheinz Arschbomber — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:53:37 -0800

Goddamn it, Fnarf, why the fuck do you always have to be right? It is feudal subjugation, that health care is directly tied to employment. And don't even get started on that bullshit called "preexisting condition". This is almost as bad as the destruction of the constitutional protections which have been erased over the past few years.

Comment by Julie in Chicago

Julie in Chicago — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:18:01 -0800

@28. Normally I don't whine about spoilers, but for fuck's sake. Project Runway was on at the same time as the debate in Chicago, so I was planning on watching it tonight. Why the fuck would you post that in a thread on the debates?

Comment by lostboy

lostboy — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:08:29 -0800

kinaidos @30:

the relatively insignificant threat posed by al-qaida

Words fail me.

Comment by Seajay

Seajay — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:48:00 -0800

"It is feudal subjugation, that health care is directly tied to employment."

True. And it's absolute monarchy if it's a single-payer system. You might curse and grumble at the inefficiency of your local bureaucrat, but, as with Russian peasants of yore, you can alway hope in the Czar, far away in the capital. 'They will fix it--they will pass a law--next year ... next year!'

The best healthcare plan for anyone is to take care of themselves.

BTW the debate last night definitely settled it. I'm voting for Bob Schieffer.

Comment by KatieDewi

KatieDewi — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:16:55 -0800

I'm totally with Julie in Chicago. I thought I was safe on this thread. Death to #28!