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Monday, September 15, 2008

What To Do About WaMu? A Slog Poll.

posted by on September 15 at 10:27 AM

But first, a disclaimer: Financial advice handed out by Stranger writers is probably, by definition, questionable. As for the collective wisdom of our readers—well, their collective wisdom has left certain esteemed opinion leaders very unimpressed over the years.

Still, Jonathan Golob, who may—may—be more reliable than most of us when it comes to math and finance, says that Seattle-based Washington Mutual is on the brink of failing.

He’s not alone.

Just about everyone I know has an account at WaMu, and in the last few days I’ve had a bunch of eerie conversations in which people I know have related their various plans for dealing with—or ignoring—a WaMu collapse. None of us are over the limit for getting FDIC insurance. (Meaning none of us has over $100K in deposits.) But certain of us are still thinking it might be a good time to move some of our meager funds elsewhere.

But, too, certain of us also wonder if we’re being silly and paranoid. So, for the financially-semi-literate, the group-thinkers, and the people like me and my friends, a poll:

What are you doing about your WaMu account?

RSS icon Comments

1

I am going to spend every last dime and when McCain wins in November blow my brains out in front of the Stranger offices!

Party like we have nothing to live for. 'cause with McCain/Palin we won't!

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | September 15, 2008 10:35 AM
2

I'll stay put and hope they fail and take my $6,000 credit card debt with them.

Posted by elswinger | September 15, 2008 10:38 AM
3

Here in SF they have like 5 ATM machines in the whole city, and seem to be behind technology wise with BOFA and Wells Fargo. Just another reason to switch.

Posted by hal | September 15, 2008 10:40 AM
4

As pointed out several times in the comments from Golob's screed promoting fear, uncertainty, and doubt, his "numbers" are wrong. He is making the assumption that the entire WaMu loan portfolio are bad mortgages. That is incorrect. Only about 16 billion of that portfolio are the scary, default-high loans that may be worth only .20 on the dollar. But go ahead, panic, Democrats are really good at irrational FUD.

Posted by *sigh* No more FUD please | September 15, 2008 10:40 AM
5

Thankfully, most of my money is in a nice sturdy Canadian institution, TD Canada Trust. I do still use my WaMu account, though, and don't plan to close it.

Btw, you don't have to take Golob's word for it. After Lehman Bros, WaMu has been tapped as the next to fail by experts everywhere.

Posted by Gabriel | September 15, 2008 10:43 AM
6

ING DIRECT. They're about the only US bank that isn't hurting from the mortgage crisis.

Posted by Carollani | September 15, 2008 10:44 AM
7

@4: The entire loan portfolio may not be bad, but they're in a weak position and the sharks are circling.

But go ahead! Shove your head in the sand. Be my guest. Hope that you don't have more than $100,000 in your account, though.

Posted by demo kid | September 15, 2008 10:45 AM
8

@6: Wrong. They're Dutch.

Posted by demo kid | September 15, 2008 10:51 AM
9

Since your money is FDIC-insured, you're better of just letting your money sit and see what happens. Even if the federal government takes over WaMu at some point in the future when/if it fails, people's accounts will continue to operate as normal (the bank may be closed for a day or two, but checks will clear, debit cards will still work, etc.). Probably WaMu, if it fails, will end up as a part of Bank of America or some other behemoth, and your account will simply be moved there intact. You can go to the hassle of moving everything yourself (and changing direct deposit arrangements, automatic payment orders, etc.) to the new account, or you can sit tight and let WaMu and its eventual buyer handle everything for you.

There is NO reason to move your money.

What people should be focusing on is getting Democrats back in power in Washington to clean up the Republican "deregulatory mess" that led to the mortgage/credit crisis in the first place.

Posted by Simac | September 15, 2008 10:52 AM
10

This post is clearly designed to cause a run on the bank. WHY?

Posted by Fnarf | September 15, 2008 10:55 AM
11

I just feel sorry for their customer service people who will be having to answer to the uninformed public - asking about the stock marketses crashing zomg!

Posted by Non | September 15, 2008 10:59 AM
12

Sarah Palin can see a WaMu branch from the Dunkin' Donuts near her Anchorage office. That's all the experience we need to fix this mess. I'm votin' Palin for Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Posted by Gurldoggie | September 15, 2008 10:59 AM
13

We're still debating. On one hand, no, I don't think we'll lose our money, per se, but it certainly could be tied up if everything goes tits up.

I'm also half tempted to switch our savings to Wamu CD's (they've got pretty good rates right now, naturally). But that doesn't help with my concerns about the accessibilty of funds if everthing goes tits up.

Most likely we're gonna put the savings back into ING and leave our checking and credit line with Wamu, but at the bare minimum to cover bills and such.

I have no idea if we're being smart, or if we're just part of the problem.

Posted by Karla | September 15, 2008 11:01 AM
14

Despite it being a pain in the ass to withdraw money as they only have two ATMs in my vicinity in Queen Anne and downtown, I am so glad I'm banking at Homestreet. Annoying inconvenience has never looked so good.

Posted by keshmeshi | September 15, 2008 11:02 AM
15

because they can. why should i continue to let my money be used by this boatload of incompetence?

they can't even get the search function to work for the online banking to look for old credit and debits. (ever since i have the online banking with them it's been this way. I write them once every few months and they tell me they are aware of it and still working on it.)

so i think i'm off to open an account with BECU so all my money doesn;t get tied up in this current situation.

call it keeping my options open.

Posted by beef | September 15, 2008 11:05 AM
16

You WaMu customers should seriously consider pulling your money out now. Here's why:
1) WaMu is almost certainly going to fail. The handwriting is on the wall, folks.
2) While FDIC will ensure that you won't lose your money, you will be faced with the hassle of claiming it. There may be long lines, paperwork, other annoyances that come with dealing with the Feds. That's in addition to the hassles involved in setting up new accounts and a new bank.

I lived through my bank's closure back during the S&L crises. My money survived, but the experience sucked. So my advice is avoid the extra hassle and open those new accounts now.

Posted by Providence | September 15, 2008 11:08 AM
17

Quit your pathetic whining. WaMu will be scarfed up by JP Morgan Chase within a week.

Posted by Toe Tag | September 15, 2008 11:10 AM
18

no comment because I work there

Posted by CommonKnowledge | September 15, 2008 11:10 AM
19

The WAMU bank run began a long long time ago on the macro level: financial news has been full of accurate, timely stories of ratings agencies downgrading WAMU's debt and institutional investors dumping shares and declining to offer them desperately needed capital infusions and default rates skyrocketing on WAMU's specialty mortgage, the Alt-A. All the signs have been there of an S&L that's no longer able to function and unlikely to regain its footing. However, individual depositors are really surprised by today's news.

Putting up a "man-on-the-street" Slog post seems like a good way to serve puzzled depositors/readers as best you can.

Posted by tomasyalba | September 15, 2008 11:10 AM
20

no, I wont be leaving for 2 reasons;

1. When the hammer falls or JP Morgan absorbs them I will have to switch over 15 odd accounts that have direct ties to the checking.

2. I don't have any savings with them, only checking.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | September 15, 2008 11:12 AM
21

@19

Two thumbs up.

This is way overdue. The longer people remain with their heads in the sand and their bank accounts (and 401Ks) in harms way, the easier it is for the pigmen to relieve them of their money.

Again, unless you like dealing with federal institutions, think about finding a small and stable place to keep your money. Your family will thank you.

Posted by Pondscum | September 15, 2008 11:14 AM
22

I left WaMu years ago when they decided to start buying crappy mortgages in California, to put bulletproof glass in their branches, and to screw me over at every available possibility. At that point, why not just go to Bank of America? At least they'll still be around next month. (probably.)

I use ING Direct for all my US-dollar stuff now.

Posted by Cow | September 15, 2008 11:17 AM
23

I also think the hypocrisy of condemning the herd mentality in investing and speculation while also subscribing to it with your own money is a bit glaring.

On the one hand you'll condemn a bunch of guys in NYC and Chicago for following the herd into Oil, Gold, Corn, CDOs (and this is their livlihood, their money in a very real way) but you absolve yourselves the same scrutiny when you take actions that could lead to the collapse of a bank.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | September 15, 2008 11:17 AM
24

Providence is about right. The FDIC guarantee is solid, but it will be a pain to go through their procedures, as IndyMac customers can attest. Almost certainly, WaMu won't survive as an independent bank, but it might well be acquired instead of simply failing.

Elswinger, I hope you know that your credit card debt won't disappear with WaMu. A bankruptcy trustee will be quite eager to collect all debts owed to the defaulter.

Posted by David Wright | September 15, 2008 11:20 AM
25

I'm hedging. I'm keeping my WaMu small business account, but my wife and I are no longer considering switching our personal accounts to WaMu from Frontier (which is a pain in the ass, due to their few locations and ATMs) . . . at least until things feel more stable.

Posted by Levislade | September 15, 2008 11:20 AM
26

If you're going to switch, why not consider a local credit union instead of another big bank.

Posted by AmblerAK | September 15, 2008 11:21 AM
27

Anyone who believes that the FDIC guarantee is "solid" should take a look at what they have on their balance sheet and how much it cost them to take over IndyMac, a MUCH smaller bank.

Posted by Pondscum | September 15, 2008 11:22 AM
28

It just seems prudent to go take a look at bankrate.com and find a highly rated credit union in your area and move your money there. Credit unions offer a lot of benefits over banks including lower fees.

Yes, if you're under the $100K limit you'll get your money back eventually, but why go through the hassle? Panic now and beat the rush.

Posted by skf | September 15, 2008 11:24 AM
29

The biggest problem with this whole situation is that the government's action hasn't done anything to stem the fall. What's the point of taking on 800 Bil in debt for no discernable difference in outlook.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | September 15, 2008 11:28 AM
30

I felt sorry for the WaMu guys at the branch in the grocery store I went to this morning. The branch was empty, but every time someone walked close to it they all jumped a little and looked at each other nervously. I think they must read Slog.

Posted by PopTart | September 15, 2008 11:29 AM
31

@26 seconded. I've used credit unions since I started banking. BECU is where I do most of my banking, including my mortgage (fixed-rate even). Not-for-profit banking is where it's at.

Posted by tim | September 15, 2008 11:29 AM
32

@8: No, they're not. ING DIRECT is most definitely a north american company (based in Delaware), but yes, their parent (ING) is based in Amsterdam.

Posted by Carollani | September 15, 2008 11:40 AM
33

incorporation in Delaware is a mere formality for business operation in the United States. Where do the profits go Carollani?

Posted by Bellevue Ave | September 15, 2008 11:42 AM
34

Who bought SKF on Friday?

Posted by Bellevue Ave | September 15, 2008 11:49 AM
35

@34 I wish I could say me!

Posted by Pondscum | September 15, 2008 11:56 AM
36

@33, why does it matter where the profits go?

Posted by Fnarf | September 15, 2008 11:57 AM
37

Bellevue Ave @ 33: Hopefully, the profits go to the stockholders. I is a North American and I are one. You can track their ADR here.

Posted by David Wright | September 15, 2008 11:58 AM
38

@13,

If WaMu goes tits up before the CDs mature, the FDIC might only reimburse you for the initial investment amount. I'm not positive about that, but that's what I've heard.

Posted by keshmeshi | September 15, 2008 12:01 PM
39

ADR = American Depository Shares. How is this an American company again?

Posted by Bellevue Ave | September 15, 2008 12:03 PM
40

Bellevue Ave: I don't claim they are an American company. I just claim that the whole question isn't well-defined.

Certainly from a technical-legal perspective, that Deleware company is just as American as any other, subject to all the same rules as any other American company incorporated in Deleware.

You can't use a "where do the profits flow?" criterion, because they flow to shareholders all over the world.

Certainly, in a colloquial sense of where "did they start?", "where is their headquarters?", "what passport does their CEO hold?", ING is Dutch.

Posted by David Wright | September 15, 2008 12:19 PM
41

You're ultimately right.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | September 15, 2008 1:13 PM
42

WaMu will likely fail soon. Its stock closed today at $2, down 25%. That is BK levels. Credit default swaps indicate the market thinks there is a 50/50 it will go BK tomorrow.

Don't rely on the FDIC - they have only $53 and a bailout of WaMu alone will require more than that.

It is possible they could sell some branches to raise money but they are down to days left to do so.

Protect yourself, as no one is looking out for your interests on Wall St. or Washington. They are trying to save themselves first.

Posted by moab | September 15, 2008 1:33 PM
43

Keshmeshi @13:
The principal as well as any accrued interest will be reimbursed.

Posted by happy renter | September 15, 2008 4:20 PM
44

Moab - Doesn't matter how much the FDIC has, they're going to pay out to everyone with less than $100K, there isn't a chance in hell that Congress wouldn't immediately cough up the money.

The big question is whether Paulson consider WAMU to be on the list of companies he won't allow to fail. I think he was particularly loathe to help Lehman because they refused to take the appropriate medicine and turned down several sale offers over the past few months. Merrill-Lynch was very smart in selling out this weekend.

Either way, people who have savings/checking accounts at WAMU are going to see, at worst, an annoying few days where it's tough to get at your money (I'd recommend taking out a bit extra cash).

The ones who are really screwed are the shareholders, the employees, and if this crisis continues, all of us.

Posted by bob | September 15, 2008 9:30 PM

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