Slog

And how about we take the hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars the Bush administration proposes to spend buying back bad debt - and instead use it to directly help homeowners out of foreclosure? End of bad debt, end of mortgage crisis, end of problem.

But no, we're going to bail out the people who invented the derivatives and securities that created the whole problem.

Socialism for Wall Street, and "you're on your own" for Main Street. We're screwed. Big time.

Yes but too windy as usual. Making higher taxes patriotic-- and denouncing the rich, the CEOs, the mismanager of wall street as unpatriotic -- should be developed and repeated over and over for years and years the same way the right wing denounced liberals as lazy welfare cheats and their enablers etc. I mean, your narrative is so much clearer if you have a devil in it instead of just complaining about the "failed poalicies ofthe past" or "we need a new spirit of unity and national purpose."

Meanwhile the overall race is up for grabs still. Since Slog has been cited polls lately here's some more, from real clear:

Big Ten Battleground Polls
Minnesota: Obama 47, McCain 45
Wisconsin: Obama 45, McCain 44
Iowa: Obama 45, McCain 45
Indiana: McCain 47, Obama 43
Pennsylvania: Obama 45, McCain45
Michigan: Obama 48, McCain 44
Ohio: Obama 46, McCain 45

In other words being tied in PA. being only 2 pts. ahead in MN etc. sucks, and we have no idea if the Bradley effect will be outweighed by the Obama ground game and higher turnout of youth and AAs.

I hope Obama capitalizes (pun intended) on the recent plans to socialize our financial sector and institute taxpeyyer-funded guarantees for catastrophic financial illness as a way to move the national discussion to socialized medicine, solicalized college tuition, etc. This is a real moment for change that is rare in history. I hope he uses it to convince the braod majority of Americans that enough is enough with the failed policies of the past -- but unless he makes the connection from the finance crisis to the health care crisis and other things, even if he's elected we won't get that sweeping change we need.

AIG at $85 B is $600 per taxpayer. So the overall bailout at eight times that is about $4800 per taxpayer. So you and I are asked to pay $4800 to sustain the finance sector, by having any taxes to pay for health care, r and d, infrastructure and green jobs is redistributionist socialism and unfair etc. etc. Obama really needs to use this crisis to upend and CHANGE the whole framework of how middle Americans see our economic system.

PS: ideological note. I find I am to the left of many Slog readers on many issues (I am basically in favor of everything they have in Western Europe), also impeachment if nor war crimes trials, and it's more on the tactical or electoral strategy side of things (a certain tone or feeling or view, that to win we need to connect to, woo and get votes from, some slices of the electorate to the right of most Seattleites including myself) that leads some to conclude (mistakenly) I am somehow right wing.

So to be clear: the current financial crisis and socialziation of the whole finance sector financed by about $5000 per taxpayer BETTER be used by Obama as the WEDGE to create a FRAME for nationalized health care, and similar fundamental change policies, or else we will lose the opportunity for real change.

In this context, harping on Palin or cultural issues or backwoods people or people with mullets is even more of a dead end move. This is the moment we've been waiting for.

While Obama supports the president's plan to socialize the capitalists he better communicate that if we pay for them, THEY GOTTA PAY FOR US with higher taxes full health care govt. led investments in the new green economy etc.

Pls. make a note of it.

They need to hammer home this message that Obama is for tax cuts for the middle class, and that the only people that will pay more are the richest x% of Americans (and that bit about it being patriotic for the rich to accept higher taxes is nice too). This was pretty good, but not soundbite-y enough for the Low Info Voters.

Can we put commenter handles at the tops of comments so I don't have to waste any time reading a sentence or two of PC's posts before I realize who it is? Thanks!

finally Obama/Biden is framing taxes using George Lakoff's advice.

@2: I didn't read anything past "Yes but too windy as usual."

tax cuts for the middle class is naked pandering. it may be politically necessary, but it is still irresponsible and half-assed in its attempt to justify the existence of government and the need to pay taxes.

@4:

I'm with @6: you really only need to read the first line or two before you can tell it's a PC post.

Finally, some frank talk about class warfare.

I kinda figured that whole unity message would have to go at some point.

the status quo is class warfare.

@7
Naked pandering? As opposed to what? The fully clothed pandering to the ultra rich we have now? Damn those sniveling middle class people with their need for schools, police, fire fighters and all the other wasteful stuff that our taxes pay for so the government can provide the service.

Naked pandering, yes. But more to the point, notoriously ineffective as political argument. Is patriotism the exclusive province of the rich?

Bill Clinton managed to nudge tax incidence in a progressive direction, but that was by telling everybody they'd have to sacrifice a little ... and the blowback was thunderous.

As for Obama, the tax breaks you think he promised are not the tax breaks he promised ... and even those won't happen. Result over the horizon: one large mainstream even more cynical about political do-gooders, and an easier road for the rich.

No, no, no, no, no. Talking about tax cuts for anybody plays right into Republican hands. The correct answer is, "Fuck you for trying to bankrupt the government and enrich your cronies, you bastard. Why don't you want to do your Goddamn patriotic duty and help pay for things like roads and schools?" The US is in a financial crisis, and raising taxes is one of a very few ways to improve the situation.

@6 and 8,

Yeah, but every once in a while, PC is coherent and I get stuck reading at least a paragraph before I realize it's her (him, whatever).

i've gotten pretty good at pc detection. once you nail it down, it's easier to spot pc's sock puppet attempts as well...

i love how a comment that begins with "too windy as usual" [2] is followed by a 1000-word, barely coherent rant.

16, i don't know from "barely coherent" but i was also amused by opening with "too windy as usual" and following with a (as usual) verbose rant.

I have enjoyed the comments from outsider PC.

AND MORE harm than good? That is just plain group think at its worst.

The best device in life to think well is someone who offers a robust challenge. To the point of friendly loud and personal.

PC makes this blog work better. Other, it is a stroke fest that wins no elections.

It's simple math. The bottom half of income earners pay a small share of overall taxes (last I checked it was about 10%), yet that money means a lot more compared to their standard of living. So you can cut their taxes, even to zero, and it doesn't have as much impact on the budget as tax cuts for even a small number of the extremely wealthy. Yet the stimulus effect is greater.

I personally advocate for zero income tax on the median income, and a single much higher marginal rate thereafter, targeted to maintain revenue. The middle class (i.e at or below the median income) should only be paying (payroll) taxes for entitlement programs where the long-term benefit is scaled to contributions and it's a good deal for everyone, or for use taxes such as gas taxes that are necessary to encourage more efficient behavior across the population.

I own a small business and I say "Right on Joe, you tell 'em." The phonies who say they the support the war and support the troops, but are too chicken-shit to serve themselves and too selfish to pay for it are not patriotic. Those who are too selfish to pay the price of freedom are UNPATRIOTIC.