Slog

Welcome to the era of the Wall Street welfare Queens. What hypocricy! The most expensive Republican blunder in history. Disgusting, deplorable and just plain the result of the same stupidity that gave us "abstinance only", "no child left behind" , etc. etc.

Yes, Vince, this is a Republican dirty diaper to be sure, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the Democrats haven't added to the filth in that diaper.

It might help win the election for Obama to get the bailout framed that way, but it doesn't change the dynamics that brought the economy to this point.

It is more like a national version of socialism...hmmm, National and Socialism....I have heard that before, that phrase "National Socialism"...I think that in German it has a snazy sounding name. Nazism.

Andrew, Germany went from a country with runaway inflation and a broken economy to a world power in a few short years due to National Socialism. Imagine if we used American tax dollars to benefit all Americans, rather than a few off shore owned corporations.

Oh! 'Off shore' owned. I get it. Like when we say 'Canadian.'

The U.S.S.R. version of Socialism at least gave people free housing, education and medical care. What we're getting isn't Socialism, but a little game I like to call "subsidized gambling." It's where a select group of rich people get to play high-stakes games of chance with other people's money! If they win, they keep the winnings, but if they lose we cover their losses and provide them with a fresh stake, right out of our own wallets. Our reward is that we get to admire their opulent lifestyles from afar.

It's the American Dream!

This has happened because life for most Americans (NOT all mind you) was very comfortable. We let the folks in DC run around like kids in a candy store. I blame the American population for being complacent and thinking that our elected leaders had our interests at heart; they did/do not. Time to wake up and clean house. Of course this won't happen as long as most(NOT all mind you)Americans are comfortable.

Several decades ago the Republicans hit on the strategy of forcing deficit spending so far past the redline that, anytime the Democrats won the presidency or control of Congress, they would be completely hamstrung in implementing any social programs requiring new spending. This worked for the Repugs because a) they could spend in deficit on things that made their dicks hard anyway, like beefing up the military, starting bullshit wars, and massive tax cuts for the rich; and b) the oligarchs at the top were largely insulated from the negative effects of this behavior anyway since their corporations were based offshore and hence tax-sheltered; they were also the first to get the newly minted money printed to cover the deficit spending, so they could spend it before most of the inflationary effects kicked in.

People, we're talking about trillions of dollars in addtional debt to cover these sins: long-term liability of 2-3 trillion for the Iraq war and 750 billion for the bailouts/buyouts of the last two weeks plus additional 5 trillion or so of liability in case Fannie and Freddie and their associated mortages go completely bust.

1-2 trillion would have fixed all our broken national infrastructure and provided jobs along the way. Another 1-2 trillion would have moved us more than halfway to energy independence with a variety of current technologies, with massive job creation and other evenly distributed continuing benefits included. A mere 60 billion would have given us a health-insurance system that would cover everybody, at half the cost of the current system. These things will now be extremely difficult to implement even if Obama wins and the Dems pick up congressional seats.

Sadly, Everett Dirksen's famous crack now needs updating by three orders of magnitude: "A trillion here, a trillion there, and pretty soon you're talking about a lot of money."

Everyone should feel a white-hot rage burning behind their eyeballs. It's clear that the oligarchs were trying like hell to stave off this meltdown until after the election, or even better for these sick fucks, until after the possible inauguration of Obama so they could blame it on him in terms that the idiot masses would buy into. Even now they're trying to ascribe it to the mere presence of Obama on the ticket.

Capitalism sounds like a wonderful idea. They should try it in this country.

Well, your reward is also that

(a) the whole economy doesn't go down the tubes.
(b) as with the RTC, we could easily benefit. They're going ot pay like 40 cents on the dollar for all the bad paper, and it's not the case that 60% of all lonas are in default.

So (c) smart thing to do is say "shit yeah we'll bail out the banks but in return we get socialized health care and the total Obama green investment package"

Unlike USSR you have a vote so use it.
Demand the Dems tie this bail out to everything else we want.

Here we are talking about a $700 b finance bail out -- we need Democratic politician to make the connection and say "I'm going to vote for this but we damn well better get national health care asap."

In fact, why don't they just tie this bail out legislation to allowing every American into the US SEnate health care plan effective immediately with full coverage, preexisting condition or not, and Sec. Paulson can work out the premium structure and details later.

Or are we all just whining on blogs?

but this is exactly what you anti capitalists wanted right? a social safety net to prevent collapse. a capitalist system wouldn't have bailed them out.

PC, you said "we" again.

@11: So you're already trying to rewrite history by claiming that Bush et al. were just tools of the socialist masses?

I will readily agree that if GENUINE fiscal conservatives had been in charge for the last 8 years, we probably wouldn't be in this fix.

But if, in fact, "collapse" is prevented (still a very poor bet), the "social safety net," such as it is, will be a mere trickle-down effect of the massive handout to the wealthy, priapic, drunken, overgrown frat boys who have run the economy right off the rails. The true cost will be borne by ordinary people for generations to come.

"We" who want a more just society, who want the Demodcratics to win and enact sweeping changes, who want national health care, who want a govt. that deals with climate change, etc.

That "we."

But not "we" who are for the unrelutated "free market" in dog breeds, and who would thus oppose bans on wolves, hyenas, or pit bulls, like you, mr. e.

Capiche?

hardly rewriting anything here. a lot of this crisis was precipitated by poorly crafted regulation that proved to give a false sense of security. but enough about regulation fd's failings.

its obvious to anyone, free market, socialist, capitalist, wall street, mainstreet, that we need to raise taxes, enforce rules we already have, and not blindly pursue idealistic goals at the expense of practicality.

I have enjoyed the comments from outsider PC. That is just plain group think at its worst.

The best device in life to think well is someone who offers a robust challenge. To the point of friendly loud and personal.

PC makes this blog work better. Other, it is a stroke fest that wins no elections.

That's it Bellevue...stay the course, right?

Stick to the mainstream!

The middle of the road is where all of the answers are. Right in the center of everything so you can hide. No ideology required there...at least not the appearance of it.

That's a real easy place to stay and wear the hat of moderation while you pull firmly on your boot straps.

You don't fool me.

Conservatives are the "over grown frat boys." They started this economic deregulation disaster with Reagan.

With the name "Republican" being the equivalent of shit, I love how so many Republican/Conservative try to take off their proverbial uniforms and claim "hey that wasn't us, that was those other guys." Classic and oh yeah, it is still bull shit.

And how is this different from a kleptocracy?

@1 In all fairness, it's not clear yet if this is "The most expensive Republican blunder in history". The Iraq war is likely to cost $3 trillion, while this might come in under that. So it might well be only the 2nd most expensive Republican blunder ever. We'll just have to see.

In the mean time the dollar has come up a bit in all the panic. A good opportunity to trade greenbacks for currencies backed by functioning governments...

What the fuck are Patty Murry and Kantwell going to do? Should they vote to strap the people with trillions of dollars of debt?

@21 - why don't you call them?

Cantwell: 202-224-3441
Murray: 202-224-2621
McDermott: 202-225-3106

The only correct answer when a Republican rails against socialists is a bullet in their communist brain.

Admittedly, this is a waste of a good bullet, but Charles is spot on.

This is all ridiculous without regulation. Can't the FEMA just demand that al if Senator Gramm's meddling be undone?

FEMA? Iphone's too smart for it's own good. I meant 'Dems.'

90 days and a wakeup.

have any of you read about the 700 bil plan? it's, well, putting more power into the executive branch than you could have imagined, and when times get tough people don't want read the fine print and will approve it.

this is a financial 9/11. everyones a socialist when times look bleak.

and i don't see anyone advocating anti-trust going forward;

if a company is too big to fail it needs to be broken up. thats good regulation.

Actually, Bellevue Ave, it's more like $2 trillion, not just $700 million.

But your socialist comrade CEOs get to keep their bonus payments for the years when they "made" big profits from fake money.

Republican - thy name is Socialist.

Lop off the 3%.

Use the Guillotine:

http://dyo.customink.com/cink/r.jsp?E=jabailo%40texeme.com&F=3percent3

@16:

Nicely done but I had to dock points because you didn't reel anyone in. 8/10

@16 Additionally, nearly the same post the other day, signed with a different handle, gives you away. Fuck off.

OK people, we saw rash decisions made after 911, let's make sure our representatives know we support their prudence, call them and let them know we advocate waiting until November 5th to write this blank check. We really need more information before any decision is made. These guys will bleed us dry if we let them. Thanks to @22 for making it easy for all of us.

Cantwell: 202-224-3441
Murray: 202-224-2621
McDermott: 202-225-3106

Also, votefromabroad.org for those of us overseas who need to register to vote and democratsabroad.org for those of abroad who need like-minded friends.