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Monday, September 22, 2008

Savage Love Letter of the Day

posted by on September 22 at 13:48 PM

Letter of the day? It’s more like a dialogue—or an extremely lengthy email exchange—and since it’s pretty epic, most appears after the jump. And BA will see this post, so feel free to offer your own advice in comments.

We spoke briefly about my husband’s crossdressing and diaper fetish some time ago (Diaper Pals, Feb 8, 2007). After about a year and alot of work we found a “happy medium” and things toddled along fairly well for awhile. But now I’m pregnant (late first trimester) and every time he slides those nappies on I feel this overwhelming urge to throw something at him. I don’t want sex at all, must less the time-consuming extravaganza satisfying his fetish regularly requires. I just want to sleep, literally, all the time.

When I tried to delicately bring this up, he pointed out some of the “finer print” on the agreement we worked out between us, where I promised him a set number of hours a week in exchange for him not masturbating himself to the point where he doesn’t want to perform with me on “my days” (one of the issues we had). Obviously this is a situation where we need to renegotiate our deal—I am perfectly fine with him masturbating himself raw all he wants, in whatever clothing makes him happy, so long as he does it away from me as the rubbing plastic sounds grate on my nerves for some stupid reason.

I’ve brought this up, but he’s reluctant to work with me on this. He feels betrayed that I don’t want to participate anymore, despite our deal, and even further betrayed that (when he switches to his other fetish, crossdressing) I don’t find him attractive at all. One girly moan and I’m, quite literally, nauseated. I know I’m not being GGG here, but the mere thought of six more months of his claiming that I “already love the baby more than him” and saying that, if it’s a girl he “just knows he’ll be jealous” is really starting to wear me out. I’m a wreck all the time, I can’t keep a damn thing down, and I’m sick to death of his (what I consider to be) goddamn selfish attitude! We agreed on starting our family together!

Why in the hell is he acting like this NOW when it’s too late to back out?!

I need advice, pointers, something… ANYTHING to say to him. I know this can be figured out but I can’t wrap my head around how. I just can’t handle this by myself anymore!

Beyond Annoyed


A lot of men get little or no sex while their partners are pregnant. Your reproductive organs are pretty much OCCUPIED at the moment. Quite literally. So give him permission to wank all he wants right now. Just make sure you both understand—and say out loud, and realize and believe—that your pregnancy is ONLY TEMPORARY. No need to end your old agreement. Just suspend it.

Dan

Thank you. I appreciate you getting back to me so quickly.

I’m just worried about one thing—what do I do if, after the baby’s here, I look at all the “big baby” stuff and still can’t stand the thought of dealing with it? You’re a dad and (if I’m remembering this right from your book) you got your son when he was a baby, right? How much did his needs cut into your private time with your partner?

Naturally baby comes first, but I’m concerned about how frustrated I’m going to get laundering two sets of diapers, giving two different feedings, telling two bedtime stories, etc. I have no idea how soon he’s going to want to re-initiate activities once version 2.0 is born, though TBH, at this moment, I don’t care. (Which of course, since I was raised Catholic, trips my guilt.)

I’m freaking out a little simply because, while I love him, I desperately don’t want to associate hubby’s kink with our upcoming bundle of joy. One is something that turns him on the other is… well, will be our baby.

I’m frustrated and guilty and angry and sick and just hating the world right now. Worse yet, I’ve bit my tongue several time to keep the “why can’t you just be NORMAL?!?!” question from flying out of my mouth in the past few weeks. I know he can’t control what he likes… I just wish he’d be more reasonable about it.

Sorry to dump on you. It’s been a hell of a week.

BA

You’re hormonal… right?

I mean that in the nicest possible way. You’re going to have to compartmentalize, BA, and keep your actual baby child separated from your adult baby fetishist. And remember: Your child’s infancy is temporary. Your kid will out grow it. So a time will come, after two or three years, when the baby stuff is “his” again, and not your child’s. But, yeah, it will definitely be a bit
trickier to navigate his fetish—emotionally—during this period of overlap, for sure. So the husband should brace himself for less baby-play during his child’s infancy. Tell him I said so. And get a diaper service.

And you might want to consider letting him get a little indulgence elsewhere—many pro doms do adult baby play, for instance. Better for him to be happy and, er, pacified, and for you two to stay together and parent together, than for him to be frustrated at being denied and you to feel guilty/resentful about being forced to play along.

My partner and I adopted our son as an infant—the day he was born, in fact—but we adopted. While bringing a baby home cut into our sex life, it was mostly a problem of logistics. Neither of us had to endure the huge physical and hormonal deal that is being pregnant, giving birth and recovering. It can’t compare to what you’re going through.

Dan

I’m not offended. Hormonal is the absolute nicest way to describe the insane ups and downs I’ve been going through lately. I actually prefer “raging-psycho-lunatic-bitch.” Much catchier. Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you. I needed to hear that. I needed to hear that it’s okay, that our sex life isn’t baby-damaging, and that juggling the two can be done.

As for the pro-dom, I already suggested that along with the free-pass for jerk-off funtime, but he’s shy and more than a little self-loathing about his fetish so I sincerely doubt he’ll take me up on it. Thank you.

BA

You could find the dom for him. I know a lot of pro doms, and they are all—to a woman—touched when a wife gets in touch with them to set up an appointment for a hubby whose needs exceed their interests, abilities, or capacities. It’s really a loving act. If your husband is too nervous to explain what he’s interested in, you could lay it all out.

And he likes being dominated about this stuff, right? And he’s into the humiliation aspect? So if it’s not a financial hit (doms are pricey), why not call a few in your area, interview ‘em, find one you think is sane and respectful, and set something up. then tell your hubby—order your hubby—to go see the nice
lady. Tell him he doesn’t have to explain what he wants or what he’s into. she’s already been told. He just has to go and enjoy. And your small investment of time (finding a dom, interviewing her, setting up the appointment), could keep your husband off your back for a good, long while.

Oh, and you’re a saint and your husband better stop taking you for granted. Have him read this exchange, and re-read the advice I gave guys back in early 2007.

Dan

Thank you! I suppose a pro would be an option. I’ve never really researched it before. We’re in a big city, so there’s bound to be someone who might work. :)

BA

RSS icon Comments

1

the mere thought of six more months of his claiming that I “already love the baby more than him” and saying that, if it’s a girl he “just knows he’ll be jealous” is really starting to wear me out

Divorce. Any human that competes with his own fucking infant is never going to be able to deal with interpersonal relationships in a resaonably healthy way.

Posted by Mike in MO | September 22, 2008 2:01 PM
2


Geez, Dan; even with a kid on the way, I have to wonder if the best advice isn't DTMFA. I'm pretty surprised that you're advocating negotiation with someone incapable of give and take. This guy is centered completely on his own needs, and focused on manipulating BA into meeting them. I don't think he's even a halfway decent partner, and can't imagine the mess he'll be as a father when he is criticizing an expectant mother for loving her child, and actively anticipating being jealous of his own daughter.

This seems like a good argument against every child deserving a mother and father - not because dad is into acting like a baby, but because dad isn't acting. He is a baby, and he needs to grow up.


Posted by bohica | September 22, 2008 2:06 PM
3

That crossed my mind too, I have to say. But... I'm trying to find a solution here, Mike in MO. I do think, however, that BA's husband needs to be slapped. Once or twice. Or thirty thousand times. Or more.

Posted by Dan Savage | September 22, 2008 2:07 PM
4

this is not a logistics problem, it's a character problem. the problem isn't that he's a diaper fetishist. the problem is that he's an asshole. no matter how accommodating BA is, or how hard she tries to make things work, he is still going to be an asshole. she needs to start thinking about cutting her losses.

Posted by jon c | September 22, 2008 2:11 PM
5

What Mike in MO said. Maybe. Certainly it's an option anyway, and nobody would ever blame her. (Well, some of us might seriously wonder why she married the guy, nevermind thought he'd make a good father. But we might be being uncharitable.)

In any case, hubby-baby needs to grow the fuck up, now. In all possible har-har-har senses of the term. If he's got the money, get his ass into therapy and try to figure out why his sexuality got tied in a knot around this point. If not, oh well, time to man up and face the responsibility anyway: the time to realize that he couldn't cope with being sexually jealous (!) of his infant (!!) getting its diapers changed (!!!) was before he agreed to have a goddamn baby.

Posted by Doctor Memory | September 22, 2008 2:15 PM
6

she needs to kick him in the nutz. this loser is in for a rude awakening as a new parent, and the thought of this type of fetishist around kids is seriously creepy

Posted by daiper pail | September 22, 2008 2:16 PM
7

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with 1, 2, and 4. It has nothing to do with his fetish and everything to do with his priorities. If he can't make his wife his top priority for 9 months over his sexual needs, then they are going to have some real issues later, as she predicts. If this fetish is allowed to become the guilt-trip that he's currently using it as, he'll begin to whip it out whenever he needs something to hang over her head.

Imho, she should have a pretty frank discussion, not about his fetish, but about his priorities and what he hopes for the future. If they aren't responsible, realistic goals for a family, she ought to cut that cancer out of her life.

Posted by Hate to say it... | September 22, 2008 2:20 PM
8

Before everyone yells divorce, keep in mind that there's only one side of the story told here. I'm not excusing the husband's behavior, but BA may be exaggerating how bad it is (she admits feeling hormonal). It sounds like their original problem was resolved the first time, let's not run to the hills immediately.

Posted by GS | September 22, 2008 2:21 PM
9

I disagree with the commenters who say DTMFA. He clearly needs, as Dan says, to be slapped. Possibly a lot. And only then, if those slaps fail to correct him, is it time to think about ending things.

They're married, after all, and marriage is a constant see-saw between love and irritation. Spouses should be able to admit mistakes and forgive each other, and then go back to what they were doing when they fell in love.

Posted by mattymatt | September 22, 2008 2:23 PM
10

My concern is that the guy is sufficiently absorbed by his sexual need to be a baby, that he's not going to step up and actually be a parent the rest of the time. Can he compartamentalize well enough to be a full grown man to his child, even if he needs to be a baby in bed? From how he's treating his wife, he sounds closer to 3 than 30.

Posted by jd | September 22, 2008 2:24 PM
11

Oh my freakin’ God that doesn’t even exist! This guy is teetering on the edge of full out crazy! He can’t rationalize the responsibilities/joys of having a newborn, and compartmentalize his fetish fun time separately?!?!? Jealous of the yet to be born baby because he/she has to shit in their pants all the time, and wear baby clothes?!? HAS TO, not gets to for special fun time with ‘Mommy’!!! He should be on permanent diaper duty for the first year and a half, and when this kid starts eating solid foods, nothing but blue berries and green beans for a solid week. Selfish bastard!!!

Posted by PDX_Paulie | September 22, 2008 2:25 PM
12

I think we're forming a consensus here: this guy needs to get his priorities straight. He needs to think about the spirit of a relationship and not the letter of their diaper fetish agreement.

There's a chance that there's a good guy behind the jerky behavior. With a baby on the way, it's ridiculous to just say DTMFA. But what will wake him up? What will get through his whiney, needy self-importance?

I suggest having him read not only this email exchange, but also these comments. Then, yeah, tell him you love him, and tell him you'll work with him. But he also needs to dunk his head in cold water and realize two things. 1) He's about to be a father. 2) He's being an asshole.

As Ann Landers used to say (or was it Dear Abby?): Wake up and smell the coffee.

Posted by Gray | September 22, 2008 2:32 PM
13

D-I-V-O-R-C-E. He is cleary a selfish asshole. His fetish is more important to him than the woman who is carrying his child. He thinks he's going to be jealous is it's a girl?! RUN RUN RUN for your life.

Posted by kate | September 22, 2008 2:33 PM
14

At the risk of sounding like a chauvinist asshole, BA did admit herself that she's raging pretty hard on hormones. It's entirely possible that husband isn't being as big an ass as he's made out to be.

At any rate, I don't think Dan's advice goes unreasonably far in trying to work things out before giving up on the relationship.

Posted by Ben | September 22, 2008 2:33 PM
15

Get the fuck out of that relationship as soon as possible would be the obvious response.

Posted by johnnie | September 22, 2008 2:35 PM
16

This relationship is not likely to work. The husband needs therapy to address his narcissistic features (in the personality disordered sense). This is a particularly difficult personality type to work with (there is nothing worse than a dumb narcissist) and progress is likely to be very slow. People like this view others instrumentally, as a means to their own ends. The wife needs to become empowered and realize that whatever fantasy she had regarding her partner, it is not going to survive the added responsibilities of parenthood. It's easy to love someone. Living with someone is harder and having children is even harder. I'll tell ya: It shouldn't be this hard. Finally, this level of frustration and resentment is going to be really damaging to a child raised in this environment. What kind of a role model will either of them be if BA puts up with this and the big baby feels anger toward the child? The child could easily grow up learning to be a doormat that hates his/herself. BA needs to put aside what she thinks is love for this schmuck and DTMFA.

Posted by LMSW | September 22, 2008 2:35 PM
17

Just wait until a few months of sleep deprivation kicks in, especially if hubby gets jealous of all the nappie, baby wipe, and diaper rash cream attention the real baby is going to get.

No matter how GGG you are, ANY kind of "deal" is going to have to be renegotiated once a baby comes on the scene. Those little bundles of joy can really fuck up your program.

Posted by Westside forever | September 22, 2008 2:43 PM
18

This fellow sounds incredibly self-centered. For those of you using the wife's admitted sense of being "hormonal" as an excuse for the husband's behavior in the belief that she is over-reacting, I have one question. Have you been pregnant? It is a *lot* of work. She is doing it all and he is not being supportive. I am a man, but I work in maternal/fetal healthcare, I can see the energy required to carry, deliver and breastfeed an infant. This fellow needs to man-up and be a father instead of a baby for a while. Fetish or no fetish.

Posted by inkweary | September 22, 2008 2:44 PM
19

GGG be damned. This guy is a total douche bag. Children are wonderful, but they are also the most challenging thing a couple will ever go through. And, they're around for 18 years or more. Is he going to whine for the next 18 years? What if you want to have more than one child? Parenting gets tougher by a quantum margin with each child. Lose this loser now is my advice.

Posted by I Got Nuthin' | September 22, 2008 2:47 PM
20

I have to agree with Ben. I do not think Dan's advice is outrageous.

IF- though- she tries all of this and he continues to act the same exact way at that point I would recommend shifting to the policy of DTMFA.

But seriously, give the guy a chance to clean up his act and "grow up" in terms of his priorities. ESPECIALLY if you (the wife) is okay with hiring a Pro! Come on! He will NEVER find a woman more agreeable. So he really needs to get a clue and get over it!

Oh, and for the person who says that he needs therapy: he does NOT need therapy to "get over" his fetish. Dan Savage will be the first to tell you that never works (at least from what I've read of his opinion on the matter). What he MAY need therapy for, though, is being able to get over his insecurities about the new baby and get tips from a professional on how to prioritize his life. He's obviously sucking at it currently.

Posted by MarsAttack | September 22, 2008 2:51 PM
21

funny, my recent ex doesn't share the fetish, but the personality is eerily similar. I'm so done diapering his sorry ass (metaphorically speaking). I'm realizing again that DTMFA was the right decision.

Posted by tired of caring | September 22, 2008 2:51 PM
22

Hard to come down on the guy without hearing his side of the story.

If hubby thinks he's not getting any now, wait until the kid actually arrives. He'll have a wife with a torn vagina, postpartum depression, a lack of sleep, a parasite attached to her 24/7, and absolutely no sex drive.

Hubby needs to face facts of having a baby -his sex life is pretty much over, at least for a year or two, no matter what agreement he made. If he finds the situation unbearable, that's what prostitutes are for.

Posted by Sean | September 22, 2008 2:51 PM
23

@16: "The husband needs therapy to address his narcissistic features (in the personality disordered sense)."

I love this - if a guy feels at all entitled to having his sexual needs met by his wife, he MUST have a personality disorder.

Posted by Sean | September 22, 2008 3:02 PM
24

I completely agree that this guy should be on thin ice, a possible candidate for dumping, and is a total douche for making these pronouncements NOW, after he agreed to the reproduction program.

There is, however, the possibility that he's just freaking out about having a baby and all the responsibility that will bring. We women have real, tangible causes of pre-baby freakouts, but I think men express such freakiness in more diffuse ways. Add that to his fetish, and, well...?

Tryin' to see the silver lining here. Good luck, BA.

Posted by TVDinner | September 22, 2008 3:04 PM
25

Ok, I was starting to fall in with the 'give him a chance to clean up his asshole act' crowd. Then I re-read her initial letter from 2007.

Even back then she was beyond GGG and he was a whiny brat. Granted, she stayed with him despite this. But she says now that Dan's advice changed things back then, so maaaaybe he has the capacity to fix it. But it seems to me that that his is a part of his personality -- his needy, selfish, uncaring personality. The fetish is (probably) unrelated.

A wife finding her husband a dom is charming, sure, but in this case it also caves to his neediness and teaches him that this is how things get done. DTMFA.

Posted by Michelle | September 22, 2008 3:08 PM
26

MarsAttack@20: As it happens, I don't think that therapy would help him "get over" his fetish, which is why I didn't use any such term. (So thanks for putting it in quotes to make it look like I did. Classy.) But therapy might (note: might) help him figure out why his fetish is dictating his behavior outside the bedroom to the point where his pregnant wife is considering divorcing him for it. In shorter terms, it might help him become less of a dick about his fetish.

...or it might not. In which case: DTMFA.

Posted by Doctor Memory | September 22, 2008 3:19 PM
27

@23: "I love this - if a guy feels at all entitled to having his sexual needs met by his wife, he MUST have a personality disorder."

Anyone who thinks that a sanctioned relationship equates to entitlement is, to overgeneralize grossly, either someone whose religious beliefs allow some individuals to assert rights and ownership power over another, or who thinks that roofie is an appropriate way to make sure that the sex he is entitled to by buying his date dinner actually happens if resistance is met.

Who is entitled to anything from another person?

Flipside: Your children, your responsibility, are entitled to safety, food, shelter. This scenario doesn't sound very safe to me. When someone claims he'll be jealous of his baby because of his own needs, that means he is starting from a point at which the baby is a problem and an obstacles.

The steps from there to child abuse are very very small, if the picture of his behavior is accurate, because he is already a complete and classic narcissist.

Posted by Glenn Fleishman | September 22, 2008 3:26 PM
28

I wonder if he was saying the things about how she "already loves the baby more than and "if it’s a girl he just knows he’ll be jealous” in character as a baby. Which would make sense since kids get jealous of new babies.

But if he was saying it as an adult, then what the fuck. That is fucking ridiculous. Get over yourself.

I agree with the others who suggest that maybe his problem is that he needs to learn to compartmentalize. Nothing wrong with his fetish, but he needs to not let it interfere with how he relates to his wife and daughter in the real world.

Posted by Julie in Chicago | September 22, 2008 3:28 PM
29

How distressing (but not unusual!) to discover that your husband is less together than you thought while pregnant; however, it's probably better that he get some of this stuff out now, rather than after the baby comes. Hopefully, he's exorcising (sp?) the last gasps of adolescent self-centeredness while you are less obviously pregnant & will get his shit together once the beached whale effect kicks in. I think lots of non-birth parents have a hard time understanding how difficult 1st trimester is because you don't look that pregnant. I also think alot of non-birth parents have major freak-outs during their partner's pregnancies/around birth if they didn't fully realize what they were getting into (noone does).

That said, if your husband doesn't show signs of understanding his critical support role in this business (i.e. cooking for you, massaging your feet, doing housecleaning that will become increasingly difficult, otherwise battening down the hatches - i.e. getting finances in order, whatever) as you get closer to birth, I'd suggest taking steps to make sure that you have sufficient support post-partum. Rather than spending effort/resources finding your husband a pro-dom, I'd focus my energy on lining up either a very trustworthy relative/very close friend/doula who can be your birth support, and more importantly, stay with you the first week plus after the baby is born, and then further friends/relatives who can continue to bring food by/help clean up. The first few months w/a newborn can be really challenging, & it sounds like your beginning to wonder if he's up to it. I'd have a plan in place so that I could feel secure in being supported, regardless of his emotional state.

You might also consider doing things that will help make the baby more real to him, i.e. maybe take a birth class a little early, try to find ways of hanging out w/babies, ask him to sign up for the weekly developmental updates that most hospital's send out, read books together, etc. If he won't do these things, you can take that as an indicator that he might not be there for you & plan accordingly.

Posted by 3rd3mester | September 22, 2008 3:33 PM
30

The issue here goes beyond fetishes and hormones. First off, fetishes don't make someone an asshole. Being manipulative and expressing an insight-free sense entitlement to your wife's time and attention, over and above that of your unborn child, kinda does.

As for the hormones, well the writer seems like she was never really comfortable with her husband's fetishes in the first place--although she tried. I get the impression she supressed her feelings of discomfort rather than working through them--that's where her anger and nausea are coming from. Hormones, Schmormones, they only enhance what's already there, emotion-wise. It's striking that she doesn't understand why the sound of squishing rubber and girly moans irritates and nauseaties her. Again, this lack of understanding suggests that she suppressed her feelings rather than made peace with them.

I don't know, maybe she really loves this guy and wants to stay with him no matter what. It's also clearly way too late to say that getting pregnant a year after working through all this stuff is a bad idea. The baby's coming regardless and will bring w/ it a tidal wave of complex emotions, stress and responsibility. Dealing with her husband's personality, lack of support and the fetishes that make her uncomfortable are only going to make a bad situation extremely worse. If she's exhausted now, just wait. Sounds like she has to do a lot of work but he's the one whining about being jealous of the kid.

To the writer I say: dump the guy and get yourself some therapy because you're working way harder than you need to be, and, I think, punishing yourself for nothing.

Posted by are you kidding me with this? | September 22, 2008 3:39 PM
31

One of the joys of parenting is that it teaches you that you are NOT the center of the universe- your baby is. This can be really liberating if viewed from the right point of view.

Mr. BA needs to be metaphysically slapped around for a bit now, though, to prepare him. Because it sounds like he has NO CLUE how much things are going to change once the baby arrives.

Good luck, BA. You sound like a good person. I hope your husband comes around.

Posted by Big Sven | September 22, 2008 3:41 PM
32

My kids are 7 and 4 and i still find I have a hard time being patient with my husband's needs, which are straightforward as they come. And I am a GGG wife, and we have a pretty good sex life for a married couple with two kids.

The kid is going to NEED you, and I mean seriously need you, no one else will do, FOR A LONG TIME. It is hard to talk on the phone cook dinner fold laundry clean up and ESPECIALLY focus solely on your spouse when your child is around.

All that being needed complicates sex.

My guess is your husband is going to have to find another outlet for his fetish, because the part of his fetish that involves caring for him and attending to his baby neediness could get really really Un-Fun and Un-Hot for you.

So don't promise to be back on board any time soon. That whole hormonal thing? continues right through breastfeeding and then slides right into sleep deprivation.

Posted by anne | September 22, 2008 3:44 PM
33

I fall in with the crowd saying it is too early to DTMFA.

There is still room to save this relationship. But hubby needs to get his act together. This is not about the fetish. This is about the recognition that pregnancy and child rearing (which he agreed to) changes things. He agreed to fathering a child. Along with that comes the recognition that BA isn't gonna want much sex for quite some time, and that the baby becomes priority #1.

If he cannot be fully supportive of BA, and if he cannot put the needs of his child first, only then should she DTMFA. But they aren't at that stage... yet.

BA has plenty of leverage. If hubby doesn't already know it, he has the best thing going that he is ever likely to have, given his fetish. If he fucks this up, the likelihood of finding another GGG companion are pretty damned small.

Posted by Reverse Polarity | September 22, 2008 3:46 PM
34

#27 said it: Saying anything about "You already love the baby more than me" or whatever is a HUGE FUCKING FLAG for future child abuse. He can't compartmentalize (good word, Dan) his feelings and his responsibilities, and it's a VERY short step between that and taking it out on the child. She should be GONE by now. She should have been gone the first time he tried to point out their agreement after they knew she was pregnant.

Posted by Kat | September 22, 2008 3:53 PM
35

I swear I don't mean this as a slam against Dan Savage, but anybody who feels she has to turn to him not once, not twice, but have AN ONGOING DIALOGUE WITH HIM in order to survive the constant -- and same! --troubles in her marriage needs to get the hell out of that marriage.

I get what it's like to fall in love with a jerk and then become invested in the relationship in big and important ways. But he's still a jerk and that will never change. You made a mistake in choosing your partner. It's not the end of the world, but staying with him might be close to it.

Get out now before the baby arrives and you're even more upset than you already are.

Posted by whatevernevermind | September 22, 2008 3:59 PM
36

@27: "Anyone who thinks that a sanctioned relationship equates to entitlement..."

A person, man or woman, IS entitled to a healthy and satisfying sex life. This is (or should be) a basic human right. Any spouse, man or woman, who willfully neglects his/her partner's sexual needs has no business being in the relationship.

Posted by Sean | September 22, 2008 4:03 PM
37

@36,

Sex is a basic human right? And who provides that "right"? Are you seriously going to argue that some odious piece of shit (male or female) is entitled to sex? Bullshit.

And, no, no husband or wife is entitled to a good sex life. What they are entitled to is the right to leave if they feel their needs aren't being met.

Posted by keshmeshi | September 22, 2008 4:15 PM
38

My eyes jumped right to "BA will see this post" and I thought, "Are he and Mikki having problems?"

Next step is probably Slog commenters showing up in my dreams.

Posted by Greg | September 22, 2008 4:25 PM
39

As the father of a 4 month old girl, I can tell you that this dude and his sex life are in for a big shock. He'll be lucky to get laid at all for the first few months. And when he does, there'll be some serious time constraints. Babies seem to love to cry right when you are about to get it on.

This guy simply has no idea what is coming his way. Becoming a parent should be something you are pretty goddamn excited about. He's just worried about his own needs. He should start worrying about his wife's needs and if he is really up to the task of being a parent.

All parents are afraid of what they'll be giving up but they are usually also super excited about what's to come. Time to sacrifice buddy. You are going to be giving up a lot more than just your fetish.

Tell this guy to go jack it, grow up and get ready to give up everything he's grown accustomed to. 'Cos that's over (at least for a while). Honestly, I can't even imagine what a dick this guy must be.

Posted by BenskiBeat | September 22, 2008 4:39 PM
40

#32...

What you say no doubt applies to most women and their babies.

But then, Sarah Palin demonstrates it doesn't have to.

If you can apply yourself to learn about economics, foreign affairs and how the government works - be ready to be president - and take care of a special needs infant! - then surely BA should be able to handle this little bump.

Just kidding, guys. I don't think SP can do it all. And I don't think BA should have to try...

Posted by Ayden/VA | September 22, 2008 4:47 PM
41

"his claiming that I “already love the baby more than him” and saying that, if it’s a girl he “just knows he’ll be jealous”

every child does not need a mother and father

- especially if the father resents the kid

Posted by clarity | September 22, 2008 5:31 PM
42

@38: Hahaha! I saw that too but I immediately thought it was going to be about someone with some kind of nasty pit bull fetish, or someone on a Reservation fantasizing about Heath Ledger during sex.

Posted by Mikki | September 22, 2008 5:32 PM
43

@36 - Any spouse, man or woman, who willfully neglects his/her partner's sexual needs has no business being in the relationship.

Being sidelined by the significant physical and emotional stresses of pregnancy, nursing, and caring for a newborn is not willful neglect. Mutual sexual fulfillment is important to a healthy relationship, but anyone who prioritizes their own sexual gratification over their spouse's physical and emotional well-being -- and the well-being of their child, for fuck's sake-- is an asshole with an entitlement complex.

Your "right" to gratifying sex ends where it interferes with your partner's (and children's) right to be healthy, safe, and cared-for. Period.

Posted by lolo | September 22, 2008 5:41 PM
44

BA - Sorry to say this, but you made a deal with your husband and now you're the one who's backing out of it. I agree that you have perfectly valid reasons for wanting to change the arrangement
(baby at both ends of vagina), but you owe your husband a clean and clear discussion about that.

You need a New Deal. It has to work for both of you - you both have to feel good about it. If you can't come up with something you agree on, then remind him to Dan's original advice: "his continued failure to meet your vanilla needs is gonna get his diapered ass divorced, leaving him single and shit out of luck, sex-partner wise, for the rest of his adult infancy." Only this time around, he'll have to pay child support.

Posted by blank12357 | September 22, 2008 5:56 PM
45

I like how the Big Bady whines his wife isn't GGG, but look at him. He's not GGG at all. Never has been. Why on earth did this woman stay with him, let alone have a kid with him? Sheesh, this pervy freak job is the last person on earth who's going to act like a responsible adult.

DTMFA, lady.

Posted by yucca flower | September 22, 2008 5:59 PM
46

DTMFA is NOT the best course of action now. ESPECIALLY when you are hormonal, because I doubt she is in the position to make another significant decission.

Let the guy fuck up again, then DTMFA. But perhaps he is just scared and insecure and is well being a baby by whining about his fetish when he is really scared about his place in the relationship.

Why the hell did she stay with him?

Why the hell isn't he cleaning up his own dirty diapers?

Come to think of it, it sounds like she is doing ALL the work, and now she is going to do the work of finding a dominatrix?

Yeah, maybe she should inevitably DTMFA, because with respect to family time, she was better of with a sperm donar.

Posted by formerly OR Matt | September 22, 2008 6:02 PM
47

BA could present the dom idea to her husband by saying that she has to go out for a while and has hired a "babysitter."

Posted by Babysitter | September 22, 2008 6:18 PM
48

"Why in the hell is he acting like this NOW when it’s too late to back out?!"
BA, wtf? I am hearing that the agreement no longer fits. Seriously, if you were able to make an agreement, what about amending it? You are changing and it sounds like he wants things to stay the same. What exactly was the agreement you made in deciding to start a family now?
By the way, "feeling like a wreck" will pass

Posted by 4f...sake | September 22, 2008 6:31 PM
49

At first I thought - this guy wants to be treated like a baby, if he's good, let him share in the breastmilk.

But then I thought: he's being a total dick to his pregnant so she'll indulge in his stupid-ass kink.

If he wants something in that situation, he's got to stop being a dick in order for negotiations to start, not in exchange for having his fetish indulged.

Posted by Ivan | September 22, 2008 7:33 PM
50

i'd just like to point out to BA that if when she says 'too late to back out', she means, 'too late to back out of having a family with this juvenile, selfish shithead,' that she's not trapped - not at the end of the first trimester, anyway. she has at least three options aside from co-parenting with this amazingly self-involved douchebag:

most clinics (in oregon, anyway) can perform a surgical abortion until 16 weeks gestation. there is no shame in realizing after implantation that you made a mistake creating life with a particular man. you can change your mind about that and take action. it may be emotionally painful, it may be a relief - and it is an option. remaining married to this tantrum-throwing hoser may only draw out the emotional pain over a full lifetime for both you and your kid. that is pain, by amount and duration, that could easily exceed the pain associated with abortion. only you will really know which weighs more heavily;

there are also many, many childless families waiting for babies to be placed in their loving, adoptive care by their natural parents. open adoption is a humane and respectful process for all involved, and deserves consideration if you're not considering termination, but also don't want to co-parent with this selfish jerk or go it alone;

and also, there is no shame - none whatsoever - in choosing to be a single mom over playing 'mommy' to both your (now unborn) child *and* the husband and partner you would otherwise be relying on for physical and emotional support. there are many more fish in the sea, and many of the good ones won't consider you for partner material while you're still married. you can get another partner, and you can live without one. single parenting is hard work and not for the faint of heart, and it is an option. you're free to leave him behind and start a new chapter with your little one - with another person of your choosing or no one at all.

mending your current relationship may be possible, it's just not all you have going. look carefully at your options - options that women only half a century ago would have sorely envied - and as dear old ann would say (if she were typing from dan's desk), answer this question for yourself: are you better off with him, or without him?

best of luck to you.

Posted by happyhedonist | September 22, 2008 9:16 PM
51

I third, fourth, however many it is--DTMFA. He has sexualized infancy and sees your baby as a potential competitor for your sexual affection.

This is beyond a fetish, beyond the give-and-take of most pregnancies/post partum periods. This situation has RED FLAG for child abuse written all over it.

In your original letter to Dan, you mention you work with kids. Have you ever had any workshops or coursework on sexual abuse?

If you were to step outside the situation and look at this as a professional, BA, what would you see? How would you advise someone else?

This truly reads as somethind deeper than hormones and the balancing GGG with vanilla sex. Forget all the agreements about how/when/what kind of sex you'll have and look at the realities of raising a child. Can you and do you want to do it? With this guy or without?

Best of luck. You might think more clearly when you're farther along, but it still won't be easy to sort this out.

Posted by MJ | September 22, 2008 10:28 PM
52

When sex becomes a test/power struggle/chore, trouble usually lies ahead.

When I was pregnant with my first child, the thought of sperm and/or penises made me want to vomit. Needless to say, baby's daddy didn't get any. Nothing changed after our daughter was born. The thought of doing him still made me want to vomit... but by then it was because I realized that he was a self-centered a-hole who cared way more about his own pleasure than about me or our baby. He also couldn't shut up about wanting me to dye my hair blond, get a boob job/tan/full bikini wax, and play the porn star role every time we got it on... none of which felt authentic to me... having sex with him was just too much of a chore/bore and I didn't love him enough to put up with it. I ended up bailing on the relationship for reasons that ran far beyond the sexual mismatch (much to the delight of everyone who knew me).

A few years later, when I was pregnant with my second, I was almost always GGG... but this time, the difference was that I was married to someone with whom I am very sexually, emotionally, and philosophically compatible. My ex recently got married too... his wife has HUGE breasts, blond hair, and probably plays the porn star role perfectly.

Anyway, my point is this...pregnant hormones are likely only amplifying underlying resentment towards the big baby. Taking care of a helpless infant is an exhausting, wonderful experience that should be shared in by one's partner... any partner that is going to instead make the experience tainted by pressure and guilt might not be one worth keeping.

Posted by confirming the majority | September 22, 2008 11:47 PM
53

I'm agreeing with everyone who said that this guy's issues go beyond a fetish. It doesn't sound like *he* is being GGG at all, even though his wife has been trying her best. It also sounds like he has been using their "agreement" as a tool to guilt-trip her into having the kind of sex that he wants, even though she's pregnant and not in the mood.

The wife also sounds like the kind of person who values lasting relationships so much that she can be made to sacrifice too much to make them work. I understand her desire to please, and her resentment that her husband keeps on making her bend toward her breaking point. But her behavior has not been healthy for her or her relationship.

They need therapy all around, or a breakup.

Posted by raisedbywolves | September 23, 2008 12:14 AM
54

Upon re-reading the first letter from BA I also question how he plans to be a parent. The nursery devoted to him in their home has got to go - as do his weekends of being a baby. I just can't realistically see how they can keep their agreement with a child in the home. He is far too demanding. Parents don't get weekends like that and no home with kids can host a full adult nursery without some major issues on the child's part. Really, just can't see how you can devote that kind of time to kink with kids...maybe when they are very small but even that's a strain...who has the energy when they don't get any sleep?

Posted by clarity | September 23, 2008 1:24 AM
55

Look everyone, can we all agree that DTMFA may be great advice for someone who’s not: from a catholic background (where I understand you are never supposed to divorce, ever, for any reason, especially your husband’s needs) pregnant (and determined to keep it, obviously) married and extremely invested? Come on! What is she going to do, walk out her door and wipe her hands and be all, “gosh, leeeeave, that’s what I had to do, thanks for pointing that out everyone!” I wonder if any of these commentators have ever ended a highly invested relationship by hearing DTMFA and realizing their mistake in a flash of light.
Dan was considerate and right to give her practical steps to help ease her into a better situation, rather than simplistic and upsetting bullshit. I’ve been in her hormonal shoes and it is no picnic. Deciding what to eat can seem overwhelming, let alone deciding to end your marriage and face being a single parent. Props to those who had some practical advice (29, 32, 39, 50, 52 etc.) which is what she probably needs right now. People telling her that these decisions are simple or clear cut or easy, not so much.
Good Luck to you BA, make sure you take care of yourself. Sounds like you are a cool lady, and you probably have more people rooting for you than you realize.

Posted by Pragmatist | September 23, 2008 8:13 AM
56

I love Dan, and usually his advice is pretty spot on, but he missed this one. I'm with everyone who says this goes beyond sex, and that is all Dan addressed. He's not just being selfish in the bedroom, now, he's being selfish. This is totally in character with being a baby. Babies are self centered, but with good reason. They are helpless.

I would DTMFA personally. I see no value in staying involved with a man who cannot put his sexual needs aside to invest some TLC on his pregnant wife, and who's expressing feelings of jealousy towards his unborn child. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think people who need entire rooms to house their sexual fetish supplies are hot prospects as parents. Mad props to all who suggested that having an adult nursery in the home is not a great environment for a child. DTMFA.

BUT....

As BA may not want to do this, perhaps some couples therapy would be a better investment than a pro dom. I think they both need to express their feelings with a professional therapist so that make sure they are heard, and perhaps come to a better understanding of how life is going to have to change for both of them. This is not just about their sex life, it's about their life.

And BTW, being hormonal during pregnancy doesn't make women mentally defective. It means we cry at long distance commercials.

Posted by Charm | September 23, 2008 8:28 AM
57

Lawyer, divorce, k thx bye!

Posted by Sirkowski | September 23, 2008 9:07 AM
58

I dunno, I have a feeling the relationship isn't going to work out. Other commentors have put it more eloquently, but basically this guy has made it obvious that he can't think past his sexual needs and isn't up to the ginormous responsibility required of him. Bummer. But it's not to late to make a good decision NOW, and I think the sooner Ms. BA cuts him out the better off she will be, as well as the child if she chooses to keep it. I think waiting around to see if he sucks less later on is too much of a risk.

Posted by Gin | September 23, 2008 1:06 PM
59

Dan, I just want to say that I really love seeing an email exchange. It's fascinating to see how people respond to your advice. More, if you can.

Posted by Gloria | September 24, 2008 7:21 AM
60

I agree the husband looks like a selfish pig in for a rude awakening when he's called upon to assume the responsibilities of a father. The relationship may indeed not work out. My thought though is for any new parents to try to "ride out" the first 2-3 years and then reassess the relationship, rather than pulling the trigger when things are at their toughest. It may be easier to stabilize the relationship when things have calmed down and everyone's getting more sleep.

Posted by Anna | September 26, 2008 1:14 AM

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