Comments on Goodbye to All That

Freedom Cage

You need to be sending a message to us. We know how to embrace the 1st amendment. Duh. Look at me. But! We need to learn how to embrace the 2nd amendment. Who brings signs to a fucking protest without guns taped to the back? Liberals. That's who. Hell, why bring the sign?

B-b-b-but TERRORISTS!

Remember when all us paranoid alarmists expressed concerns that the Patriot Act, the newly-created Homeland Security Dept and all the other new anti-Terrorism measures being enacted in the middle of the night by Congresspeople who hadn't even read them would be used against the American people to suppress legitimate speech and enforce compliance with the dictates of the ruling party? We were right.

Country first? Hm, where have I heard that before?

And this is why there's a second amendment: it's the only one that can be used to protect the other 9.

What's a police state to do but expand?

Thanks for the shout out!

Just sayin'... what, exactly? That NRA members should be going to these rallies and shooting at police?

Well, you can't really pick and choose which rights you want to defend at the cost of others without expecting to lose them all.

When people get a taste of power they always want a second helping. So once you give them an excuse to take a nibble, they'll always find a way to take away your plate.

Dammit man, think of the children!

Yeah, why am I thinking that armed confrontations with police would end badly? And doubly so in court?

Actually, the ACLU and NRA often work together on 1st and 2nd Amendment cases, so I don't know what you're talking about:

Boston Globe

Another example. Considering the huge cultural gap between typical members of the ACLU and the NRA, I think this is pretty commendable:

NY Times

Check it. Even the free speech zones are off limits to free speech. That's how bad things have gotten:

http://www.startribune.com/politics/27748854.html

@4 - You can't blame the Patriot Act for this. Have you forgotten the WTO protests in Seattle in 1999?

Remember the "No Protest Zone"?

The pigs gassed hundreds of peaceful protesters, along with innocent bystanders in Belltown and Capitol Hill.

This was a couple of years before the Patriot Act.

Hey Dan - the first word is "Congress", and the cops were STATE cops, not the Feds. So don't forget to cite the 14th Amendment, too; it makes the 1st Amendment applicable to the States.

Hey Dan - the first word is "Congress", and the cops were STATE cops, not the Feds. So don't forget to cite the 14th Amendment, too; it makes the 1st Amendment applicable to the States.

I've been making this same point since the WTO conference in Seattle. Where are the gun nuts fighting for the other rights? Nowhere. In fact, the gun nuts I knew were all cheering the cops on for their excesses against protesters, just like they are now and just like they do always.

The idea that guns protect other rights is laughable. Guns have historically been used to suppress other rights. Using armed force against a powerful government only works if you have the support of elements of the army and police or the political system. A few freedom fighters with guns cannot take on a military force alone. There's no need to have guns to protect other rights because if things ever get to the point where armed revolution is both necessary and possible, guns will be available regardless of whether they are technically legal or not.

Gun activists use the language of Constitutional rights to support their hobby, and they don't actually give a shit about anyone's right to do anything but shoot at things. I say this as someone who is generally against gun control laws because they're ineffective, pointless, and politically counterproductive.

The cops have a good strategy--bust heads, zip tie all the hippies, put 'em in a pen, and then drop the charges (or lay on some bullshit misdemeanor trespassing charge). I don't think they care one whit about "free expression", but they sure as shit care about every national network showing their city streets filled with rioters at the GOP convention.

As to why the gun nuts don't seem to care about the 1st amendment--that's a head scratcher. But you do have an awful lot of "America, love it or leave it" types in the NRA.

@15: Yes, but I can blame the Patriot Act and all the other post 9-11 Constitution nullifiers for the preemptive raids, the FBI involvement, and the pretty obvious use of wiretapping and email interception to know where and when people were meeting. You're right, busting heads is nothing new, but using Federal resources like this to quell protest is pretty much exactly what the ACLU has been warning people about for the last seven years.