Slog

Why are you knocking the Jesuit priests?

I 100% so cannot wait for the VP debates. We're having those this time, aren't we? Because that's going to be like American Idol and Crossfire had a baby. Without Downs.

AMEN

star2--

I'm not. By putting Jesuits in the same category as peer-reviewed medical articles, I'm actually praising the priests.

Jesuits are perhaps the only socially conservative Christians capable of mounting a coherent ethical argument against termination of pregnancy and contraception. I might not agree with their conclusions, but at least the Jesuit argument is logically consistent--opposing also the death penalty and providing social services to those who decide to keep a child in difficult circumstances.

I'm too fucking disgusted to look it up, but I suspect Governor Palin is both opposed to contraception and in favor of the death penalty.

Uh oh, the GOP wackjobs will be on here any sec. Seems to be a lot of them lately. And they are extremely sensitive and defensive.

Heck, with the GOP this year, not only do you get an out-of-control convention where the cops are tear-gassing and beating heads of the media while the Libertarian anarchists destroy property, you get a Twofer with a McSame/Palin double header of incompetence, greed, and lack of morals.

Sad, very sad.

Forty years in the wilderness, this is their fate.

Perhaps think of it like a second serve in tennis. If Biden takes over it'll be a good thing that he's a more known quantity and older guy. Obama is younger, newer and less experienced but the entire campaign is focused on judging him, not his veep.

But you can't really convince people of this. Some people want a younger inexperienced VP because they see the spot as a learning/grooming position.

@5, those people obviously aren't serious posters, just a single bored troll (or possibly trolls)

She's got a lot of lernin' to do then, daniel.

Hi, my name is Sarah Palin and I believe in abstinence-only sex-education. That's how I raised my daughters - it worked really well with them and... hold on... what's that? Bristol? She's pregnant! Fuck!

My family is off-limits. No further questions. Goodnight.

@ Jonathan Golob,

What really pisses me off about pro-lifers is that they seem to also be very pro-military and pro-war, or at least they vote for people who start wars; they don't give a fuck what happens to children after they're born. The cognitive dissonance has made them psychotic.

And all partisanship aside, the McCain campaign has been the biggest political disaster I've ever seen in my young life. I don't think there's even anything remotely comparable in our modern political history.

The man openly talks about how he doesn't know shit about the economy, the environment or how he's gonna pay for the wars he plans to start and his poll numbers go up! Every day, he makes some kind of career-ending gaffe. Unless the poll numbers themselves are pure fiction which is totally plausible at this point.

The McCain/Palin administration is gonna be one helluva an insane ride!

If someone comes from congress they don't have enough executive experience. If they come from being a governor, they lack foreign experience.

Pick one and shut up GOP.

I shouldn't even need to give you the 10 words it would take to make a logically consistent argument for supporting the death penalty and opposing abortion. Let's just say it uses some of the words: crime, conviction, justice, punishment & innocent.

I am diametrically opposite of Palin but arguing that being anti-abortion and pro-death-penalty is inconsistent is facile. It's embarassing for a party that's supposed have rationality on our side and I'm surprised that a smart pro-rational guy like you would bring it up.

I purposely didn't say "pro-life" because sure, there's a moral disconnect there but that's not the same thing as a logical inconsistency.

@ 10,

The correct term is Ignorance Only education.

I so hope that "ENOUGH" becomes the rallying cry for this election.

Daniel---

I'll grant you that one can make a shaky pro-death penalty and con-contraception ethical argument that is logically consistent--provided one starts with the faulty and disproven idea that courts never make a false conviction.

(Please note, I didn't say pro-death penalty and anti-abortion--an easier case to make, but still very shaky.)

@2 - Personally, I think the Prez debates oughta be a bit of a hoot, as well. I'm willing to lay money on McCain having an almost out of body experience at one of them, more or less sealing the whole deal then and there.

Seems like we haven't talked about McCain in days!

I shouldn't even need to give you the 10 words it would take to make a logically consistent argument for supporting the death penalty and opposing abortion. Let's just say it uses some of the words: crime, conviction, justice, punishment & innocent.

That is the lamest attempt at a non-argument I've ever seen. You just used 41 words to explain why you couldn't be bothered to offer a perfectly sound 10 word explanation. If you actually had such an explanation, why then not offer it? This statement almost perfectly encapsulates a certain type of "I'm too smart to be bothered to debate you, so I expect you to just take it on my word as a Very Smart Person that you're wrong and I'm right."

Bullshit. If you've got an argument, make it.

@20: HAHAHA. That reminds me of that stupid "david wright" person who was on this blog. He kept saying he was an "economist" so he knew more about the credit crisis in this country. When I called bullshit on him, he never responded.

Typical. I also, can't wait for the VP debates.

And Jonothan, great post..per usual.

Jonathan,

I think you're exaggerating. Again, it's a judgement call whether the *inevitability* of innocent death makes the death penalty immoral. What's the connection to abortion which under their premises is murder?

Flamingbanjo, apologies on the poor rhetoric. I was being snarky.

Jonathan is a scientist and he informs his post with facts and figures (thanks!) It is no respect to the discipline to try to stretch that and talk about our and their moral views on life and death as though they were proven or disproven with similar techniques.

Understand their premise: the fetus is a human life. If you want to catch them in a logical fallacy wait until a fetus is convicted of murder.

Until then we'll have to make do with defending our values. And we do not strengthen our case by abusing scientific reason which is generally one of our strong points.

Dear Jonathan,

All your posts wake up my internal nerdy girl. She has a crush on you.

@4 (Jonathan)

Okay that makes a lot more sense. In my experience, Jesuits have been the most socially liberal Catholics I've ever met. You have to forgive me for being concerned that they were associated with Sarah Palin.

"I'm too fucking disgusted to look it up, but I suspect Governor Palin is both opposed to contraception and in favor of the death penalty."

This may be true, but why is that more "hypocritical" than being opposed to the death penalty and in favor of abortion?

In a nutshell:

I believe that those who support the death penalty are wrong. I believe that those who oppose abortion rights are wrong.

The search for additional demerits for folks who hold both opinions based on "inconsistency" is both fruit and point less.

@24: It is only hypocritical if it proceeds from some sort of absolutist position that all life is sacred and taking life is wrong under all circumstances, even under "greater good" conditions (such as arguing that a child will be born into a life of misery.) The major problem is reconciling this supposed absolute respect for life with things like war or the death penalty where the death of innocents is a given.