Slog - Comments on A River (of Cars) Runs Through It http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it Wow... this is going to be awesome. Frank Chopp—Democrat, House Speaker, and the BIAW's sniveling bitch—has his very own plan for replacing the Viaduct. He wants to build something bigger, wider, and taller—and something more expensive than all the other options currently on the table. Here's an "artist's rendering": Frank Chopp wants to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct with... a mile-long water-front shopping mall. A mall with 100,000 cars a day roaring through it. And office space. But, hey, he's going to a park on top, so everybody wins. Does anyone have a clue as to how much soundproofing would... Copyright 2008 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:13:25 -0800 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:14:53 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by raisedbywolves Look people, being retro is acceptable in terms of fashion and music and things.

But... we really shouldn't start reviving 1970s urban planning ideas, ok?

]]> raisedbywolves http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151074 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151074 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:20:21 -0800 Comment by Banna They should just leave the viaduct as it is so we can park the thousands of pink tents under it that we'll need for Boeing and WaMu employees.

]]> Banna http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151079 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151079 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:26:26 -0800 Comment by max solomon And Frank Chopp has a degree in Urban Planning & Architecture from where again?

Frank, how do trucks service the waterfront businesses? Who's in the 4-story-in-the-air park keeping an eye on the transient tweaker population?

The idea is to REMOVE THE WALL, not make it solid, thicker, & higher.

You fucking bumpkin.

]]> max solomon http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151086 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151086 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:31:46 -0800 Comment by dr_awesome Who cares? It has a pirate ship on it! A fuckin' pirate ship! I am now behind it one-thousand-percent. Pirates! On the viaduct!

]]> dr_awesome http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151090 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151090 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:34:06 -0800 Comment by Giffy Ask the convention center.

]]> Giffy http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151093 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151093 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:35:05 -0800 Comment by Hernandez Ugh. That's a terrible idea.

]]> Hernandez http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151094 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151094 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:35:05 -0800 Comment by erik And one cyclist...don't forget the cyclist, in Lycra, cruising down the sidewalk.

LOOK OUT, BABY IN STROLLER!

]]> erik http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151095 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151095 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:35:47 -0800 Comment by John Bailo
Those "happy bicyclists and pedestrians" will be standing on top of (and breathing) one of the world's largest reservoirs of carbon monoxide.

]]> John Bailo http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151105 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151105 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:40:36 -0800 Comment by This, coming from a huge fan of pirates This is so stupid. I'm speechless.

]]> This, coming from a huge fan of pirates http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151116 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151116 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:47:41 -0800 Comment by Greg Dear Frank Chopp:

Please stop acting like you know shit about transportation planning. Because every time you open your damn mouth, it's immediately obvious to everyone that you don't.

Hoping you lose the next primary,
Seattle.

]]> Greg http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151118 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151118 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:48:32 -0800 Comment by Phenics All that is missing from the plan is an NBA compliant stadium.

]]> Phenics http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151137 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151137 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:00:49 -0800 Comment by The Artist Formerly Known As Sigourney Beaver You know in San Francisco we only got rid of the Embarcadero Freeway by having an earthquake. You guys need an earthquake.

]]> The Artist Formerly Known As Sigourney Beaver http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151138 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151138 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:00:53 -0800 Comment by elenchos Yes, now that I go back and look again, that is definitely a pirate ship. Got my vote, Frank.

Maybe the point is to start from 100% pure crazy and negotiate back to the formerly-non-starter rebuild.

]]> elenchos http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151139 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151139 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:01:26 -0800 Comment by fixo Ugh that's hideous. A cross between Westlake Mall and Southcenter, without the warmth and charm.

]]> fixo http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151141 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151141 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:03:09 -0800 Comment by Levislade Finally, Olympia is taking environmental issues seriously. Everyone knows if we're going to combat global warming we'll need to drastically increase the number of pirate ships in the world. This is a great start. Good thinking, Frank!

]]> Levislade http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151161 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151161 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:21:46 -0800 Comment by sepiolida That's a stupid place for a mall. You don't go to a mall for the view. They don't even have windows. What a waste of waterfront space!

Long live Pike Place!

]]> sepiolida http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151183 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151183 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:29:27 -0800 Comment by jrrrl what exactly is wrong with this idea? if money was no object, wouldn't this clearly be the best? we obviously have soundproofing technology available.

unlike the above-ground or boulevard options, this would provide excellent pedestrian access. unlike those options, the city/state would reap tremendous revenue from the waterfront space and increased tourism.

we'd need a cost and revenue estimate of course, but since when have progressives been against large public works projects that improve our city?

#16: obviously this wouldn't affect pike place.

]]> jrrrl http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151198 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151198 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:37:56 -0800 Comment by Simac How about a revolt in the statehouse where the Democrats remove the mentally ill Chopp and replace him with someone whose brain is WORKING PROPERLY.

]]> Simac http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151202 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151202 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:40:01 -0800 Comment by Mr. X I'm personally still in favor of retrofitting the existing structure (and the only reason it's not being considered seriously is that the State doesn't want it - and set the criteria to include surviving a 1000 year earthquake to push the cost up in order to make it a non-starter), but this isn't as crazy as you might think.

I played a gig in a club in Milan that was in a rail structure that was quite similar to this (albeit much more austere) - full-size heavy gauge trains ran on top of a very long structure that housed retail spaces below.

It was actually pretty old (I would guess well over 50 years) but the noise below was really pretty minimal - even with trains that dwarfed light-rail or trucks running un top.

So it's certainly technically feasible, if not politically.

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151219 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151219 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:45:39 -0800 Comment by Mr. X Oops, "on top" - obviously.

And I hate to break it to ya, Dan, but cars of some sort will be with us for the rest of our natural lives and beyond.

Those 80,000+ people in West Seattle and the similar number in NW Seattle who have no real transit alternatives scheduled for the next 50 years ain't going anywhere, either (literally, if the AWV is removed and not replaced).

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151231 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151231 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:51:01 -0800 Comment by ivan I'm for whatever makes Max Solomon's head explode.

]]> ivan http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151256 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151256 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:03:44 -0800 Comment by max solomon ivan, if this gets WSDOT approval & funding, you'll get your wish.

]]> max solomon http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151268 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151268 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:10:29 -0800 Comment by uncle baggy Mr. X is right. These types of structures are all over Europe, and they work well. They are also the best bang for the buck in terms of retrofitting.

Does anybody really care if shopping is loud? Shopping is already loud. Removing the viaduct completely is a pipe dream, unless we get that 9+ earthquake. If that happens, most of us are buried under rubble anyway, solving the population problem immediately.

]]> uncle baggy http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151283 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151283 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:18:48 -0800 Comment by Gary McNabb Yeah, what we're all clamoring for is another fucking shopping mall. Great!

]]> Gary McNabb http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151284 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151284 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:19:35 -0800 Comment by keshmeshi @17,

If money were no object, then a tunnel would be the best idea.

]]> keshmeshi http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151314 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151314 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:36:37 -0800 Comment by pgreyy #25,

Oooooh! Could we get a tunnel with a shopping mall in it?

]]> pgreyy http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151369 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151369 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:07:27 -0800 Comment by jrrrl #25: you're right, i wasn't thinking. i'd rather have this plan or the tunnel than a boulevard or rebuild, though. i can't imagine this would cost more than a full tunnel?

]]> jrrrl http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151386 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151386 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:16:32 -0800 Comment by max solomon 1. surface solution is cheapest.
2. cut & cover is 2nd cheapest.

the chopp plan is a non-starter. we'd be the laughing stock of the international design community. it would further wall the city off from the bay.

]]> max solomon http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151396 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151396 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:22:01 -0800 Comment by ivan Max Solomon @ 28:

Fuck the international design community, fuck the local design community, and fuck all design communities. I'm not here for them or their portfolios. I just want to get through town without it taking an hour to get two fucking miles.

Form follows function, motherfuckers. Design me something that maintains the same traffic capacity and the same traffic mobility as the present Viaduct does.

If you can do that, more power to you. If you want to look at something you can jack off to, go for it. Just don't bring traffic in this town to a screeching halt.

If not, then leave that Viaduct right where it is, shove your "vision" and your "world class city" right up your asses, and let the engineers deal with the problem.

DOT's job is to move that traffic. Traffic is like abortions. If you don't like abortions, don't have one. If you don't like traffic, stay the fuck home.

]]> ivan http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151464 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151464 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:11:55 -0800 Comment by Mr. X Wanna make Seattle a real laughing stock? Spend your time worrying about being the laughing stock of the "international design community."

Oh, the horrors.

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151468 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151468 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:13:02 -0800 Comment by MrEddieFather Too many seagulls.

Rats of the sky.....

]]> MrEddieFather http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151470 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/a_river_of_cars_runs_through_it#c1151470 City Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:14:53 -0800