Comments on Those Wrestlers from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln...

At least they are cute. Not cute enough to pay to watch but cute.

no one is cute enough to pay for, because you can got to about 5000 free sites with just as cute models. I can't believe people still pay for porn these days...

now they can work full time for fratmen tv! problems ARE opportunities in disguise!

Hey Mike what are a few of the 5000 sites that you speak of. I get bored throughout the day and I do not have the shaved ripped body of those boys so no one is going to pay to watch me so I need new inspirations when I do it for free.

Good Morning Dan,
I agree. Cell phones with cameras are the new Polaroids. I believe the late, great Marshall McLuhan once observed that Polaroids in the 1960s were the newest and easist way to construct instant pornography. I also agree that the under 30 generation is more jaded regarding pornography and other adult entertainment. Especially young women. A few years ago, I attended a Bachelor party. As is customary, we visited a strip joint and several of us fellows were stunned to find 4 attractive 20 something women watching the performance in the club. Flashing is not uncommon. I forget the context but a buddy of mine once asked a female driver stopped at an intersection to "show your tits" as a joke. She obliged. UW along with not a few schools have calenders of bikini clad co-eds. There are now firefighter calendars, "Girls Gone Wild" even Olympic athletic attire (have you seen the Track & Field & Volleyball suits?) is suggestive and sexy. Yep, we live in an exhibitionist age.

This just makes me wanna waggle my junk into the ATM camera.

What's sad is being an exhibitionist that no one cares to look at. Over 40, tits look better in a bra than out of it.

good call, dan. i turned the video cam on me and my girlfriend last night. i can't get enough of that shit. everyone should have videos of themselves getting laid. porn is about imaging yourself in that persons shoe's (or tube socks as the case may be) so why not just wear the socks..er shoes?

I'm also in my mid-forties and I have NO stigma attached to porn at all. Don't lump us all into your assertions.... STFU!

A key point is that NCAA rules prohibit athletes from appearing in pictures for commercial use. Since they got paid and the site charges viewers to see their pictures, they're ineligible to compete anymore and, thus, a good reason for them not to be on the team.

Yes, but why stop there? I think it's a good reason to abolish the NCAA and college athletics altogether.

fnarf: i agree one hundred per cent. how about jack off teams instead?

Not a bad idea, Fnarf - but then who would protect them when they assaulted prostitutes? Or look the other way when they failed drug tests? This NCAA lets athletes continue to represent that oft unenjoyed side of humanity that all of us would flock to had we an arbitrary shielding agency and a free ride to higher education.

Dan, you just like looking at these guys.

I do too. Shame about the basketba... swimmin... no. uh what sport was it again.

@11 What reason? Your slow whiny old ass?

I preferred yesterday's picture of the guy on the left, I can't ogle him properly with today's shadowy photo.

Imagine all the disappointed wrestlers on other teams who were looking forward to "wrestling" these guys. The NCAA has no humanity.

uh, WTF?

I'm a little shocked that a sex columnist equates pornography with villainy, ergo it's evil and bad.

No.

I'm not a big fan of those kind of websites, ("straight" guys get naked and pose for you; I like my men GAY and naked, thanks...)but it seems like an above board business. No one forced those guys to do this and they were compensated. Many people like looking at attractive naked people. What's the harm, and who's the villain? What's with the fucking Christian moralizing? As long as the models are legal, willing and consenting adults, of sound mind and adequately compensated I don't see much need to be all judgemental on them. If you don't like porn, then don't look at it, and don't support it by posting erotic images.

Does that mean all porn is "good"? Of course not; there are plenty of scumballs out there taking advantage of models. Don't give them your business. It's like choosing to shop from Walmart or Costco. One treats their employees well, the other doesn't. Just because Walmart is a scummy company, that doesn't mean all discount retailers are scummy. It's your choice.

I was being sarcastic, Michael. A lot of people are tempted to view the pornographer as the villain -- I don't, however, count myself among their number. Which is why I didn't write, "I view the pornographer the villain," which I would have done, if I did, but I don't. Then I go on to agree with his statement about those dang kids today and their willingness to get naked for the cameras, phone cameras, web cams, etc.

oh.

never mind. I stand corrected.

Maybe keyboards need a special glyph to indicate sarcasm...

Is someone sockpuppeting michael strangeways? Did you really miss the sarcasm?

#10 is right. Unfortunately, the coach's language makes it sound like they are being disciplined for doing pornography.

Maybe they are receiving a more severe punishment than if they had done some modeling for JC Penny's. Anyone know if other NCAA athletes have been disciplined for using their images for (non-pornographic) commercial purposes? Are these boys being unfairly hammered?

@21:
"Anyone know if other NCAA athletes have been disciplined for using their images for (non-pornographic) commercial purposes?"

I know when Matt Leinart used his image for commercial purposes before his last game for USC, he was suspended for one practice then played the entire bowl game. I sense that it might have been handled differently if it were porn.

Fuck the NCAA. The most obvious problem is that the NCAA makes truckloads of cash on athletics, and the athletes can't make a penny.

The other thing that seems weird is if those guys were, say, flipping burgers at McDonalds, then they would be allowed to make money. So, not only does the NCAA prevent athletes from making money from athletics, but they control how the athletes can make money outside of athletics too?

Oh, and Michael: I prefer gay guys in my gay porn too. I don't get the whole, "Ooooh, he's *straight*—that's so hot!" thing. Yeah, yeah: taboos, forbidden (non)fruits and all, but... I'm into gay guys and always have been. Always been mystified by the straight-boy-fetishists out there.

Is there a word for forcing or compelling or coercing others to do things because you personally feel that you have been forced or compelled to?

Because it seems endemic these days. Or has been forever. It's like: "we've been compelled to be this way about certain topics, so you should too, so you can share in our resulting condition." Like moms who encourage childless women to have kids. Or, well, evangelical Christians.

@24 - Dan,

What about boys who don't really define themselves a label and just prefer to be labeled "sexual", basically boys that rate a 2-3 on the Kinsey scale? Go visit the Czech Republic today. You'd be surprised how many guys you meet there that are truly bisexual and fuck both guys and girls or how many str8 boys that enjoy getting fucked on cam for the right pay - aka Bel Ami. I was hanging out with this hot Ukranian guy in Prague back in 2006 and he introduced me to his roommates. One of them was this incredibly hot 5'7" Czech boy with a wrestler's build. My first immediate thought was he looks like a porn model. I asked my friend after we left his place about his roommate and he told me "Oh he's just a str8 guy who gets fucked in gay porn. He has a GF who's cool with it."

So this stigma in the US about porn isn't healthy and harps back to our archaic Puritanical views that's hindering us as a society from progressing like the Europeans are progressing. I wonder if the UW and NCAA would kick off the members of the UW Soccer team if they were filmed singing nude at some party.

that's hot!

thanks DAN!

You can frequently tell in gay porn, when the performers are gay, or not. The gay-for-pay guys look robotic, at best, and awkward and gawky at their worst while the Kinsey 5's and 6's look like they're having a good time, despite the rigors and boredom of filmmaking, and can't wait to dive into that can of worms...I also think it depends on your view of prostitution. If you have no problem with paying someone for sex, you probably don't have a problem with watching "fake" gay guys have sex. If paying for sex is a turn-off for you, you probably won't enjoy watching someone have sex who, in real life, would rather hump your sister than you...E.M. Forster urged us to "only connect" and when the connection is false and forced rather than honest and consensual, you cannot have a real emotional or even purely physically satisfying connection.

@23: I imagine that, ostensibly at least, the NCAA rule about using images for commercial purposes is partly intended to protect the young athletes from exploitation.

Do I think the proprietor of FratmenTV is a villian? Not particularly. Do I think he in any sense exploits innocent and naive young men for personal profit, and probably personal kinks as well? You betcha.

I think a genuine champion of these young men's best interests would have informed them in great detail of the risks involved with this situation, and would have STRENUOUSLY urged them to hold of on the porn for just a couple of years, until they were well out of harm's way of issues like, having your athletic and academic careers destroyed.

And I agree with the sentiment of 22, that yeah, there's a hypocrisy that if this hadn't been gay porn, these two young men would probably just have gotten a slap on the wrist.

The coaching staff at UNL are so hetero-normative it's just downright boring and depressing.

Burning Olympics question #1: Is there Secret Service security surrounding the shower and changing rooms of the Olympic athletes preventing people with cell phone cameras (that would be almost anyone with a heartbeat) from snapping Phelps nude with his size 14 feet and god-knows-how-much-else-of-similar proportion or any of the hot (albeit straight) gymnastics team, e.g. the mouthy Jonathan Horton or Stringer or the Russian?

BTW for guys who are turned on by girls, how many out there are attracted to the little gnomes on the Chinese gymnastic team who, if they are 16 going on 17, then I will be named Obama's running mate - text message @ 11?

#26...which is why Kinsey 1's and Kinsey 6's have a difficult time with dating or fucking bisexuals/the polyamorous. We're always a bit concerned that their minds and sex organs may wander away from our attention...

Rhett,

Apparently you're not aware that the Chinese determine their age from the date the parents initially begin THINKING about having a child, thus those fine young women really are 16. Studies have shown that the majority of couples, on average, begin family planning two to three years before actual conception.

13 years (the Western conception of age, from actual birth)+ 3 years thinking about birth = 16 years old!

(though, judging by the appearance of those fine young ladies, I'm guessing that the parents must have thought about family planning for more like 5 to 6 years, so it would be 10 + 6 = 16...)

@24

Interesting to identify it (straightness) as a fetish...I mean, I just realized that it is festish status for me. I have difficulty getting off to gay porn, all I watch is straight porn (ignoring the chicks)...double dick in vag is like THE hottest...etc. Are there any other qualifiers for fetish?

I have a fetish! HAHA awesome. This is neat to me somehow

@29

Michael Phelps...check him out modeling the new suit. Flash + spandex(ish) = amazing!

You can even see his olympics tatoo under there

http://www.mokers.org/blog/images/2008/02/sports/michael-phelps-speedo.png

YOU'RE WELCOME

Oops #34 was meant for #30

Turned on by girl gym gnomes? Er, not too much.

@8 Sounds great! I really like to watch other guys fuck their girlfriends. So keep up the good work!

I think there's an issue of liberty here, though - two guys are doing something that isn't illegal, given that they're over 18; it happens to be something that was on a gay website, but wasn't gay activity per se. They're off the team, though, and it's because of an NCAA ban on using their image for profit...which seems like a basic level of self expression prohibited because it got mixed up with commerce, but in a way that has very little to do with their sport.

What else would be prohibited? Would modeling clothing or appearing in an A&F ad be off limits? Was there more likelihood of sanction here because it smacked of gay activity? Because it's not illegal, there's no 'innocent until proven guilty' standard as there is when athletes drink underage, steal things, or rape other students...but this seems a lot less worth punishing.

esp. considering what football players at UNL have gotten away with...they could rape and eat babies and it wouldn't hurt their scholarship as long as they got a decent Bowl birth...

So many seem to care so much for that which has so little fucking effect on so few. Like the wrestlers obviously did: "Get a grip!"

Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere is having a good time. - H.L. Mencken

Sorry, but I do think the owner of fratmen.tv is the villian. He's the one in this story who should have known better. These guys are naive, spoiled college athletes from a place without a gay community to speak of who obviously thought they could do anything and remain invincible.

These athletes are going to suffer a lot of damages from having beaten off for John Marsh. Will they be hired to coach wrestling any time soon, for example?

I guess the internet male j/o demand is so great that if a few people get really hurt on the way so be it...there were those soldiers on Activeduty.com also.

@41 The Internet means there's a gay community everywhere and, anyway, since these guys aren't gay, what good would a Boystown in Nebraska do them?

Both wrestlers are over 21, which makes them adults, and college students, which, theoretically, makes them smart (or, at least, educated). I have no doubt they knew what they were doing.

In order to get on this site, the wrestlers had to solicit the site's owner -- not the other way around. It was the wrestlers who decided to pursue this part-time job. They knew when they were doing it that it was against the NCAA rules. It's not the site owner's job to turn down two perfectly good employees just because they have a conflict with somebody else that doesn't affect him.

And, seriously, I couldn't care less what somebody's sexual orientation is in order for me to consider them hot or not. Being gay doesn't make you hot and being straight doesn't make you not. Sometimes you want to see a star make their debut as opposed to taking their 1,000,000th curtain call.

uh, no.

They're adults, albeit young, dumb, naive, arrogant adults but adults nonetheless and they were compensated for their appearance. No one forced them to do this.

And, FYI, they do have gay bars and gay culture in Nebraska...Lincoln has a population of about 250,000 and it's a little over an hour from metro Omaha with a population around 500,000. We're not talking about hayseeds in a podunk town.

Fratmen.tv is updated about weekly and so are other similar sites. That's a lot of demand.

I don't know how John Marsh's website works but some of them have recruiters, often women, on campuses who earn commissions for recruiting these guys to jack off on camera. So I'm not sure the wrestlers went looking for him. Maybe that part will come out over time.

In any case, with his experience cranking out the j/o videos, I believe he should have known that given the level of star athletes these guys were (albeit in wrestling)preserving their anonymity would be next to impossible. That's my opinion on what his level of duty was.

Porn, including gay porn, is so prevalent on the internet that the ongoing damage to these two can't-really-be-that-smart guys should be a follow-up story. Where are those dishonorably discharged soldiers from activeduty.com now?

Sorry, but in my opinion, I still think that the owner of fratmen.tv, John Marsh, is the villian in this story, unless he explained to them that if exposed they would be kicked off the team, lose their scholarships, and probably never be able to benefit from their considerable, extraordinary wrestling talent ever again, and they then still demanded that he film them wacking off.

This libertarian crap about they knew what they were doing, they're grown-ups, they did nothing wrong, a deal's a deal is just that, crap. The way things should be and the way they actually are are two different things.

These young men have been profoundly hurt by this, and I pity them. John Marsh not so much.

And sorry, I don't know the etiquette here. Is there room for disagreement?

Okay, I keep staring at the photo on the right.... is that the tip of his cock that I see at the bottom?!

Yup.

Oh, sorry: NSFW.

According to today's Omaha World-Herald, the two men were not suspended from wrestling by the NCAA but rather by the UNL wrestling team. They may not be in violation of NCAA rules because they did not profit specifically from their affiliation as college athletes. It is legal to be employed or take money while a student-athlete, but one cannot receive any payment FOR being an athlete (such as appearing in an advertisement billed as a wrestler). These two men had previously violated team rules and had run-ins with the law, and comments from coaches made it seem that it was not a difficult decision to kick these guys off of the team for a history of questionable behavior. Even though I think this incident was not particularly objectionable.
And the president/owner/whatever of the website has consistently come across very well, in my opinion, in media coverage. He gave these guys fair warning about what could happen and is protecting the identities of other NCAA athletes on his sites.