Savage Love Savage Love Letter of the Day
posted by August 14 at 13:50 PM
onYou know, it’s not all glamor, this advice column gig.
A lot of my mail comes addressed to “Dan or the Assistant That Reads and Sorts His Mail.” But I read all my own mail, people, and that eats up an awful lot of my time. I can usually tell when a particular letter isn’t going to make the column—because the problem is too dull, too recently discussed, or the letter is way too long—and I’ll stop reading a line or two in, hit delete, and move on with my life. But some long letters suck me and I read them all the way through because I keep expecting that something interesting is about to happen.
Like this letter. Sucked me in, read it all the way through, and at the end I thought… man, if plowing a car into everyone involved would get me back the five minutes of my life that I wasted reading this letter, I would do it.
The letter is after the jump. You got some advice for this kid? Let him have it in comments. Because I got nothin’.
We are in Madison, WI. Please change the names if you print.I’m a 25 year old guy named Rufus, and my roomie, Bill, is 25 and engaged to Lisa, who is 23. The best way to describe what happened on Saturday is to call it a fucking horrow show. I was asked by Lisa several weeks ago to plan Bill’s bachelor party. Whereas I am in the wedding party, I am not the best man. Regardless, I tried to come up with some good, clean, drunken fun because I knew full well that Lisa would not marry Bill if she found out that we went to a strip club or something as wholesome as that. The plan was to hit an all you can eat and drink party zone at a minor-league ball game, and then hit the bars proper. I was told by Lisa that we would be meeting up with the Bachelorette party, which was also Saturday. I wasn’t happy about that, but it was clear that I wasn’t fully planning anything—I was just going to be suggesting for approval and then facilitating it.
So me, Bill, Bill’s brother and best man Dean (I still don’t get why he wasn’t able to pay/plan, but whatever), and a few other guys go to the ball game, where you get a cup and drink at your own pace. All is well and fun, and we have a decent amount of beer. We take a cab back downtown to another guy’s house where we rock some green before hitting the bars. We did 3 rounds of shots over the next hour and a half or so, and ended up at a German beer hall (Bill’s favorite) drinking out of 5 liter steins, pounding our fists on tables and dancing to live polka music. Needless to say, we all get pretty drunk. I’m on the phone, trying to convince more people to show up, when I take a look around and realize that NOBODY is there. After desperately trying to determine if our tab had been settled with the house, I tipped the waitress with all the cash I had left and ran out of the place, looking for the party that I assumed had left. Two blocks up the street, I meet Lisa and a few of her friends, frantically running towards the beer hall. We exchanged concerns that we didn’t know what was going on, and headed back to the beer hall. I lagged for the couple of blocks, still on the phone trying to get people to show up. By the time I got back, Bridezilla was out, screaming at the top of her lungs and thrashing about. Bill was sick. Bill was drunk. We deliberately tried to poison him with alcohol. We were uninvited from the wedding. Many of these things came out of her mouth before she directly insulted me: “How DARE you? How DARE YOU! What kind of friend are you?” At this point, my buddy from out of town started firing back with “kiss my ass” and “are you crazy?”, and I didn’t want Lisa to actually have a reason to be mad at us, so I kept shoving him until we were around the corner and gone for the night. Lisa, still screaming, had to be physically restrained by her friends.
Bill chose his pace of drinking that night and got sick. Bill gets sick from time to time when drinking, so this was nothing new. He never got hurt before, and he didn’t get hurt that night. Lisa passive-aggresively sent me a note on facebook explaining why it was our fault, saying “I’m sorry if you think I overreacted…” which, to me, is bullshit because she clearly thinks she didn’t. I can’t believe the police didn’t come! Is it so unreasonable that a Bachelor is fucked up at his Bachelor party? We didn’t force him to drink anything! It wouldn’t be so infuriating if this was the first time I’d been very publicly insulted and humiliated by Lisa. The first time, she heard me joking with my two guys friends (straight) that they could fuck on my roomie Mikey’s bed that night if they wanted because he was out of town. We make jokes about screwing each other frequently, so this should have been nothing new. The resulting confrontation from Bill was resolved, but not with Lisa. I was dragged off my front porch and berated across the street from a busy 24-hour grocery at 3 AM. It was a mix of child-like sobbing and white-hot fury from Lisa, and I apologized for “even creating the possibility that she could have misinterpreted what I said” to diffuse the situation. Lisa’s friend Sue got in on the flogging, getting all “you don’t KNOW me” in my face. She was right—I didn’t know her, and I never said DICK to or about her. I chalked that one up to misunderstanding and moved on. This time, there was a crowd of at least 35 people, some friends, some strangers that got to watch.
So what do I do, Dan? I won’t apologize this time, because I don’t think I did anything wrong. I was uninvited from the wedding, but apparently reinvited as an invite was placed on my computer screen. Lisa said in her note that she wants to get over it and move along, but I’m not ready for that. She didn’t apologize the first time she publicly humiliated me, and she didn’t this time, either. I know that I’ve been charged with ruining the Bachelor party, and I don’t want to be the one who “ruins” the wedding. I don’t want to be in it anymore. The wedding is in a little over a month. Will I fuck them over too much if I back out? I honestly don’t give a shit if I fuck Lisa over, but I don’t want to hurt Bill—though I’m PISSED at him for not standing up for me. In reality, it’s his goddamn fault for getting that drunk and CALLING his girlfriend over, moaning and whining about it. I haven’t slept in 4 days, and all I do is lay on the couch and think this whole fuck show over in my head. Please help!
Sleepless in Madison
Comments
Jesus!
I'm thinking of that great philosopher of the 1950s who said:
"Danger, Will Robinson!"
Dear Sleepless,
Get out. Get out now.
XOX
--C
Don't go to the wedding. Don't apologize for not going, just don't go. Well, maybe you could apologize to the groom, since he's your friend. If they ever ask or bring it up, you can tell them that the public humiliation and screaming was what did it. If they never speak to you again, well then there's that problem solved.
I would settle for nothing less but a direct apology from her in front of the rest of the people who witnessed her tirade.
Ultimatum. You go to the wedding, but the microsecond Crazy Lisa starts sneaking out of her box, you disappear. Tell Bill ahead of time that's how it's gonna be, and stand your ground on it.
Too many words.
I've read this abortion of a letter twice and I can't figure out what the fuck happened. There are serious holes in the narrative. My advice...die.
Good grief. Just talk to Bill.
You should all fuck each other. In every conceivable combination. On your roommate's bed.
Carry on.
If he's in the wedding party he has to dress up and go to the wedding -- otherwise the bridegroom won't get his tux free.
The bride will be more pissed off that he missed the wedding than that he allowed the groom to drink to excess. If not, she can tell him herself at the rehearsal/rehearsal dinner.
Do you need a friend whose wife is going to clobber you when he drinks himself into a coma? For that matter, do you need a friend who drinks himself into a coma? Swiftly but gently get the hell away from both of them, and stay away from the horrible mink-fight their marriage is going to become.
I can see why you got sucked in. The first paragraph had me anticipating some hot drunken groom and best man sex.
Rufus - these people are not your friends. I know it may look like it, or feel like it from time to time, but trust me. They aren't. I've got a shit-ton of friends, none of whom would ever treat me as you've been treated, nor I them.
So man up, go find some new peeps who actually know what it's like to do unto others, etc., and cut these losers out of your life. Seriously.
This is why I left Madison. Your problem is not unique, but is rather the by-product of the dominant culture in Madison, one that is so alcohol obsessed that stuff like this happens all the time. You're not special, you're just the reason I skipped town after school and moved to a city with access to the arts and music, and something more to do than get loaded on a weekend night. Since I arrived in Seattle, I've noticed a distinct lack of inebriated you
This is why I left Madison. Your problem is not unique, but is rather the by-product of the dominant culture in Madison, one that is so alcohol obsessed that stuff like this happens all the time. You're not special, you're just the reason I skipped town after school and moved to a city with access to the arts and music, and something more to do than get loaded on a weekend night. Since I arrived in Seattle, I've noticed a distinct lack of inebriated you
All I can say after reading this is that I'm glad I don't know any of the people involved. They all sound like idiots.
This letter reads as if Sleepless wrote in on a bar napkin at the beer hall.
He can solve this by nailing Lisa.
This is why I left Madison. Your problem is not unique, but is rather the by-product of the dominant culture in Madison, one that is so alcohol obsessed that stuff like this happens all the time. You're not special, you're just the reason I skipped town after school and moved to a city with access to the arts and music, and something more to do than get loaded on a weekend night. Since I arrived in Seattle, I've noticed a distinct lack of inebriated young women sobbing outside of bars, gas stations, and Capitol Center Foods. Dump the MF'ing city already, get the hell out, or stay and worship the Badger, get drunk, and get in public altercations under the influence.
Rufus:
Don't ever be in the same room with Lisa again.
Keep in email/phone contact with Bill. After the divorce y'all can kick again.
Lisa sounds like she's going to be an awesome wife.
I agree with P to the J. Don't apologize, but suck it up for your friend - and bolt the second she starts getting the psycho blame bug up her ass.
Wow, I wish I could fucking un-read that. That bitch is crazy, and all these kids are idiots. Losing sleep over this bullshit non-problem though? That's ridiculous.
Yeah, reading "a fucking horrow show" at the start had me expecting to encounter descriptions of drunkenness, nudity, pregnancies, public stripping, group sex, lost puppies, car crashes, high condo prices, and forgiveness via facebook. I just got two of those and feel cheated.
He should go to the wedding. He should stay around others at all times so that there are witnesses to his (and her) behavior.
I'd say buy a round of Schick Shadel for everyone, but failing that, at least sober up before writing any letters to advice columnists.
@3 wins but @7 has the best advice.
Wear glasses when you do it though, and then say it was your evil twin who slept with them.
Or Mr. Poe in disguise.
Why do you even know these people? Exchange these defective friends for better ones.
What a heartwarming letter. It sounds like drink-til-he-passes-out Bill found his perfect match in drink-til-she's-a-raging-bitch Lisa.
I'm sure they'll have a highly intoxicated, but hopefully not violent, marriage. They'll probably produce a couple of alcoholic kids too.
As for Rufus, my only advice is to sober up before attempting to compose a letter to Savage Love.
Sleep with a few of Lisa's bridesmaids.
I present to you my three-part plan for great success:
First, call your friend and explain that you'd love to attend his wedding, but you don't want to distract from his happy day by arguing with his wife-to-be. Apologize in advance for missing out on the event, and wish him the best.
Second, DO NOT apologize to Lisa. Bill is an adult, and you are not his babysitter. She is in the wrong here, not you.
Third, DO NOT treat her like shit. Treat her politely but distantly, like that person at your work you don't like but have to tolerate. If she hulks out into Bitch Mode, walk away.
If you follow this advice, you look like the mature, polite guy, and when Lisa and Bill inevitably break up, he'll realize you were right. When he does, don't rub his nose in it... to much.
On the other hand, if he stays with her forever, he is a whiny bitch that needs someone else to run his life, and that makes him a shitty friend. Go hang out with real friends while he stands for hours outside some changing room at the mall, holding his wife's purse.
Bitches me crazy. Your friend Bill is a pussy. Why do you spend so much time with bitches and pussies?
Yeah, I stopped reading that, once the bride sent a facebook message.
Rufus, You don't know it yet, but your friendship with Bill is over. If Lisa is this much of a controlling psycho a month before the wedding, it will only get worse once they're actually married. Under the stress of the wedding ceremony, the likelihood of her going on another psycho tantrum is all but assured. Bill didn't stand up for you before, he won't when she goes postal at the wedding, and he won't when she continues to do it regularly after they are happily married. He's getting tail, and that's all that matters to him... for now at least.
My advice? Move. Now.
McStudent,
Madison does not mourn your departure. In fact, I'm sure they are glad you left. These activities happen everywhere you go, you just chose to focus on them while you were there. Stay away.
Oh, my god. I read "25", "bachelor party", and "beer hall" and I really, 100% expected there to be a drunken bachelor party orgy.
That'll teach me not to get my hopes up.
Murder Suicide.
Have one last weekend with Bill, and then say goodbye. Until his divorce from this fucking harpy is finalized, you'll never be able to enjoy another moment with him again.
Stories like this give me hope. Hope that drunken idiots inevitably find each other and make each other miserable, while leaving the rest of us out of it.
Please Bill and Lisa, stay married until death do you part.
I am horribly dissapointed by the lack of drunken mansex at this party.
Bill needs to GTFO of this relationship as soon as possible. I don't care if there's two sides to the story. Lisa, at best, is fucking nuts. He needs to cancel the wedding and run. RUN.
Dear SiM,
Plow a car through the wedding reception.
#30 - I've dealt with irritating drunks everywhere I've lived. The difference is that in Madison, it was the Dominant Culture. Mifflin, Halloween, Badger Football? The banner events of the year, and all about booze. Elsewhere, the drunken, petulant, middle class white kids just blend into the background din of petty annoyances like late busses and crappy wannabe jam-bands that overcharge at the door but you go because your little brother/sister thinks they're "Killer." In Madison, it is the Dominant Culture, you can't swing an unemployed Music History Ph.D. by the ankle without striking down a small army of wasted attention whores of all genders. This guy and his friends, just another gang of drunken attention whores that think they're so damned important. Nothing to see here folks.
Ah Rufus, many people in this world have faced your same situation: close friend shacks up with awful person, and eventually your friendship with them dissolves.
The best advice is to just embrace the fact that your friendship with Bill is over. You and Lisa will never get along. Bill will never stand up for you because his love for her (or fear of her) precludes him from doing so. Sometimes bad things happen that are entirely out of your control. Bill falling in love with Lisa is one of those things.
Statistically, there's a good chance that they won't go the distance. Take some comfort in that, but don't hold your breath.
And for the love of God, don't bother Dan Savage with your pathetic guy drama unless there's some kind of orgy involved.
I loved 20.
Did it occur to anyone else that the reason Rufus and not Dean, the groom's brother and best man, was "picked" by Lisa to administer this poor excuse for a bachelor party was because she successfully walked over Rufus and imposed her will upon him in the past, and counted on being able to do so again?
I'll bet Dean was approached by Bridezilla about "planning" this abortion of a good time, and Dean thought about it for about a fraction of a second before he told Lisa to stick it up her large, corn fed midwestern ass.
Rufus: get Lisa and Dean in the same room and tell them that Lisa over-reacted, Bill was a terrible friend for not sticking up for you and you're out of the wedding party, re-invitation be damned. Tell them that the only way you'd even consider attending as a groom is if Lisa apologizes for how she acted in the presence of many of the people that witnessed how she embarrassed you.
If they says no and/or she goes nuts, then it's over. You'll never see him within a year anyway.
I think everyone involved needs to calm the fuck down.
These people are young, they're drunk, they're stressed out. Everything in that letter just sounds like emotional wrecks spilling over the edge of their cups -- NOT the end of the world.
Rufus should go to the wedding and pretend like nothing happened. Be cordial but reserved with Lisa; no screaming, no "kiss my ass", no drama, and no excuses for drama. If that means being a little fake, go for it. It's not fake, it's called MANNERS.
Now, maybe Bill's going to wind up a hopeless drunk. Deal with that LATER. He might just be another dumb young guy who hasn't worked out all his beery overdoses yet. Maybe Lisa is a complete shrew. Deal with that LATER. Maybe she's just freaking out because of the wedding -- weddings in America are nothing but psycho-torture endurance tests, you know.
But for now, play it cool, try to act like an adult, try to avoid hanging out with Bill and Lisa together (including at this wedding) if any or all of you are likely to get blotto. Maybe you can learn to get blotto together later without the thrashing about.
Smile, be pleasant, say you're sorry if it comes up. You'd be surprised how many people have horror stories about their batchelor parties. No one died. You'll get over it.
Definitely DO NOT fuck the bride or the groom, now or ever.
(my version of Dan)
SIM,
Why are you worrying so much? I don't remember college roommates for more than their drunken sex fests than I do their political views.
Tell your friend that you are rescinding on the offer to be part of the wedding. Tell him that you wish him the best, but you have to remove yourself for his and your own sake.
Remove Bill's fiance from the facebook account. Find new friends.
This too, shall pass, and you will be a better man for it.
The bitch is crazy.
Love,
Dan
Dan -
Did you change the names before posting this? I hope so.
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@20... i had the same thoughts.
fucking horror show, fucking being the subject, horror being the modifier.
if you are reading this, rufus, the best advice is 42.
I stopped reading at "I was told by Lisa that we would be meeting up with the Bachelorette party".
Seriously... WTF?
I love that Lisa's punishment for Sleepless is to disinvite him from her wedding. Judging by the bride-to-be's control issues, this is not going to be one of those fun weddings where you dance with octogenarian relatives, make out with at least one member of the wedding party, and leave a little bit in love with both of the newlyweds. Hell, there probably won't even be any booze there.
Sleepless should consider himself lucky that he has an excellent excuse not to attend this wedding. He can say, "Look, I know I'm not Lisa's favorite person, and I would hate to do anything to make her special day less special, so I think it would be best for everyone if I skipped the wedding." It's disingenuous as hell, but fuck it.
yip #42 is right.
young dumb drunken stuff happens betweens friends all the time - tru friendship is getting past it and not doing it again.
if you stay friends with that couple and they stay together ya'll laugh about that night in the years to come. . .
. . .at least you did your part for your buddy standing up for him at the weddin'
you have no shame in the long run either way following 42's advice. . .if they break up or if they don't.
I'm just here to add my voice to those despairing the lack of hot bachelor party mansex in this letter. What kind of crap story was that? Jeez.
The letter writer should get nothing because he doesn't actually know what "passive-aggressive" means and yet uses it anyway.
Yes, I am gonna comment any time I see "passive-aggressive" used incorrectly on Slog.
DO THIS: Go to the wedding. Sit there, be happy for the couple, or at least happy for your friend. Be nice. Show all the friends that you are the BETTER person.
REMEMBER: Bill and Lisa do not want anything to go wrong. Don't say shit about fuck. Don't make Bill or Lisa hate you because you acted like a jackass infront of their 85 year old grandparents (Even, or especially, if you are right and correct)
THE RECEPTION: Can you not drink? Don't drink. Be the tea-totaller for an hour. Avoid all subjects about the party night, every party night ever. Be nice. In fact, leave early, after the cake has been cut, before the dancing. That way, once Lisa has a few in her and Bill gets a few more than that in him, thereby making Lisa irrational and angry but not willing to kill her newly minted husband (it sounds like she has the rest of forever to that), and then when Lisa goes ape-shit and trys to blindside you in a drunken rage you wont be there and you wont be in stupid drunk mode yourself. Her family is there, so her asshole ripping machine will be in full gear. REMEMBER: fear bridzilla
DO THIS: say goodbye to Bill, the close BRO of last year. Wish him well on the honeymoon, and infront of Lisa, tell him next year ya'll will go to a game. The reality is, bridezilla will not let the groomette out of the house with friends until either death does them part, or the divorce is final. REMEMEBER: Bill will be known to you as your OLD FRIEND BILL, the one you see once every few years.
#42s advice is terrible.
There's no point in practicing a cordial deceit by showing up at a wedding where you really don't like one of the people getting married. You will not seem like "the mature guy," or the "better" guy. You will seem like the "pussy who is admitting he was wrong by showing up after we both treated him like dirt."
Just call Bill, and tell him that you wish him the best but it would be wrong to accept his hospitality under the circumstances. Send him a nice gift if you want. Move on.
His wife will eventually find another target on which to focus her rage, probably Bill, and you will either get a sincere 'thanks' from him in a year or so or you'll be rid of a jellyfish.
Ooooo, I think @53 takes home the prize.
I'm always in favour of occupying the moral high ground. Then, if irrational fuckwits assail you, they're more likely to be seen for what they are.
I agree, #53's advice is the best way to go about it.
So you decide that you want to go, bring a friend with you if you can or make plans with someone there that you know so you can get out fast if something goes down. Just in case.
My advice is not for the letter-writer, but for Dan:
If you're going to post an e-mail and change the names (which I'm assuming/hoping you did, per the writer's request), please use delightful and amusing names. This letter would have been much more entertaining if it had detailed the travails of Zac Efron, Lindsay Lohan, and Christian Bale.
You're all soooo young - I understand losing sleep over stupidly unfair situation like this because I did the same thing when I was in my 20's and still figuring out how to navigate friendships and relationships at that age, but basically, life is too short to waste it hanging out with irrational assholes.
Get new friends. You don't owe these idiots anything.
Two words. Alcoholics Anonymous.
Sterilization for everyone.
Dear SIM: Seriously, if this is at all true...I think you should go to the wedding and when the minister says "Does anyone here know of any lawful reason why these two should not wed" you calmly speak up. Don't talk to Lisa, talk to Bill. Tell him what a shrew she is, tell him about the public humiliation, her bridezilla moments, then ask him "If she would treat a friend like this, do you really think she'll treat her husband any better?" Then walk out of the church, don't look back, and walk straight out of their lives. Payback can be such a bitch...
@6 -- For realz. Good lord, grow up! If talking to Bill destroys that friendship, then it was probably its time anyway.
Seriously. These people will not be married in five years (if they ever get married at all). No one will remember anyone who was involved in ten years. Just a buzz of good times, the college years.
Drama queens everywhere -- even with the letter writer (God knows what the two straight friends fucking has to do with fuckall). And not one of them should be part of a wedding party, let alone as one of its star performers.
At some point you either are up to the drama or you're not and it sounds like you're having some sobered up second thoughts, which have less to do with the events than the total ridiculous of it all.
Move forward and don't look back or you'll turn into a pillar of shit.
I swear -- you won't even remember the names in ten years.
Rufus, I shall keep this far shorter than your letter (though I enjoyed the entire thing!):
Move out. They're not real friends, they're acquaintances who benefit from you helping split rent three ways. Don't go to the wedding. Get the fuck out NOW.
I agree with everyone who said to stay away from the wedding, and talk to Bill. He sounds like the passive type of guy (the only type who can put up with a Lisa), so nothing will probably change after you talk with him, but at least you can let someone know how you feel about the whole thing, and why you're removing yourself from the situation. You can also make sure that you're not causing him too much of an inconvenience by not being in the wedding party (if he says otherwise, maybe you could suck it up and go to the ceremony, but not the reception).
To add to #54 (if that's the route you choose to take): buy BILL a wedding present, not a present for the two of them. Make sure it's something that only he will want WHEN they get a divorce, so that when he comes back and tries to be your friend again ("I'm such an ass, why did I ever marry her") it'll be something that she would never dream of wanting to take. Like a big mug that says "I'm such an ass, why did I ever marry her."
Go to the wedding. But not as part of the wedding party (which will cost you money for a tux). Act nice, kiss the bride, eat the shitty buffet food, get drunk, dance the funky chicken. Sleep with a bridesmaid, if you must.
As a wedding gift, buy a really nice blank book (scrapbooks/photo albums work well). Print your letter, and every single comment here on Slog. Paste each to an individual page. Give this as a wedding gift. And then never speak to them ever again.
(Sorry if this has been suggested above... didn't read all the comments)
don't go and have a prostitute attempt to give the groom a BJ while he's smeared w/ cake.
The Bride, last time I checked, is never supposed to monitor/participate in the Bachelor party. The story above explains why. Likewise the Bachelorette party is not for the groom.
Serious Answer:
Let go of your pride and whatever the hell old grudge you have (uhh who cares) and write a b/s apology back: (Write so you minimize the real life drama or public scenes.)
"I am sorry if you feel like I was responsible, I noticed that I got an invite, and to be honest I'm flattered that you were able to get over what happened but I think that uninvite was for the best I'd hate for my presence to trigger anything on your special day :,( " --something like that but not as obvious.
Oh look now you look like the "nice guy" instead of the "whiny bitch" crying about "old shit" and now the ball will be in their court with respect to how to keep you in the wedding. If they do want you in their wedding (they probably don't since you are boring and whiny and that's also why you got dumped at the Bachelor party), Bill will take some responsibility and she'll apologize more sincerely. Now the drama on your end is minimized and you can take a BENEDRIL (wow what a concept) and go to bed for once.
In the end, you get to feel like a poor baby and miss the wedding, she gets to feel like a poor baby and have a wedding without you, it's win/win. Openly breaking up with your stupid boyfriend a month before his wedding because his girlfriend didn't apologize for embarrassing you way back whenever your first story happened counts as "escalating the drama", and is always lose/lose. Sorry.
You'll go to the wedding. Bill and Lisa will move to a new place after that. You'll stay friends with Bill but you'll never get along with Lisa, who is jealous of your relationship with Bill. You will tell the bachelor party story to other people in bars to entertain them. After a while they'll get tired of hearing the story, and you'll stop telling it. One day you'll think, "jesus - did I really email Savage Love with this? There wasn't even any sex in it. That was lame." Then Bill and Lisa will split up.
I went through a similar situation. Go to the wedding if you feel like it. If she makes a scene at her wedding, it's her loss, because that's what everyone she knows will remember forever. And THAT would be something worth seeing. If she doesn't, it'll be a nice wedding and you can bone one or more of her friends for a little bit of poetic justice. If you stay home, whatever, but the wedding sounds like it has great potential to be entertaining. I'd go.
Dan, this letter is so obviously a FAKE!! first, who has a bachelor/bachelorette party "a couple months" before the wedding? thats just the most obvious falsehood in the letter, Im surprised at you Dan, for not spotting it sooner. cheers!
Call Lisa and confess that when Bill was drunk he asked to be tagged teamed by the guys, and wanted them to call him Lisa. Problem solved, she's out of his life and you get your buddy back. Later, he will thank you when he's not going through a bitter divorce with a psyco bitch.
In reviewing all of the advice for this young man, I believe that #32 has posted the most constructive and valuable proposal.
I understand why all these people are telling you to go to the wedding and be nice, but why? Your time on this Earth is precious, why would you waste it like that?
Cut your losses and get the hell out. And grow the fuck up.
JesusFC what a waste, there was no sex in that at all and just after I had to close my Manhunt account.
The Lisa's of this world are yet another reason why I'm glad I'm gay.
Sorry I'm late to the game. @16, the truncated double-posts @12 and @13 were so much better. "...a distinct lack of inebriated you..." Almost poetic.
oh thank you Jebus for getting me past my 20s.
This is all unnecessary drama, on every front.
If I were dude, I'd exit stage left. Permanently.
Holy shit what a bunch of losers. They should all look into self-immolation. Fuck. Especially before they breed.
SIM,
Time to move on. Obvisouly you and lisa will never get along. You need to put as distance between you and her as you can. Remove her from your facebook acount.
You can (in theory) still be friends and hang out with bill though. Talk to bill, and tell him that you can no longer be a part of the wedding party. Don't give him any bullshit reason, be up front about it, you can stand his future wife.
You and bill can still hang out for monday night football at the bar or someplace, and do what ever. But don't count on that lasting to long, as it already seems lisa has him by the balls.
Also, I think the best had enough smarts to pass on planning the party, you should have too.
Lisa is a crazy B. Bill is obviously PW'd. You should be AWOL from the wedding, Rufus. Bill will be back after the D-I-V-O-R-C-E.
She's not Bridezilla, she's just a bitch. These two have no business getting married, and why should you have to rent a tux to watch this train wreck.
Politely decline. The marriage won't last more than a year anyway.
First - you need to learn how to communicate intelligently. Second - Lisa is a spoiled immature bitch princess. Third - your buddy Bill has no balls. Fourth - you bunch of losers deserve eachother. I suggest everyone grow up a little, no make that a lot.
@78 - Oh, please, are you seriously suggesting that there are no bitchy gay men. I know plenty of gay men who could give Lisa a run for her money in the bitch department.
For etiquette questions, perhaps it would have been better to write to Ms. Manners.
www.etiquettehell.com
Generally speaking men should not get married PERIOD. But if you do get married, try to make sure in advance you are not marrying a screaming primadonna who puts responsibility for her own (or her fiance's) actions on other people.
Dude, just walk away from these people.
I'm with 5.
I can see why you got sucked in. The first paragraph had me anticipating some hot drunken groom and best man sex.
Ditto from boxofbirds. Otherwise, this just some stupid, drunken drama chalked up to future Greatest Generation.
I'll try to be short and sweet:
You can still be friends with Bill, but obviously not his bride. Talk to him, and explain that you still want to be his friend and hang out, but it has to be done without his bride along. If that ends the friendship, so be it; you tried.
Have the talk before the wedding, that could end up with a good reason to not go. If you go, you are there for the groom only. Be polite to the bride, and don't stay overly long.
I have relationships like that, and they are a bit stressful at times, but worth it.
Did no one else notice that they spent part of their bachelor's party raging to LIVE POLKA?
I mean, really.
Apologize to the groom for not going. Send the gift, and don't go to the wedding. If he asks why, tell him his wife is the problem, tell him what she did, and leave it at that.
a final solution: throw the bitch in the ovens
a better solution: go to the wedding, shit on the wedding cake.
Go to the wedding, put a roofie in Lisa's champagne, sit back and enjoy.
Eddy968: I hate to tell you, but there are definitely he-Lisas in this world.
My advice to Rufus: Read up on borderline personality disorder. Be there for Bill when Lisa turns on him someday, which she will. Until then, stay as far from her as possible.
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