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Wednesday, August 20, 2008

Maverick Moment of the Day

posted by on August 20 at 9:00 AM

Back in May of 1973, John McCain penned what is believed to be his first written account of his time as a POW in Vietnam. In a long piece for US News & World Report, McCain failed to mention the newly re-examined cross story, but did take time to point out that he believed a lot of the guards at the POW camp were gay:

Now I don’t hate them any more—not these particular guys. I hate and detest the leaders. Some guards would just come in and do their job. When they were told to beat you they would come in and do it. Some seemed to get a big bang out of it. A lot of them were homosexual, although never toward us. Some, who were pretty damned sadistic, seemed to get a big thrill out of the beatings.

As Gawker asks:

What?? How did POW McCain know they were gay if they weren’t gay “toward him”? Were the homosexuals the ones who enjoyed the beatings or were the sadists a separate category? We have lots of unanswered questions here. Like—how come he mentions how gay the North Vietnamese were but leaves out that inspiring tale of the cross on the floor he mentioned last weekend?

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Thanks, Graham - the source document features racist comments that Gawker didn't mention.

Posted by Ziggity | August 20, 2008 9:11 AM

What?? How did POW McCain know they were gay if they weren’t gay “toward him”?

Call me crazy but I know plenty of folks to be gay without them being gay "toward me"

Posted by Bobby from Cali | August 20, 2008 9:30 AM

Homosexuality was still considered a psychological ailment at the time, right? So saying that the guards were gay was probably as unremarkable as saying they were sadists -- just another on a list of damning character flaws.

One might perhaps forgive a POW for ascribing unsavory or unflattering traits to his jailers. Of course, now that McCain wants to be President, what he now thinks about gays is highly relevant. As is the question of whether he will be carrying any personal grudges with him into the most powerful political office in the world.

He sure seems to bring up his time in the Hanoi Hilton an awful lot, so I don't think the question of whether he's fully over that traumatic experience should be out-of-bounds.

Posted by flamingbanjo | August 20, 2008 9:34 AM

But I know lots of gays who plan to stay home or vote for McCain, because they are mad that Hillary didn't get the nom. America deserves what it gets.

Posted by Fitz | August 20, 2008 9:36 AM


The fact of the matter, here, is that none of them were gay. He's just being a crazy grandpa. (Fabricating everything with touches of bigotry and a dash of Reagalzheimer's)

Posted by Mr. Poe | August 20, 2008 9:39 AM

$$Money Quote from original article$$

"One time I had a hell of a hemorrhoid and I stewed about it for about three days. Finally, I said, "Look, McCain, you've never known of a single guy who died of a hemorrhoid." So I just ignored it as best I could, and after a few months it went away"

profiles in asshatery

Posted by randy beaver | August 20, 2008 9:42 AM

dead end issue

you CANNOT attack a war hero who was beaten, starved, caged for YEARS

and then expect him to recount his experience like it was every day

the American public will not reward Obama folks if that is what they are trying to do

Posted by John | August 20, 2008 9:43 AM

@5: You know lots of gays like this? Really? How many, would you say? 10? 15? 175? All willing to give up the right to vote, or to vote out of revenge? Do they have meetings to discuss their views, to nurture support from other discontented gays? Do they have a vast network of resources, blogs, campaign gear, etc?

Or could it be . . . no, no, couldn't be . . . but I must ask . . . could it be you're full of shit?

Posted by Ziggity | August 20, 2008 9:43 AM

@5: no, you don't.

As for McCain, they were beating him with sticks and whips -- of COURSE they were gay. That's what gays do.

Posted by Fnarf | August 20, 2008 9:44 AM

dead end issue

you CANNOT attack a war hero who was beaten, starved, caged for YEARS

and then expect him to recount his experience like it was every day

the American public will not reward Obama folks if that is what they are trying to do

Posted by John | August 20, 2008 9:45 AM

if it is proven somehow that mccain is lying, then this will be a huge win for the dems. but i just don't see how that is possible. because of that, this will play out in mccain's favor in the mainstream... i mean, his original story has them holding church service even though they got beat for it. i could be wrong, though.

Posted by infrequent | August 20, 2008 9:56 AM

Why would there be any less Queer stuff going on in that camp then a similiar number of men gathered at random and forced to be together from any culture in the world?

Of course the were sucking and fucking as much as they could ... most of them

Of course the camp commanders had butt boys, American and Asian, that they shared and partied with.

Of course, it is the prison model by a factor of three or four.

MSM is the perfect term - and since the officers in charge held all the cards, I doubt they were shy about their pretty butt boys and good opium.

Oh, I forgot, gay is only allowed in modern America defined by shopping, drinking, rainbow jewelry, and keeping skinny. Get a clue, you all.

Posted by Adam | August 20, 2008 9:58 AM

So, in other words, younger McCain was so undesirable none of his "gay" captors wanted to fuck him. Got it.

Posted by keshmeshi | August 20, 2008 9:58 AM

One thing that's bothered me throughout this whole race; McCain was imprisoned and tortured for half a decade - how is it that he has no PTSD?

If you've ever watched any interviews with combat vets(especially 'nam vets), or even talked with one of our soldiers who did a tour in Vietnam, they're the first to admit that the situations there f'ed with their mind in irreversible manners.

We often see news reports of veterans who recall the 'flashbacks' of these terrible times and then 'go crazy' with rash and/or illegal actions that sometimes involve the killing of innocents at their hands.

If McCain was so traumatized by his experience, why would we even consider electing him? Why are we not hammering him with the concerns that his tortured soul could lead to a mental meltdown in office?

Surely, the abuse that he withstood at the hands of his tormentors (be they homosexual or not)would cause any one of us to lose our shit. Why is half of America willing to risk granting this man the greatest amount of power on the planet?

I fully respect him for fighting for our country, as I do all other military veterans. However, McCain's brain is a potential mine field - ask any vet who went through anything close to what he did. His selective memory is only the tip of the iceberg. When will the media start interviewing psychiatrists to really discuss his mental stability? 2.5 months till election day folks...

Posted by ReverendZ | August 20, 2008 10:04 AM

Truth be told, for you above and your for shit post, John Mc Cain was RAPED a lot by his captors.

Nice white young and good looking American fly boy officer ass, noted family, you bet, with sticks, guns, any number of humiliation gadgets, and and a big number of guards cocks.

Rape, not fucking at all. You are a stupid hot house nit wit.

Posted by Carter | August 20, 2008 10:06 AM

This brings up the importance of digging up all dirt - from the source documents - on John "America Hates Civilians" McCain.

Because you know his comrade Karl Marx Rove and the rest of the krewe are going to go as dirty as they can.

Did anyone else notice he's surrounding himself with really really old people - you know, 70s, 80s - to try to make himself look better?

Posted by Will in Seattle | August 20, 2008 10:08 AM

#6: Yeah, but this quote was from 1973, right? The Pre-Crazy Grandpa Years (now available as a box set!) Released while the war was still ongoing. So portraying the North Vietnamese as sadistic anti-Christian homos would have still had considerable propaganda value as well. Plus, his hatred for them would still have been very fresh.

I agree with the comments saying that it's probably a losing bet to appear to be picking on a guy who was tortured for his country. But there's got to be a way to pose the PTSD question if he keeps bringing this shit up every minute. If he wants people to believe he's moved on and that he isn't seething with white-hot anger and fantasies of revenge every minute of every day, he needs to quit referencing it as the major defining event of his life.

Posted by flamingbanjo | August 20, 2008 10:15 AM

Just to ad some perspective to all this rattle trap posting, John McCain in those Naval pilot days was a dish.

A ten by any measure, and in dress whites would be the talk of any bar in Seattle or SFO or NYC on any night.

Look at the old pix. He was a dish fifty years ago.

Need to run a race based on Obama's messages, not on random attacks from political neophytes which mean nothing ... counter Mc Cain on policy ... he stinks on most issues, and not the least is that he will use nukes.

Posted by Larry | August 20, 2008 10:28 AM

Will - are those really old people still allowed to vote? God, how stupid he is.

Playing to non voters, all those old people.

And surely , none of the old people donate money, do they?

There is a rumor that there are millions and millions of them in Florida, Arizona, and California. Really? Is that true? Sun birds or something.

Oh, dear, I thought touring high schools and scout camps and skate parks is how you win elections ...

Posted by Andrew | August 20, 2008 10:37 AM

PTSD is not a good topic for the campaign. Impuning all POWs as mental cripples and social pariahs... not really going to create a real sense of patriotism from Obama.

Posted by robo | August 20, 2008 11:18 AM

@16 So the hemmoroid story is probably true, then?

Posted by it'smarkmitchell | August 20, 2008 11:29 AM


Why not? Americans rewarded Bush for the lazy, 4F assholes at the Republican Convention wearing Purple Heart bandaids. Republicans turned Kerry's war record, with no evidence that he lied about a damn thing, against him. McCain is lying through his teeth and pulling the POW card whenever he's criticized for anything. His service and his lies about it are fair game.

Posted by keshmeshi | August 20, 2008 11:31 AM

@21, robo, I'm not trying to categorize all POW's (thankfully, I've never been one, so of course, I can't know exactly what each one goes through) - however, my point is: the McCain camp consistently brings up his war time trials, increasingly emphasizing the frustrations and physical traumas he faced - why can we not hear about the possible mental anguish that he continues(quite obviously) to exhibit? If folks are going to nitpick every aspect of Obama's personality, lifestyle and decision making abilities - why are we not affording the same criticism to McCain. If he doesn't have mental issues, then fine, he doesn't. If he does, however, shouldn't his "friends" know about this before making a decision in November?

Posted by ReverendZ | August 20, 2008 11:34 AM

mccain will never be asked by a MSM reporter or anyone at any public forum during the remainder of this campaign to defend these comments or the plagaraized cross story.

whereas obama will have to say over & over that his is not a muslim.

Posted by max solomon | August 20, 2008 12:05 PM

And the crumbling of empire will continue.

Posted by Vince | August 20, 2008 2:10 PM

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