<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<rss version="2.0">
<channel>
<title>Slog - Comments on It&apos;s a Shame About Ray</title>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray</link>
<description> Twenty years ago last weekend, Raymond Carver died of cancer at age 50. The Telegraph writes about his influence, which they determine is still growing. Lish once located Carver&apos;s &quot;value&quot; in his &quot;sense of a particular bleakness&quot;. Most of his editing seems to have been an attempt to heighten this sense, by cutting introspection, description and anything he felt tended towards the sentimental or epiphanic. Lish added as well as subtracted - paragraph breaks between lines of dialogue, enigmatic titles and the limited, repetitive vocabulary of what became known as &quot;K-Mart Realism&quot;. I sure do like Raymond Carver a...</description>
<copyright>Copyright 2008</copyright>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:54:48 -0800</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:20:54 -0800</lastBuildDate>
<generator>http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34</generator>
<docs>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss</docs> 

<item>
<title>Comment by Will in Seattle</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>In related news, old people keep dying from - getting old.</p>

<p>Like McCain.</p>]]></description>
<author>Will in Seattle</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093456</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093456</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:56:54 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Jubilation T. Cornball</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>@1, will you please be quiet please?</p>]]></description>
<author>Jubilation T. Cornball</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093471</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093471</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:09:25 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by John Bailo</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p><br />
Doesn't he fall into that rarified milk-fed veal school of authors mainly presented as "good" during Creative Writing classes at college?   It's that whole Joyce Carol Oates, never leave the dormitory for the real world kind of novel, wouldn't soil myself for Hollywood...unless Meryl Streep played all six roles...even the male ones...</p>]]></description>
<author>John Bailo</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093478</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093478</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:16:32 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by David Schmader</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>3: No. </p>]]></description>
<author>David Schmader</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093484</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093484</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:19:42 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Chris in Tampa</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Raymond Carver is one of the main things I dislike about Postmodernism. I'm not interested in the so-called gritty realism that he and everybody who imitates him tries to portray. </p>

<p>Nevertheless, I also wish Will would please be quiet.</p>]]></description>
<author>Chris in Tampa</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093494</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093494</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:25:09 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Dougsf</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I was more into his writing in my 20's than I am now, but I'd still say he's one of the best short story writers of all time. At that age, he was the perfect antidote to the sea of Tom Robbins' types and all (separately) that Latin romantic mysticism that was all the rage with my peer group.</p>]]></description>
<author>Dougsf</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093505</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093505</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:36:04 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Jubilation T. Cornball</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>@3, oh my goodness.  That was breathtakingly philistine.  You may have posted the most misinformed opinion since...god, I don't know; you're even worse than girlgerms.</p>

<p>Carver's writing is profoundly moving; it's likely that I'll never read another writer capable of so movingly evoking the most profound loneliness of the soul, of hopelessness, of being a finger's touch away from something you must have, but will never have.  Maybe Proulx in Brokeback, but that was one story; Carver did it again and again, in so many brilliantly different ways, and it always felt like hammer blows.</p>

<p>Yes, I met Carver's writing in college.  Guilty as charged.  But I can tell you, my dear Bailo, that after all the MFA workshops and the American Lit MA, from among all those writers read, Carver stands immensely tall among his contemporaries, and his predecessors.<br />
</p>]]></description>
<author>Jubilation T. Cornball</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093510</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093510</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:40:40 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Will in Seattle</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Other things happened in 1988 too, you know.</p>]]></description>
<author>Will in Seattle</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093521</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093521</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:49:33 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Chris in Tampa</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Will, shut up.</p>]]></description>
<author>Chris in Tampa</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093538</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093538</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:59:38 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by PopTart</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I'm unsure how I feel about Carver's writing since I read the New Yorker article about Lish's editing:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/12/24/071224fa_fact" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/12/24/071224fa_fact</a></p>

<p>When does an editor go too far? When does the work become, for all intents and purposes, the editor's vision and not the writer's?</p>]]></description>
<author>PopTart</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093551</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093551</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:14:46 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by kinaidos</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>What we write about when we write about editing:</p>

<p>Editing, an attempt to heighten sense,  cutting introspection, description, the sentimental.<br />
He added as well - </p>

<p>- paragraph breaks between lines of dialogue - </p>

<p>the limited, repetitive vocabulary of “K-Mart Realism”. <br />
</p>]]></description>
<author>kinaidos</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093554</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093554</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:15:58 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Paul Constant</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Holy shit, some of you are wrong. Others of you are right. This is the way of the world, I suppose.</p>]]></description>
<author>Paul Constant</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093608</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093608</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:58:21 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Eric F</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Dirty Realism, as I remember. Granta coined the term.</p>]]></description>
<author>Eric F</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093621</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093621</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:05:31 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by PopTart</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>@10 hey now, since I'm unsure I'm neither right nor wrong. I liked Carver's original story, as re-printed in the New Yorker, more than I liked the edit. But Paul, we rarely agree anyway, so put me down for whatever the opposite of you is.</p>]]></description>
<author>PopTart</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093800</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093800</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:07:26 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by PopTart</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Oh, oops, that was supposed to be @12, directed at Paul. I'm not schizophrenic, I usually do agree with myself...</p>]]></description>
<author>PopTart</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093803</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093803</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:08:51 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by Bob</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Carver was brilliant and needed now more than ever in a world threatened to be overtaken by the Dave Eggers school of hyperdrived bullshit.</p>]]></description>
<author>Bob</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093836</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093836</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:42:14 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by dvnms</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Hard to get through but in Carruth's case, these are actual miles:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMYywOioemA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMYywOioemA</a><br />
</p>]]></description>
<author>dvnms</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093891</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093891</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:47:49 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by dvnms</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>BTW, Carruth mentions a story called "The Ugly Baby."  He must mean "Feathers" (from Cathedral), which is a great story.  Fran and Jack and Bud and Olla witness transcendent love.</p>]]></description>
<author>dvnms</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093904</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1093904</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:26:24 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by fjtrpi rmtgn</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>zsgeuwdfy xlayinwvm gjqmayr epcqtln bqgorxmis qyem oehm</p>]]></description>
<author>fjtrpi rmtgn</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1099334</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1099334</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:16:30 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by fjtrpi rmtgn</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>zsgeuwdfy xlayinwvm gjqmayr epcqtln bqgorxmis qyem oehm</p>]]></description>
<author>fjtrpi rmtgn</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1099336</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1099336</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:17:03 -0800</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Comment by fjtrpi rmtgn</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>zsgeuwdfy xlayinwvm gjqmayr epcqtln bqgorxmis qyem oehm</p>]]></description>
<author>fjtrpi rmtgn</author>
<link>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1099344</link>
<guid>http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/its_a_shame_about_ray#c1099344</guid>
<category>Books</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:20:54 -0800</pubDate>
</item>


</channel>
</rss>
