Slog - Comments on Fleeting Inconvenience Threatens West Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se West Seattle residents are in a tizzy over a developer’s proposal to temporarily block an alley near the West Seattle Junction (the intersection of California Avenue and Southwest Alaska Street). Conner Homes wants to use less than half of the alley for one year while it constructs two buildings that would share a parking garage underneath. During that year, drivers entering the alley would have to drive around the block, and deliveries for some businesses—gasp—would have to enter through the front door. Although the city is encouraging residents to submit comments, that’s not enough for the NIMBAs of West Seattle.... Copyright 2008 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:37:47 -0800 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:50:26 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Scottie Yahtzee NIMBAs! I love it! ha

]]> Scottie Yahtzee http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093427 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093427 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:40:42 -0800 Comment by tiddlywinks Not In My Back Ass

]]> tiddlywinks http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093439 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093439 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:46:54 -0800 Comment by tomasyalba Probably an interesting story here. Maybe you could get a reporter to look into it a little deeper? There may be some reporters sitting near your desk.

]]> tomasyalba http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093445 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093445 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:49:18 -0800 Comment by jmr here's my citizen's report, as I walked by that alley five minutes ago: they need to suck it up and not get in the way of progress.

]]> jmr http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093453 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093453 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:55:27 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle So, I'll bet people in West Seattle are glad that when the Viaduct comes down they'll have far worse problems to deal with for 5-7 years during the rebuild ...

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093458 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093458 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:58:18 -0800 Comment by Mr. X Yeah, god forbid those horrible, horrible longtime residents and neighbors opposing giving up a shared right-of-way to make it more convenient for a developer to make money.

The gall, I tell ya!

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093460 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093460 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:58:50 -0800 Comment by Dougsf So Elliott Bay Brewery is worried about losing access to customer parking? I suppose half an alley is kinda a tight squeeze once you're pretty buzzed. Maybe they can just start a lost and found at the bar for their customer's side mirrors?

It's not like they have to take an illegal left to get there either, the lot entrance would be on the right after passing said blocked alley, if I'm picturing this right.

Of course if people are using that alley to avoid the signal at either end of the street, well that would illegal.

]]> Dougsf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093469 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093469 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:08:41 -0800 Comment by mint chocolate chip Who the fuck are you to say that the city should ignore this? "We" don't have to put up with developers just because you say to suck it up.

]]> mint chocolate chip http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093472 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093472 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:10:06 -0800 Comment by Brian What? Something that's happening outside of Capitol Hill? It must be fucking stupid!

]]> Brian http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093473 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093473 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:10:32 -0800 Comment by Mr. X Another thought. In the olden days, before Greg Nickels told DPD to turn a blind eye to all kinds of glaring land use abuses and B.D.W.A.A.L.U.E (Before Dominic Was Appointed A Land Use Expert By The Stranger), it was common practice to force developers as part of their permit conditions to phase projects to keep public rights of way - be they sidewalks pedestrians rely on or alleys that businesses do - open during construction.

This is not rocket science - other "world class" cities do it all the time, and commerce and progress goes merrily on.

Since when do property rights only apply to people building new projects?

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093490 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093490 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:23:32 -0800 Comment by rb The nimbys in this town are completely out of control.

]]> rb http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093500 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093500 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:30:50 -0800 Comment by lostboy Dougsf @7, it sounds like they want to close half the length of the alley, not the width.

From Dom's original post (under California Giants), it would be the Alaska-facing north end of the north-south alley running parallel to California between Alaska and Edmunds.

Dougsf, I'm not following your point about illegal lefts or a lot entrance on the right.  Care to elaborate?

]]> lostboy http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093502 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093502 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:33:24 -0800 Comment by Westside forever Well, you already can't find parking in the junction due to the projects already in progress. Development--whaaaaa!

That said, if the Elliot Bay Brewery does go under, sad day on the west side.

]]> Westside forever http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093519 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093519 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:46:40 -0800 Comment by alley schmalley The junction is shooting itself in the foot by getting rid of all the surface parking. Much more of it, and it will be like Broadway.

]]> alley schmalley http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093527 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093527 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:51:31 -0800 Comment by Dougsf #12 - Ahhh, I was picturing it the other way. My point might not stand since I was getting backward, but I was imagining the entrance on the right, so all you'd have to do is go another few hundred feet, and turn two rights into the lot. If approaching from the other direction, it's a wash since the alley wouldn't have been any easier than the real entrance.

]]> Dougsf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093534 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093534 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:58:15 -0800 Comment by michael strangeways and what about the children?!?!

FOR GODSAKE, THINK OF THE CHILDRE!

]]> michael strangeways http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093550 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093550 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:12:05 -0800 Comment by lostboy Here is a Google Maps picture of the alley closure (as best I can figure from a few minutes of browsing).

]]> lostboy http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093591 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093591 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:44:39 -0800 Comment by keshmeshi A year is too long a time for this to be a minor inconvenience. And is the city ever going to do something about developers who close off sidewalks on both sides of the street? If I see that shit downtown one more time, I'm going to scream.

]]> keshmeshi http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093598 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093598 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:48:42 -0800 Comment by LH Keshmeshi - re: developers that close off sidewalks. Upon the request of Councilmember Nick Licata (full disclosure - my boss), the Audit Office has done an audit of SDOT's issuance of street use permits for street closures during building construction. There will be a briefing on the recommendations of that audit on Tuesday, September 30th, at the Transportation Committee meeting. We'll see what kind of action the City takes on the Auditor's recommendations, eh?

]]> LH http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093638 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093638 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:19:00 -0800 Comment by Ms Walker Keshmeshi, I walk through downtown all the time and I can't think of a single time I've encountered BOTH sides of any street closed. Can you give us any examples?

]]> Ms Walker http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093639 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093639 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:25:28 -0800 Comment by Mr. X @18 and 20

Whether the closure affects both sides or one side is actually sort of irrelevant - no developer should be allowed to close a public sidewalk or alley for a year (or, in the case of the Lothlorian Apartments on the Ave, for almost a year-and-a-half)- PERIOD.

Other cities require pedestrian access tunnels with construction staging on top - and once again, this is not rocket science.

However, it is a fine example of just how in the pocket of the development community your City Government is (with the notable and sole exception of the aforementioned Councilmember Licata).



]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093649 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093649 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:34:42 -0800 Comment by jm @21 - I also have a major problem with the closing of sidewalks, and even public roadways, particularly along the Eastlake corridor where building projects bring the road down to one lane and rip the street apart, making it unsafe and a bitch to bike on. As for this West Seattle thing, if they're really concerned about keeping the neighborhood beautiful, maybe they should do something about Petco's ugly fucking bright red covered windows that take up half the block. If they're going to complain about beauty, then do something to beautify themselves.

]]> jm http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093670 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093670 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:57:25 -0800 Comment by Pro Growth @21 - Actually it IS relevant. It's one more example of how anti-development NIMBYs spew hyperbole (or in this case simply make shit up) in order make their case. Pathetic. One more reason why you and your ilk (those in favor of regressive land use strategies) are becoming an increasingly reviled and impotent segment of our community.

]]> Pro Growth http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093788 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093788 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:24:01 -0800 Comment by Not a NIMBY Alleys are public rights-of-way but in fact are improved and maintained solely by the abutting property owners -- including the ones being denied the use and enjoyment of this particular alley that they paid for.

Rather than just taking something that doesn't belong to them, the developers should offer some payment to their neighbors -- perhaps a small portion of the increased profits or reduced expenses that they will enjoy by occupying the alley to the exclusion of all others.

]]> Not a NIMBY http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093852 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093852 City Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:32:31 -0800 Comment by Mr. X @23,

Calling names doesn't make your case, and #24 is absolutely correct from a land use, legal, and rational urban planning standpoint.

But please do feel free to point out where I've "made shit up".

(Hint - saying that if we build it in West Seattle it will somehow prevent sprawl ain't gonna cut it.)

BTW - citywide, people who agree with me are still a solid majority.


]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093866 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093866 City Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:42:27 -0800 Comment by Mr. X ...and to put a finer point on it, being reviled by someone who thinks it's perfectly OK to hand over a public sidewalk for the convenience of one for-profit developer is something of an honor.

Thanks for making my day!

(and please, do enlighten us all as to where I "made shit up").


]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093867 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/08/fleeting_inconvenience_threatens_west_se#c1093867 City Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:50:26 -0800