You can't get off an airplane like you can a bus or any other form of transport.

Also: You can get free water on Amtrak. It's warm and sometimes tastes a little odd and sometimes they run out. And you have to have your own cup or bottle. But. Yeah. It's there. Sort of.

Yeah, the difference is that you're allowed to bring those things on the train with you. I always had a bunch of food in my pack when I was in the EU. Charging people for water when they're not allowed to bring water through the checkpoint is the bullshit part of US Air's plan.

Also, trains in France have leg room, luggage space, and sometimes a place to plug your computer in.

So please, don't even pretend that trains in France are as bad as planes in the U.S. They're really not.

And you can carry food into airports, and on to planes. I do it all the time.

And I have never minded about not getting food. I actually think United's little $5 snack boxes are a good deal and pretty tasty. Except, one of them has tuna in it which is a pretty stupid idea for an airplane.

Trains here have those amenities as well - business class on The Cascades is only slightly more than regular fare, but definitely worth it for the extra leg room, the 110 outlet, and the general dearth of small, noisy children in your car.

Heck, they even show movies.

What I don't get is why the airlines don't just have done with all the nickel-and-dime crap and simply jack up fares across-the-board. Everybody knows fuel is more expensive these days, so why not raise prices accordingly, and keep the service levels - however minimal they might be - where they've been for the past decade or so?

Food on airlines seems like a holdover from the days when flying was an extravagant affair. Even on cross-country trips, I won't miss it.

or let me carry my own bottled water on the plan. its water. You can't blow up a plane with bottled water.

but god help us the day a terrorist makes a c4 dildo and smuggles it on the plane up his ass.

And at the elevations planes fly, and without drinking fountains - which do exist on high-speed trains in France, by the way, maybe you need to wake up and actually take one - the lack of water can be a serious health risk, especially if someone is excited and skipping meals (both frequent).

Better to just get with the program and build high-speed passenger/freight trains nationwide that use 1/10th the energy and cause 1/8th the global warming emissions to move somebody at almost the same speed.

What *can* work in this country is regional transportation systems. There should be a Pacific Northwest Railways, for instance, that would interlink everything from Vancouver, B.C., to Eugene, connect major towns and cities east of the Cascades, too. Trains departing every 1-2 hours weekdays in both directions. Electrified routes. 120 mph runs.

California would have one; New England/the Mid-Atlantic could have one. Other regions would follow.

Amtrak should then evolve into bullet train service between these regional systems, sort of like Shinkansen in Japan or TGV or ICE trains in Europe. Delorean-style hydraulic doors, 200-300 mph runs, electrified no-emissions locomotives, minimal stops at towns with 200,000 people or more only, restaurant cars, play cars for kids...

Paradise.

truly paradise

And yes, the plane tickets were expensive, but I was flying halfway around the world, so that was to be expected.

It's not like they were ever "free" anyway. They were just included as part of the price. This latest system is just a marketing ploy...

Like you said, it really bothers me that people can't go a few minutes without something to eat or drink.

If all airlines start charging for water and I'm forced to fly (for work, for example) then I might have to concede on this, but until then the airlines can STFU about how hard it is to turn a profit.

The _one_ point on which I'd disagree is that I think water should have to be provided free, for the reasons pointed out by #21. I recently flew EasyJet, a famously cheap ticket, everything is an extra charge UK carrier, and even they gave me water for free.

The sandwich I make at home -- say, last night's left over roast chicken -- is so far superior to the cafeteria crap in first class...

Thinking about it, without staff on the airplane you'd have all the same asshole passengers you always get, but no half-assed authority figure to keep people from descending into petty infighting. Also, you need someone in a uniform who can calm passengers in a crisis, even if it's just a spot of turbulence that sends some off-balance person into a frenzy. Somebody's got to play that role, and if you took away food and beverages what would they do the rest of the time?

Another reason to ride the train, though as I recall trains have attendants too. They just have a different set of specific responsibilities and food and water aren't included.

I agree about how spacious the loos are and their utility for conjugal relations - but I've done it in the old style rural trains in New Zealand and Australia too so it's not that important.

Stewards and stewardesses are actually there for flight emergencies and to make sure you behave while cooped up.

I agree about the food; my own is better, at least with domestic travel. Flying into Zurich or Tokyo I'll let the airline feed me. But really, water. It's just water. It should be available. First, business, coach. For people. For animals. For potted plants. On trains. On boats. On planes. Honestly, would rather pay a $5 drink tax on the ticket upfront than run out of my bottled water somewhere over the hinterland and slowly dehydrate. Oh well, guess I'll fly to Zurich and pick up the TGV in Geneva and...

Sadly, it's a long way off.

It's an hour after your post and you might not look at this again, but...my understanding is that CHSR is going to be on the ballot in November. That would fund SF/LA/SD if passed, and unlike in the past Arnold is not opposing it outright so it might just happen.

You're right, of course, that there are no plans for high-speed rail between California and the Northwest, and it would be a challenging project because really there are a lot of mountains and aren't that many people between Redding and Eugene and either of those cities is the last stop at best on any proposed high-speed rail system.

Still, regional systems with connecting flights between the regional rail hubs would be an improvement.

Here in the US, BNSF and Union Pacific are also profitable.

Thanks for the update, I actually went to the CHSR sitall sorts of progress I was unaware of. God I hope this gets done in my lifetime.

Dan, them's fighting words. The train is acres better than any plane. It just takes longer, and is sometimes more expensive. (back in the 80's, before the Repubs came along, you could get a sleeper for a song)

When you have the time - and time is the ultimate luxury, whether you make one hundred or one million dollars a year - it is delightful. Even Amtrak.

So there. If you disagree, I'm willing to meet in the alley behind Neighbors for drunken insults, slaps, and big weepy make-up hugs.

France population 64,057,790
Area 547,030 square km

US area: 9,826,630

The US needs about a population slightly bigger than China has for rail to make sense the way it does in Europe. France isn't even the densest country there.

This country is painfully underpopulated.

I've never understood the fuss over food. I normally go 6-8 waking hours at a time without eating. Every day. Don't most people? And how hard is it, as a grown-up, to remember to bring a snack on a long flight?

I'm all for charging people for extras, so us poor people can pack light, fly cheap, and not subsidize your need to bring your entire wardrobe along and drink a liter of "free" soda in-flight.

Let's make airline travel miserable enough so people will demand other forms of travel. It's the 520 argument. Also, rallying for the benefit of major companies is oh so risky of you. Siding with multi-millionaires. Go Republican Dan, who shouldn't be siding with the airlines on anything, because they use a shitton of oil every trip.

But, since he takes the plane frequently, I guess it makes planes acceptable. Oh, and cars are good, only when he uses them to get to the airport.

Additionally, just because it's easy for you to carry a water bottle and lunch doesn't mean it's easy for the rest of us. Not all of us have the extra room in our one carry on bag and additional carry on piece. As a woman I simply need more to go for a three day jaunt to give a talk than you do. I can't just walk around a city in the same shoes I give my lecture in, and I can't get away with a pair of slacks and 3 shirts either! I'm willing to take go for hours without food...but without water? That's just cheap.

This attitude of "rush to the bottom" where they strip every comfort or convenience feature out of air travel for the sake of an extra 50 cents off the ticket price is dooming the only long distance option for most people into a hellish experience, every time without fail.

To argue that the dissatisfaction is really about the bottle ginger ale is missing the big point.