Comments on Sims vs. Sims on Buses
How about transit service that relies on coal?
Geez, ECB - did you even read Sims' piece? He says to hold off until 2010 for a vote that funds additional buses/bus service AND expanded light rail.
Is it too much to ask that you try rebutting the arguments people actually make instead of the ones you wish they had made?
Rising gas prices already have had a profound effect on increased bus ridership. At the current pace, we will reach $8 per gallon by 2013.
This is the kind of bogus shithead analysis that transit has to rely on to scare people into voting for it and riding it.
Hey prices went up $0.05 last week, so at that pace, we'll be at $8/gal in September 2009! Vote for transit NOW!
I loved the humor in Greg's piece.
By the way, we're still going to have to double bus service anyway, when the Viaduct gets dealt with - why do it now, while we are still up in the air as to exactly what we're doing there?
Sims makes the argument that people need alternatives now and that adding service by 2023 is too long to wait.
Buses are full. People don't have any option. Might it better if people had the option of riding light rail? Yes, but only a very few will have that option and not until 2023 from this next vote.
Sound Transit should be forced to send every voter a map showing the nearest stop and when it will open, as well as their nearest bus route and when it will receive more service.
Reality: Short term solution? We need to flood the system with buses to get people using busses that actually arrive and service all of the area (including weekends and evenings, something NO ONE is talking about!) Why do I have a car now? The is no fucking bus service that is reliable in Wedgewood, Every fucking weekend either the 65 or the 71 is missing a bus or a driver never showed up.
Long Term, build and expand light rail/street cars or whatever to replace as many bus routes that are feasable.
Is it just me or does ECB want to wait until 2023 to provide Seattle transportation alternatives?
I'm not a Mayor McCheese fan but he's making more sense than SimCity2000.
Gas is dead, people. Time to start weaning ourselves off our dependency.
Embrace the power of AND.
WE CAN DO BOTH!
seriously, we need expanded bus service now (what about those nifty diesel-electric hybrids) for the short-term and local routes, and we need expanded light-rail for the greater Puget Sound region. Can we please not make this an either/or situation?
We will do both.
But the way things work at elections, you don't do both in the same vote.
There's already a problem with the parks levy being on the same ballot.
I've read this post a few times, and for the life of me, I can't find see where Sims argues "the exact opposite" positions. Earlier, he noted that rising fuel prices could add $140 million to Metro's operating costs over the next five years. Now he's arguing for buses getting a larger slice of a $17 billion, 15-year pie. No contradiction that I can see, unless your point is that we should scrap buses because they run on fuel that costs money.
whatever happened to the piggy back method of mass transit? When will genetic engineering give us a solar powered strongman whose shoulders we can ride on?
It's frustrating that buses and light rail seem to always be framed in an either/or context.
Of course we need to start investing in more light rail now, but it's going to be another 10-15 years before we see the full payoff of that investment. In the meantime, bring on expanded bus service, it is badly needed.
Sound Transit 2 does fund additional bus service, just not the hundreds of buses that Sims is talking about. Sound Transit 2 provides the short-term relief of additional bus service, and the long-term solution of a mass transit option that is reliable and free of dependence from expensive, foreign oil.
The problem with the argument that we need to invest more in buses first is that we've only ever invested in bus transit systems in this area, and yet apparently it hasn't been enough as Sims keeps complaining we need to invest more.
The reason we don't have light rail yet is because people have failed to think long term because they always think too short term. But short term thinking has supposedly left us with too few buses anyway. What a bargain.
Enough! It is time we made the responsible decision to construct a lasting long term solution to problems we know are not going to go away and will only get more expensive to resolve.
Ron Sims will get the buses he needs, that doesn't seem to be a problem - he ordered 500 of them last year or have we all forgotten that: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003710441_buses17m.html
In the meantime, we cannot wait any longer to address our transit infrastructure deficit, or we'll be paying for it worse than anything Sims is concerned about now.
Among the other statements Ron Sims makes that don't quite make sense, there is this. He keeps going on and on about the urgent need for expanded bus service. But then he uses that to make the argument that we should hold off on a vote until 2010. If our alleged need for expanded bus service is so urgent, how do we have the luxury to wait another couple years?
Daniel K @14:
The problem with the argument that we need to invest more in buses first is that we've only ever invested in bus transit systems in this area, and yet apparently it hasn't been enough as Sims keeps complaining we need to invest more.
Y'know, this region already took Ron Sims's basic advice, and look where it has gotten us. King County voters rejected the Forward Thrust mass transit proposals in 1968 and 1970. In the wake of those defeats, voters approved the creation of King County Metro in 1972.
Does anyone seriously believe that, if Ron Sims gets his way and manages to strangle light rail expansion, any actual commuters are going to be thrilled with the alternative? Does anyone seriously believe that, if we can't muster the political will to expand real mass transit, Ron Sims or anyone else is going to muster the political will carry through anything substantially better than our current, crappy transit system? Welcome to the self-perpetuating cycle of Seattle inertia.
Ron Sims: I support light rail.
No, he doesn't.
Ron Sims: (Sound Transit) could greatly build upon the work that King County Metro, Community Transit and Everett Transit are doing to implement bus-rapid-transit routes over the next few years...
No, it isn't -- "bus rapid transit." As lame as BRT is to begin with, Ron Sims's vision of BRT isn't even real BRT. It's a cheap imitation of BRT. It's taking a BRT label and slapping it on conventional express bus service.
It's funny reading Ron Sims say he supports light rail.
He's against it this year. He was against it last year. He fought the Seattle monorail tooth and nail. And even though he says Sound Transit should wait until 2010, can anyone really imagine him supporting anything but a neutered light rail package then?
When was the last time Ron Sims supported mass transit in an actual election? I think you'd have to go back to 1996.
In Central Puget Sound politics, if you're a politician and you don't have an (R) behind your name, the way you fight mass transit is to say you support it (in theory); "it's just this particular plan I can't get behind." And you just keep saying that every time a tangible plan does emerge.
I can't wait to write a check to Larry Phillips's King County Commissioner campaign. It's a shame we aren't able to kick out incumbents until we receive irrefutable proof that they have jumped the shark.
Question: I live in a part of Seattle that is north of downtown and is not the U-District. What does ST2 do for me?
joykiller, let me answer your question @18 with a few questions of my own.
Do you have a job or own a home; do you in any way depend on the continued vibrancy and health of the Seattle area economy? Do you find yourself having to leave your neighborhood on occasion; would you in any way benefit from seeing growth channeled into areas that won't overwhelm the area with congestion? Do you breathe; would you in any way benefit from perhaps having cleaner air?
But you know, arguments based on derived self-interest are admittedly a little too abstract and rationalistic. Ultimately this comes down to how much of a sense of community you feel:
I'd be curious, are residents of the Bay Area who seldom ride BART happy nonetheless to have it? And how much does their assessment of BART depend on whether they take the "me" or "us" view?
@5, 18: Check out the link, look at the map on the last page. 70% of residents and 85% of workers live or work within the basic catch basin provided by this system.
"Geez, ECB - did you even read Sims' piece? He says to hold off until 2010 for a vote that funds additional buses/bus service AND expanded light rail. "
Mr. X (the anti-rail NIMBy LicataChongbot monorail activist who has been fighting light rail for over a decade) now mimicks Ron Sims and his "pro-transit" anti-rail position.
Give it a break, guy.
2010 comes around, Sims realizes he's STILL not chair of Sound Transit...and says "we gotta delay again, just like we did in 2006 and 2008."
If you're going to be disingenuous, Mr. X, at least have the guts to finally switch your voting registration card to "GOP"
Jason,
Lots of Democrats have legitimate differences on how/when/what mass transit is going to look like in our region. By all means, lets do debate them, but please do get over the Capitol Hill-centric notion that anyone who raises any questions is
by definition a Republican. Believe it or not, there are a lot of light rail supporters who actually dare to have issues with having to support it at ANY cost - they used to call this responsible governance.
Sorry, I was wrong about that.
Ron Sims has now officially called for a delayed regional transit vote four years running:
2006 - supported preventing ST from going to the ballot alone so his RTID projects could be added and ST governance could be changed
2007 - feigned opposition to RTID projects, really was fighting rail
2008+2009 - latest pathetic gasp
But, when Sims had his own big ROADS PLAN roll-out two years previous to this string of fighting transit...it was all about NO MORE DELAYS:
Thursday, January 22, 2004
Sims revises proposed transportation plan
As regional leaders try to come to agreement on a transportation package to put before voters, King County Executive Ron Sims yesterday released his latest proposal.
Sims does not have a vote on the three-county Regional Transportation Investment District that would officially adopt a package, but he has refused to stay on the sidelines.
"My goal is to lead," Sims said. "I am fatigued over discussions."
Sims would spend 53 percent on roads, 21 percent on carpool lanes and 26 percent on transit, including $1.33 billion to take light rail to Northgate and to Sea-Tac Airport.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/157617_transit22.html
Ron Sims, Mr. Environment.
Calls for NO DELAY when roads are top of the priority list, 2002 - 2005
Calls for delay to transit vote 2006-2010
Going back over Sims' "rah rah...freeways!" cheerleading makes me realize how much the guy has lost it.....
Seattle Times Local News: Friday, May 03, 2002
$12.6 billion regional plan unveiled for roads, transit
King County Executive Ron Sims and his counterparts from Snohomish and Pierce counties yesterday unveiled a mammoth, $12.6 billion regional transportation-improvement package aimed at the November ballot.
If it makes the ballot, the executives' 10-year package might be the most expensive proposal ever put before the region's voters. It dwarfs the $3.9 billion Sound Transit plan they approved in 1996 and the $6.7 billion package they rejected a year earlier.
But Sims said such a large investment is needed to address "a growing sense of rage that nothing is being done."
...
Nearly $1 billion to extend Sound Transit's proposed light-rail line north from the University District to Northgate and south from Tukwila to South 200th Street in SeaTac.
$1.17 billion in Snohomish County road improvements.
More than $1 billion for new buses and bus service, including "bus rapid transit" projects buses that operate more like trains.
$160 million to extend Sound Transit's "Sounder" commuter-rail line north from Seattle to Everett, and south from Tacoma to DuPont, Pierce County.
All this would be paid for by raising the sales tax 0.5 percent in King County, 0.4 percent in the other two imposing a 0.4 percent motor-vehicle excise tax and a $75 annual vehicle-license fee, and charging tolls on the Alaskan Way Viaduct, I-405 and Highway 520.
Others suggested that, with the statewide package and other tax measures already on the ballot, voters might feel overwhelmed by new taxes and be more inclined to vote against the regional plan.
But Sims said yesterday there was no time to waste.
"You cannot tell people sitting in congestion that we'll have another year of planning," he said.
I get that, Mr. X. Divergent opinions are great. So long as you are honest about the position you're arguing.
I will remind you of your statment above:
"He says to hold off until 2010 for a vote that funds additional buses/bus service AND expanded light rail. "
I'm just pointing out the fact you are repeating the musings of a serial liar.
Which reminds me of the way the right wing operates.
Good for you if you feel like extending your anti-light rail activism into three separate decades.
Just be honest about it.
C'mon Erica, no props for the mayor on a fine op-ed?
I just wanted to take this opportunity to remind everyone we just voted two years ago for Transit Now. A tenth of a cent for 20% more bus service promised Ron Sims. Taxpayers voted to pay to put more buses on the street. But Ron doesn't mention Transit Now in his op-ed. Is that honest?
Shrill much, Jason?
ECB can debate what Sims actually said all she wants (and you can have fun calling our Democratic County Executive a serial liar in debates and pretending that's an irrefutable argument - talk about projecting your own O'Reilly-ism), she ought to debate what he said about delaying the vote rather quoting words he didn't actually say to make the argument she wants to make.
I voted for Sound Transit in 1996, by the way. I might even vote for it again this time - honest mistakes, serious blunders, and outright misrepresentations of the past notwithstanding. People who raise questions about your particular sacred cows aren't necessarily liars, however - and accusing them of it is not a great way to win votes.
Oh, and dude, I'm old, but not three decades of fighting light rail old.
@19: I went to a public school -- unlike ST2, it's something I'll actually use. The WW2 reference is a little before my time, so I'll pass on that.
The package would benefit an extremely tiny portion of the population -- people who live at or near points A, B, and C and work at points C, B, or A. Most of the population does neither, and frankly, I'm not interested in subsidizing people who choose to live across a lake from where they work.
But hey, if it makes us more of a "world class city," it's gotta be good, right?
The economy sucks today, so don't put a gigantic tax on the November ballot.
That's Sims' bottom-line in his piece. Hooray! I agree.
I can't afford it right now. I need to pay my mortgage, buy food, pay my bills, and yes...buy stinking gas.
Of course Sims supports light rail... and other transportation choices like buses and bikes and trails. Evidently, he's the only elected leader who cares to take bugs in his teeth on my behalf to protect my currently empty wallet.
For Christ's sake, Sims chaired Sound Transit at its beginning and through to groundbreaking (on the start of the system that some of us will ride in 2009) when everyone else in this region virtually turned their backs on the idea and on the Sound Transit. Sims took bugs in his teeth then on our behalf too.
I remember two David Horsey cartoons in the Seattle PI insultingly depicting Sims riding atop a dead Sound Transit horse. Horesy, editors, other civic so-called leaders mocked Sims and Sound Transit, yet Sims stood strong kept moving forward. The rail system is schedule to open in 2009 because of Ron Sims. Y'all have mighty short memories. Or, maybe some of you are just new to town.
For the record, in February of 1969, voters passed parts of Forward Thrust. And while rail transit failed in that vote, a full 63% pof the voters voted for the Kingdome! The Kingdome... Voters wants are fickle.
It is cynical of the Sound Transit Board (and ignored by Erica) to risk using the 2008 presidential election to try to get a massive tax passed in this economy.
Sims is saying the economic times are not right. I agree.
I can not afford to pay for proposed Sound Transit tax...another Sound Transit tax. I paid for the proposed Monorail for how many years and was left with empty pockets.
ST2... Not NOW! Come back another day when I can afford to pitch-in again.
What do you mean you can't afford it, 30? The average cost of this package to an individual voter is less than the cost of one tank of gas per year. Shit, skip daily lattes for one month and you've paid your part. Anyone taking a round-trip of 5 miles a couple times a month instead of driving breaks even over the year. Thousands of light-rail users will break even each year by the end of January. This project is cheap.
As for more buses, sure, let's have them. But this package is not so big that it prevents us from separately beefing up local bus service where it is called for. It also makes ST buses much more efficient in the long-term because the rail system will cover the backbone and allow ST to redeploy its bus service more broadly without needing to spend any more of your tax money. We can vote for more rail this year and more buses to deal with the short-term problem as needed.
Also, don't forget the cost of doing nothing. You'll either have to pay taxes for roads that produce less capacity dollar-for-dollar, or do nothing for capacity at all and see more and more of your time sucked up in traffic jams.
Well Cascadian, 31 (would that be the Discovery Institute?... I question where YOU get your averages.)
In response, No. I can not afford the proposed ST2 tax. By the way, I don't drink lattes. They're too expensive. I drink drip coffee from Cupcake Royale, thank you very much.
Considering my current taxes, and then considering what else I can expect to be on the ballot in November (Seattle Parks Levy, Pike Place Market Levy) and knowing about an upcoming increase on my utility bill and garbage... plus the rising cost of food, and gas and having to pay for grocery bags ... etcetera etcetera...
No. I can not afford it.
ST2... No, NOT Now!
Comments Closed
Comments are closed on this post.