City Jesus H.
posted by on July 7 at 9:59 AM
Please, please, people. Don’t ride fixies in the city. I just called 911 for a guy who was at the bottom of a hill trying to slow down for a light. He flew over his handlebars and did a face plant (wearing a helmet, which is great, but also glasses, which shattered and embedded near his eye) and completely tore up his cheek. I hope his eye is OK. He’s on his way to the hospital.
I’m kind of freaked out. Fixies are for tracks, not streets, all right?
but they look soooo cool. how can you possibly look cool on a geared bike?
listen, until a new trend comes along I'm sticking with it.
(note to slats, ride a 10 speed)
What matters if you are riding with no front brake, not so much whether or not you can freewheel. ECB twisted herself in knots claiming all sorts of nonsense about how bikes work back when Bryce Lewis was killed. Good times. (Hint: The late Sheldon Brown has the straight dope on his web pages. Google him.)
I just bought my new used single speed yesterday! Not fixed gear yet.
Uhhhm, sorry, what the hell is a fixie?
amen Annie. At the very least get a damn set of brakes - like the rest of the fuckin' world.
front brakes are good, front and back brakes together are better, and best of all is a fucking geared road bike that is meant for riding hills such as those seattle is riddled with.
@3: a fixed-gear bicycle. here is a wikipedia page on the subject.
I think fixies are a bit irrational seeing as we live in a very hilly city. I don't care if people want to ride them as they are in fact cheap as hell and pretty to look at. On the other hand, people need to put on front brakes. If your chain breaks, you're fucked without one.
no! let the trend fucking fixed gear riding douchebags get maimed and killed. please.
I should have proofed that post for readability. My apologies to the group.
I'm 100% with Annie here. Get a real bike, not a trendy but unworkable machine because you think messengers are cool. Ironically, the Tour de France is on right now, and guess how many fixies are in evidence?
I predict a shitstorm from this post will commence.
Oh those crazy fixed-gear bikes!
This new trend (which actually dates back to the 1800s) is just deplorable, right Fnarf?
Speak for yourself Annie Wags. Amateurs probably shouldn't ride fixed gear as it is physically demanding, and all should use caution on the hill and downtown- but that should be common sense. By your apparent shock and alarm it seems as if you think geared riders never go over their handlebars. Do mountain bike riders ever face plant? Asphalt is unforgiving and all riders will bleed at some point so I'm wondering if you're too squeamish for bike culture? Talk to fixie riders, not AT them, and you may understand why you're seeing more track bikes in the city. And no, its not (entirely) for the sex appeal.
@9, take your own advice; quit biking altogether and buy a car, because biking's really just a gas-price induced fad! As an alternative, quit bitching about other people's favored mode of transportation.
Is it really too much to ask for people to get a single speed with brakes? Is a fixie that much cooler?
And of course no one uses fixed gears in the TdF, Fnarf. I'm not even sure what that piece of information is supposed to contirbute.
Here, I'll try:
"Ironically (I'm puzzled what part of the following sentence is ironic), the TdF is on right now, [sic, perhaps you meant a colon?] and (why is this conjunction here?) guess how many MOUNTAIN BIKES are in evidence?"
You can try too. Other favorites: recumbents, tandems, SUVs.
@12: Darling, my boyfriend of many years owns a fixie (with a front brake). I am perfectly aware of the appeal. And don't be daft--riding a fixie increases the probability that you will sail over your handlebars at a not at all sudden red light (as in the situation I just witnessed) by many many percentage points. Fixies are unsafe at most speeds.
See. This is the kind of stereotyping that I have never understood. People drink lattes because they are rich and snobby. Or elite. They're imitating this or that cultural icon. Fnarf, how do you know why everyone does things?
I think the word "douchebag" is used whenever you're trying to dis somebody you've never met and don't have any real reasons why you have a problem with them. If you have an actual reason why you hate somebody, what is it?
The thing that got me interested was actually the writings of Sheldon Brown, not because I want to be like a bike messenger (I hate bike messengers, truth be told). And I have one of those geared road bikes that is supposedly perfect for the city, and I don't like riding it. And I desperately need to get my thighs in shape for when I take my motorcycle to the track.
Fixie = ok: extra gears don't help you brake.
Fixie - rear brake = ok: rear brakes don't usually help much.
Fixie - front brake = stupid. Period.
no brake? got what he deserved. had a brake? just unlucky, next time he'll try to slow down sooner. good on him for having a helmet though, i see too many kids riding (fix or otherwise) rolling around without a helmet. every time i see it i think to myself, "when they inevitably get hit who do i feel worse for, the kid without the helmet or the poor bastard that kills him/her?"
Fixie = ok: extra gears don't help you brake.
Fixie - rear brake = ok: rear brakes don't usually help much.
Fixie - front brake = stupid. Period.
@11 Wait, so you're justifying fixies because they were all the rage in the 1800s? really...? Why not just go all out and ride a stone wheel down the street?
Annie's argument doesn't make much sense (is this a standard requirement for getting hired over there?).
Obviously this accident was caused by operator error and not equipment failure.
Sorry Annie, try again.
I was biking back home yesterday and saw a girl screaming downhill on a BMX whose brakes had failed. She managed to stop herself, but had a terrifying 2-1/2 block descent. Biking in this city without working brakes = death wish.
The equipment didn't fail because fixies are designed to be used on a track. The operator used it on a street with a hill and a red light. That's the error, and you're making it too.
Fixed gear bikes are not suited to Seattle's terrain. For all but a very few strong riders they are not functional for transportation. They are accessories.
Again, Annie there is an easy way to stop a fixed-gear bike. Even without a front brake. Hell, even if the chain breaks.
But doing so would require that the rider actually knew how to use the equipment.
So again Annie, FTL.
this is ridiculous, very few people ride fixed gear bikes because they look cool. the bikes are far too difficult to ride for people to just grab one and flaunt it, you have to dedicate yourself to learn, and practice. which is what anyone who is considering a fixie should do, practice, a lot, in a safe, traffic free environment. and you should have brakes both front and rear.
additionally, gears don't help you break guys. they allow you to lengthen or shorten your chain so you can increase or decrease resistance thus making hills (slightly) easier. i feel that gears just make your bike heavier and cancel out any benefits they offer, but that's just me.
fixed gear let you have tons of control over you bike but are, in my opinion, impractical for seattle due to the hills, you would be better with a light weight free wheel single speed.
@26 - then how do you explain skateboarding and surfing?
evolution folks. or do fixed gear riders not believe in evolution? as others have said, seattle has hills. lots of hills. if you choose to ride a fixie you are making a fashion statement. of course, we know fixies are all about the fashion since all the fixed gear riders dress the same.
douglas@26:
Umm... what? Resistance? Chain length? Gears allow you to vary your mechanical advantage to maintain your peak output (for most people 80-90rpm, but really, whatever it is for you) regardless of your terrain and resulting speed.
@22: Very good point.
Bad brakes is as bad as no brakes. I wonder how many of the bikers* in this town even know how to check whether their brakes work.
* By "bikers" I mean "people who happen to be riding a bike".
@27 how long did you think about that question before you asked it?
I still can't figure out what a fixed-gear bike is, exactly. It sounds like the bikes every kid in my town had before graduating to a 3- or 5-speed bike. The brakes are just pedalling backwards, right? I have a really hard time imagining that this is what is all the rage, though.
@25 "So again Annie, FTL."
GROSS.
In fairness, many people who ride fixed do so for increased control. An able rider on a fixed gear has more awareness and control than he/she otherwise would on a geared bike--I see nothing wrong with that. 26 has it right: practice makes perfect.
It's awfully unfair for a[n admittedly large] handful of god-awful hipsters to tarnish the reputation of a perfectly good mode of transportation.
@32. Fixed gear bikes don't coast like kids bikes. if the back wheel is moving the pedals are moving.
And to think, just the other day I was walking down the street and two people on fixies went by, one boasting to the other about how awesome it feels to go flying past cars on a downhill.
She wasn't wearing a helmet, of course.
@27 excuse me will? what are you talking about? your not going to start ranting about rice and people in china or some shit are you?
@29 yes big sven, your absolutely right. and yes, resistance. the difference between first and fifth gear for example is a matter of chain length, the shorter the chain the greater the resistance and subsequently the greater the force required to propel the bike. but also the greater the power generated with each pedal. i'm not trying to get all scientific here, my point was that gears have nothing to do with stopping. but, you go right ahead and wikipedia 'drive train' again for some more of those cool stats...
@32, fixie means the rear gear can't move with respect to the wheel it's mounted on - if the wheel is turning, the pedals are too. The kid's bikes you're thinking of use coaster brakes; when you press back on the pedals, a brake pad contacts and slows the wheel. To stop on a fixie (sans brakes), you push back on the pedals, while they're still going forward.
People like 'em because they're dirt simple and pretty to look at. when they're not busy being mashed up at the bottom of hills.
@37 racist.
If the guy went over the handlebars, he probably had a front brake, which he employed too late, locked up, and thus the faceplant. Bad technique more than stupid fixie-ism. Riding brakeless with chopped down handlebars and your seat way up is pretty stupid, you're deliberately limiting your control while playing with 2000 pound lumps of rapidly moving metal. And you don't get to coast, and coasting is good.
Genevieve @32, fixies don't brake by pedaling backward like your old Sturmey-Archer 3-speed coaster brake hub did in grade school. There's no freewheel point either. The single gear is fixed; if the back wheel is turning, the crank is turning. You "brake" by applying reverse pressure but still with forward motion -- forcibly pedaling a little slower than the bike wants to.
They're not appropriate for city streets, full stop.
As for "dates back to the 1800s, right, uh-huh. I can remember a time when there were zero operational velodromes in the US, and "fixies" (which were of course never known by that name, which is of very recent (trendy) origin) were unheard of in ANY context. It's Manhattan bike messengers who started riding them on streets in the 1980s, for very specific reasons, few of which apply to anyone in Seattle (except maybe fatalism).
Joe Ball @12: your use of the word "amateurs" in this context made me laugh out loud. So you're a PROFESSIONAL hipster, now, is it?
You can always tell the serious bike riders in this or any other city. They have fenders, for starters, on the most boring bikes imaginable. Decent panniers, and a real light costing $150 or more. They don't ride fixies, they don't wear advertising all over their jerseys, and they don't blow through stop signs.
Dervla Murphy didn't ride a fixie, did she? But then, you don't know who Dervla Murphy is, do you?
Riding a fixie in the city is like wearing a giant sign saying WANKER on one side and POSEUR on the other.
Fnarf, I will leave you with this quote old man.
"I still feel that varable gears are only for people over forty-five.
Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer?
We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"
--Henri Desgrange, L'Équipe article of 1902
Fnarf, your entire argument against fixies is ad nauseaum and ad homeneim.
Calling people names doesn't explain why fixed years make you fly over the handlebars, no matter how many times you repeat yourself.
Gears not years.
Fnarf wrote:
And yet commenting on the internet about something you know nothing about (wikipedia doesn't count) somehow makes you less of a poseur and a wanker?
Sorry Fnarf, hit the shower's old man.
douglas@37:
(1) "Stats?" "Wikipedia?"
Never post to SLOG after huffing paint.
@37 -
no shit?
douglas, unless you've invented some sort of chain stretcher, your chain is the same length in all gears.
Elenchos, you are unable or unwilling to read. There's plenty of ad hominum in my argument, because annoying fixie twats is hilarious good fun, but plenty of serious argument as well.
Henri Desgrange isn't relevant to 2008 city traffic.
ps- fnarf vs. elenchos would be the best SLOG feud evar.
douglas @26
Where to start? Ok, multiple gears enable a rider to change the gear ratio, i.e. how many times the rear wheel goes around for each full turn of the pedals. This in turn enables a rider to pedal at a comfortable speed (as noted by Big Sven @29) over a wide range of ground speeds by multiplying the torque.
Changing gears is a way to adapt to resistance, not to change it, and there's nothing slight about the effect on hills.
You can feel that bowling balls fall faster than grapes if you like; it might help you win a race to the bottom.
stats are number used to illustrate a point, wikipedia is a website used by nerds to look up stats. as for huffing paint why would i stop, it makes everything so clear, you know like staying on topic.
thank you matil69, for the nit picking of technical facts. but no i didn't invent the derailleur.
This is the same thing Fnarf and I always disagree about: I drink vodka and it can't possibly be because I like vodka. It must be because I'm being duped by peer pressure or some other horrible influence. Pizza, fixies, vodka, whatever. Same issue. But it isn't a feud.
The reason I like fixies is the same reason I like my motorcycle and I like classic cocktails. Less is more. That's all.
The point that fixed gears have been around a long time was meant to counter the claim that it is a "new trend". It's neither here nor there.
I think the real issue is that people who think messengers are cool are attracted to their daredevil riding. Their, shitty, rude, dangerous daredevil riding. Which is why they are called names, and why they crash a lot. Not because their hubs don't freewheel.
ok, thanks to you also lostboy for that stellar demonstration of your nerdery, but once again none of that is particularly relevant to the point that fixed gear vs geared bikes is a false dichotomy, gears don't help you stop, they help you go.
and my preferences for bike design isn't made without experience, i like powering up hills on a single speed and i hate dealing with the extra equipment such as the derailleur. i don't have any experience with bowling balls vs. grapes though, you got me there.
Oh, Jesus, not the vodka thing again. How can you argue with a person who thinks that "vodka" and "classic cocktails" belong in the same paragraph? Yuck. Nasty stuff, and I've never met a vodka drinker yet who could tell the difference between Grey Goose and Fleischman's with the label off.
On the scale of annoyances, though, a vodka drinker isn't quite in the same league as a fixie rider -- though a PREMIUM vodka drinker is probably worse than either.
Even higher up on the ladder, is the profesional internet commentor!
I can't tell the difference between Grey Goose and Belvedere, but I can tell if it's Monarch. And I'm happy to prove it.
And how can a martini not be a classic cocktail? It was invented in the same year as the fixed-gear bicycle.
AND WE ALL KNOW A FIXIE KILLED THE TEEN AT THE U BRIDGE. AIN'T THAT RIGHT PSEUDOJOURNALIST ECB?
douglas @53:
It was all relevant to the point that you don't have a clue what you're talking about concerning gears, and therefore we might want to give little weight to your views on how bicycles work in general.
It really doesn't take a nerd to notice that bike chains don't magically change length as you ride.
There is no vodka in a martini. Never has been, never will be. Gin + dry vermouth + olive or lemon twist as is your preference.
When I was young, I rode a fixed gear. A lot. In fact, I had a couple, one for racing on the velodrome and one for the road. I had only one crash in years of riding the fixed gear up and down the Berkeley hills, and it was due to an equipment failure.
Riding a fixed-gear is a different skill than riding with a freewheel, but it's not inherently more dangerous. On the plus side, my road fixed-gear (with front brake) was a full three pounds lighter than my racing road bike, and with a flippable read hub (one gear on each side for different ratios), I could take it out for a ride with the team on the road and keep up other than fast descents.
Mahtli69 @47:
douglas @51:
Emphasis mine. Offered without comment.
Off-Topic, but relevant:
I have noticed that once a post gets past 30 comments, the arguments tend to go in weird places. Note that this post is about fixed gear bikes, yet on comment 59:
Obviously if you read ALL the comments up to it, it makes sense. But if you start from the top and work back, it's like WTF.
Original Monique @62, I wonder now if 60 is the threshold where the comments tend to go meta?
Thanks 35, 38, and especially 41 for the explanation.
So did this guy have a front brake or not? Hit it, Sheldon.
The more you know...
Just reading the words "juniper berries" makes me feel old.
@65 Exactly! Sheldon Brown is the last word on most these bike debates.
elenchos @66:
Or was, until we went meta again.
I, too, am confused by how a fixie caused him to go over the handlebars. If he had no front brake, he could only lock the rear wheel, which doesn't easily make you go over the handlebars.
And as Sheldon Brown recommends, on a normal bike, you should preferentially use the front brake. If he went head over heels, he probably either didn't know how to ride very well, didn't predict traffic, or had something unexpected happen (hey, no need to blame the victim here).
None of those are made significantly worse by the type of bike being ridden.
OK, I was right there. So, although I was too busy communicating info to 911 to take note of whether or not he had a front brake (and it does seem likely that he did, given that he went over the handlebars), I can assure you that there was nothing unexpected about the traffic, obstacles in the road, or anything else. There was only a red light that had been red for quite a while. (I had stopped at it and was turning left; he came up on my right.)
The fact remains that if he had a standard road bike, with front and back brakes and no distracting back-pedaling to attempt, there is almost zero chance that he would have had this particular accident. Yes, smart riding can minimize the dangers you assume by getting on a fixie. But it's still far more dangerous than a road bike on city streets. Don't kid yourselves.
Wait. Annie, are you even sure whether or not his bike had a freewheel or a fixed hub? And are you saying it's impossible to high-side on a standard road bike? Seriously?
@68 - Maybe he was racing towards the red light, panicked when he figured out he couldn't stop in time, and purposely hit the curb in an attempt to stop (with the logic being that a curb-induced face plant is preferable to being t-boned by a car).
Hopefully people have gotten over "front brakes cause endos" at this point (viz. Sheldon Brown).
That said, if you forget for a second that you're on a fixed gear when you're going at a good clip and lock your knee, the momentum of the bicycle will drive your leg upwards (rear wheel turns pedals as well as pedals turn rear wheel), and that pushes your center of gravity up. And THAT is what will get you over the handlebars.
Definitely a fixed hub. I looked when he was down, and I also saw how he was attempting to stop. He also never made contact with the curb. Of course it's possible to flip over the handlebars on a regular bike, but in this circumstance, where there was ample time to notice the red light, and no other obstacles (including cars crossing the intersection), I am quite certain he would not have had this accident if he had front and back brakes and hadn't been trying to stop by back-pedaling.
How hard is this to grasp? Maybe you wouldn't have crashed if you were in this exact same circumstance. That doesn't mean the bike isn't dangerous and stupid for most city riders.
I don't think it's a question of how hard it is to grasp. It's how hard it is to admit the validity of any criticism of a personal choice when it feels like it is under constant attack.
Annie, what is hard to grasp is how you know that this accident happened only because the bike had a fixed gear. It's like every time a Stranger writer finds a dramatic anecdote, they think they can use that to make all kinds of generalizations. Just because you saw it doesn't prove that the whole world will do exactly what you saw. Even if it happened within the sacred two block radius of the Stranger's offices.
I think I'll be the first to note that his gravest mistake was wearing glasses made of glass as opposed to plastic. Faceplanting is only half the battle; getting glass embedded near your eye is the bad part.
Real men ride Penny-farthings. There's no heavy chain to weigh you down!
Plus, they don't clog up your head with difficult concepts like gear ratios. Leaves more energy for moustache-growin'.
And that, gentlemen, is how you troll the bicycle-hipster community.
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