Comments on With Democrats Like These...
Right! Because what better way to show solidarity for your fellow feminists than to elect a guy who will appoint judges to overturn Roe?! Genius!!
Proving that Republicans don't have a lock on stupidity.
Research, please! Could that be Geraldine Ferraro's mother? This woman is making the same argument -- just uglier.
Gee thanks, bitch.
Her whiny rants mirror Hillary's quite accurately.
Four More Years. Yay.
Let the word go far and wide (or at least to all the mental health institutes in Manhatten) Harriet Christian managed to escape again.
As always, thank you Dan for the clear, calm and compelling political analysis. It's dispassionate and intellectual assessments such as this that makes it so much more likely that Americans will take the Democratic Party seriously.
This is the method O'Reilly and Limbaugh use to make anti-war protectors look like idiots. Find the biggest loudmouth ignoramus you can, and let them have the microphone. Works every time.
@7, yes, agreed, that's a frustrating thing that does happen.
OTOH, we don't give our big loudmouth ignoramuses full time radio and TV shows and make millionaires out of them!
It's not necessarily Hillary's fault that she has some batshit crazy supporters, but she's certainly doing her part to egg them on with the overblown bullshit rhetoric about Florida being like Zimbabwe and whatnot.
You know, after weathering all the complaints about Obama supporters (mostly from sour grapes HRC supporters) and the subsequent arguments that their behavior somehow said something about Obama's candidacy, I'm trying to be a little restrained in my criticisms of HRC supporters, seeing as we do have to win over a number of people.
Leave us alone! Older white women are the most oppressed people on earth! We're like slaves, or Jews in Nazi Germany! Hillary would save us all, but that colored boy came and stole her place! Yes, I said it! And I'm sick of being called racist for it! Will someone please turn up the goddamn air conditioning? It's boiling in here!
Spoken like a true Christian, Harriet!
These people (mostly women, I guess) make me seethe with rage. But I'm sort of with Ziggity up there at #10. Recently, however, it seems that any Hillary supporter who speaks says something utterly and completely ridiculous--Geraldine, Harriet, Harold Ickes. It's disturbing.
Does Harriet Christman have an AM Talk Radio show yet, and/or a guest spot on one of the Fox talking heads shows?
I'll check back again in a few minutes, if not...
I'm now committed to defeating Clinton by any means necessary, if only to keep that prick Ickes from getting anywhere close to the White House.
When I was working for the Obama campaign in Texas running a caucus on the night of their
primary I experience first hand this type of reaction from Hillary supporters. Mostly older women gender centered types who could not accept losing. Even though they had been out organize by a better ground campaign with a much clearer message of change and hope.
They were outnumbered 90 to 10 among those who attended the caucus but they continued to contend that the voting was fixed. Or the system was sexist or that race was a overwhelming reason for the outcome favoring Obama. In many ways they reflect Hillary herself and her excuse making rhetoric.
Unfortunately Clinton is the only one who can reach these people with a message that will bring them about and unify the party. Whether she now takes the opportunity will have much to do with the way she is perceived historically within the Democratic Party. Because the election maybe riding on it.
Has anyone else noticed that the women complaining loudest that "their" votes had been stolen or weren't being counted were all from New York, including Ms. Christian? I understand there's something of a connection between Florida and New York, but I wasn't aware the latter had been absorbed by the former! And yeah, how come "you people" can call me white, but I can't call you black? Because, um, that...um...makes sense? I'm confused.
Jesus, as folks have said, to some degree you can't hold HRC responsible for the actions of her most deranged supporters, but you can hold her responsible for going out of her way to egg them on and feed their fevered imaginations with propoganda.
@13,
Every sane Hillary supporter has either jumped on the Obama bandwagon (Big Sven and Original Monique are good examples.) or at least are shutting up -- admitting that Hillary can't win and that a continued nomination fight only hurts us. So, that's why you only see the crazies at this point.
And I agree with everyone else. These loons don't necessarily reflect badly on Hillary; the fact that she's (probably deliberately) egging them on makes her look bad.
That's a paid Obama supporter.
Dan,
I have to admit Ms. Christian's rant made me chuckle. What a performance! That along with yesterday's NYT website pics of FL and MI advocates at the Rules Meeting must have made a tense conference. Yikes!
Look, Ms. Christian's outburst is similar to Rev. Wright's demagoguery, it's only a question of degree. All candidates have supporters that are wacky. McCain, Clinton and Obama have all had to disavow somebody. They shouldn't necessarily be held accountable to some of their outspoken supporters.
kesh@18-
you only see the crazies at this point
Yup. Die hards are never pleasant. Can't wait for this thing to be over. I'm thinking Wed or Thu. And then I'm going to have a big, stiff drink. Lagavulin at SLOG night, hopefully.
And Harriet wonders why her children never call or write.
That lady could be my grandma. She was angry and said dumb things that she really doesn't mean. She really wanted to see a woman in the White House.
I'm sure her children are mortified.
Yeah if the situation is reversed there'll be Odrama supporters ranting like that too. If Odrama doesn't at least offer her VP nod then forget about getting her die hard supporters to vote for him.
@24
Do any of you hardcore Clinton folks know how to persuade or influence people using any tactics other than tantrums and threats?
Seriously ...
Did she say she was second class coming in here and now has no class? Nice necklaces though.
@26: She actually has a point about having no class...
They're definitely doing a service to feminism by voting for the man who called his wife a "cunt."
Someone should have asked her what exactly the Democratic Party did that she so objects to, besides voting for someone besides her candidate. The rules that they're enforcing for Florida and Michigan were something her candidate endorsed and agreed to, before Clinton realized that following those rules would hurt her chance.
@24:
Flamebait or no, this is the first time I've heard "Odrama." Is it supposed to imply that Obama is overly dramatic? Or that he smells ("Odrama," sounds like "oder")?
Not sure I get how "drama" is insulting. He's a drama queen? Is that the implication? Or his campaign is all about drama and rhetoric rather than practical qualifications (an interesting attempt to turn Hillary's disadvantage when it comes to rhetorical skills into an advantage, perhaps)?
McCain never could have done this kind of damage to Obama. He needed Hillary to do it for him, time and again, for three months after it became clear to everyone but her that she could not win. All you Nader-haters better be equal opportunity haters. Because Nader never did the kind of Republican dirty work that has become the only thing left of Hillary's campaign.
I'd tap that.
That is ECB in about 10 years folks!
That woman is obviously a nut. I don't think it's fair to blame Hillary Clinton or her supporters for this kook's outburst. No more than it is fair to blame Obama for his "former minister's" ranting.
@11
I can only assume you are either a complete dumbass or you've never left your corner of the earth. The world is full of people who are oppressed everyday. Older white women are not even the most oppressed people in the United States. Ever speak to a woman of color,gay person, or someone poor.
Maybe you and the woman on the video should give some thought on how a seasoned politician like Hillary could have waged a campaign so poorly run that a one term senator (who was a dark horse at best) could have come out on top. Hillary had the money, support, and name recoginition. And please for the love of god come up with something better than because she is a oppressed white woman. Racism has played at least a big apart in voting as sexism. ( "the colored boy stole her place" )
One last thought: how can you be a Democrat and be willing to vote aganist the party in such an important election year? The next president is going to nominate the next supreme court justices( you know the lifetime posts). McCain is conservative and most assuredly pro-life. Are you really willing to vote for someone who is opposed to allowing consenting adults the right to make their own choices just so you can punish Obama for having the damn nerve to run for and win the Democratic presidential nomination? I can only say I pity you and others like you and hope more reasonable people turn out for election day.
@35,
Um, the commenter @11 is being sarcastic. I know on the internet sincere statements can sound sarcastic and sarcastic statements can sound sincere, but it's safe to say that #11 didn't expect a response.
News from Dan Savage's glorious war on Iraq:
Mia Farrow's Nephew Dies in Iraq -- Uncle Pens Angry Letter to Editor of Vermont Paper. AN EXCERPT:
"Because of Bush's abusive stop-loss policy, Jason had been sent into an unwanted third tour of duty. He was a father of three and could not afford to lose his pension. Some 'volunteer Army'.
"During his three 15-month tours in Iraq, exposure to roadside bombs and other job-related injuries caused Jason to be hospitalized several times for concussion and internal bleeding and other injuries. Recently, Jason's condition was such that the Department of Defense flew him from Iraq to Dover Air Force Base for surgery. He was released from the hospital into the loving arms of the government who sent him directly back into Iraq. He was put on active duty while he was still on a liquid diet, unable to eat solid food because of a throat hemorrhage due to a botched surgery at a military hospital.
"After his second tour Jason returned home with severe mental and physical issues. He was certainly in no condition to be pressed into a third tour. He wanted out of the army. But Jason was a victim of the liar's back-door draft...
Because of George Bush, the arrogant, the corrupt, the liar, the war criminal, my nephew is dead and my sister and the rest of my family are devastated."
Fuckity fuck fuck eat an asshole blow a dick of your choice look what Dan Savage, America's favorite cocksucker (can't join the ARMY) wrote back in October 2002:
"In the meantime, invading and rebuilding Iraq will not only free the Iraqi people, it will also make the Saudis aware of the consequences they face if they continue to oppress their own people while exporting terrorism and terrorists. The War on Iraq will make it clear to our friends and enemies in the Middle East (and elsewhere) that we mean business: Free your people, reform your societies, liberalize, and democratize... or we're going to come over there, remove you from power, free your people, and reform your societies for ourselves."
ps Fnarf-don't you have a fucking life? Everytime I drop by here for a little danthewarmonger spamming to let his fans know what a deplorable war supporting asshole he is, you are in the thread. Somebody please! Invite Fnarf over for a blow job. Gomez? Mr Poe?
I thought Obama was born in the USA and his mother was a white woman ... so doesn't that make the Hillary supporter look not just dumb but really stupid?
Look, let's move on, it's over - Tuesday is when it's official, and within a week the superdelegate bounce will put Obama over.
it would have been better if she used that [inset slur for non-white person here] full name. well, only his middle name, that is.
a party
divided
will never be
united
Eh. I've heard the "If my candidate isn't nominated, I'm voting for McCain!" nonsense from Obama supporters, too. (Besides, Dan, weren't you a big McCain supporter about a month ago?)
There's plenty of idiocy on both sides. But then, I happen to think it's pretty idiotic to get caught up in this cult of personality hero-worship that turns us all against one another.
Chances are, if Obama has a lick of sense he'll choose Clinton (BTW, anyone ever notice that she's almost never referred to by her last name? No, of course it CAN'T have anything to do with sexism, that's man-hating lesbian talk, that is!) as his running mate. Don't give me that "But he, like, totally hates her!" crap, at the end of the day, they're both politicians. Politicians do what's going to get them elected, or they don't get elected.
And once elected, politicians do what they have to do to stay in power, and that almost never has much to do with keeping promises made to voting public or acting in the people's interests. We normal folk just don't have that much power. Our entire collective voice adds up to just one little factor to be considered and weighed against many other influences of other politicians and big business interests.
Sure, they need our votes, but all they have to do to get that is tell sweeter lies than the other politicians during election time. Otherwise, the job of a president is to preserve the interests of the wealthy elite who got him where he is.
We all know this is true. We say it all the time, we joke about it, we're not really surprised when time and time again, our leaders dissapoint us. So come on, people. Let's get over all the fantasies about which Democrat hero who's going to come in and save us all. It ain't gonna happen. And I think we all know that, and that deep down insecurity is what really makes us so rabid about whichever candidate we support.
Make a choice, make a vote, then let's get on with being active in our world and fixing our problems, rather than sitting at home hugging some politician's picture to our chest and hoping for a miracle. Might as well pray to Jesus for a new pony.
@41 if you've noticed, she's chosen 'Hillary' as her political moniker, not 'Clinton'. dope.
@41: And she's probably chosen "Hillary" as her political moniker for two good reasons: (1) there's this other kinda famous Clinton with whom she could be confused (and with whom she doesn't always want to be confused) if she just went by "Clinton"; and (2) She recognizes that "Hillary!" is a battle cry for those women like Harriet who really want a woman president. And plenty of them weren't all that keen on the other Clinton.
I wonder if the Harriets would be this rabid if John Edwards or Joe Biden were stealing the presidency from HRC.
I am so sick of the Hillary Haters so blind with lurv for Saint Obama that I am sitting out this election. F*ck you all, you deserve President McCain.
As a longtime HRC supporter I would say that woman is pretty fucked up. I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot the press could scrounge up someone to make some inflamatory and gross comments too but I don't think we should put up with the bullshit. I denounce her racism and do not accept her as a spokesperson of my candidate.
I started wearing my Obama button 2 weeks ago and I know the vast majority of Clinton voters will work for Obama. That clip is just some sensationalist bullshit.
43 and 44 - after that whole post, the only thing you can comment on is the one tiny little parenthetical? Oh, that's right, I forgot: saying anything, even as a passing musing, other than "There's no more sexism and women totally have equality, even superiority in this society!" makes you a man-hating feminazi oppressor. My bad.
1. I don't care what she's chosen as her moniker, she's about as aware of how sexism is REALLY affecting her campaign as a rock. It's a pretty standard sexist practice to deprive women of family names, which are a patriachal function (they're patrilineal, duh). It's connected to the tradition of reducing women to essentially children from a social point of view.
2. I really don't think anyone's going to confuse Bill and Hillary at this point when talking about the current presidential candidate. Besides, Bushes are always Bushes (even if their first names are noted at the beginning of the article) and Kennedys are always Kennedys.
3. A battle cry? Yay for tokenism. *gag*
Jeez, lady...it's not like they're deciding the winner of "Dancing With The Stars" here. Calm the #$%& down.
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