``We know that consumer confidence is at all-time lows. We have to give people some sense that they could absorb the rising costs in gas, food and medical care,'' Obama said in an interview with Bloomberg Television today in Pittsburgh.

Yeah, feeding money to inflationary pressure is going to relieve inflationary pressure...

Obama's a politician 1st: a compromiser, a triangulator, a smooth talker, a panderer, and he'll betray every progressive goal there is in the name of expediency & the middle ground.

but he'll also likely be the best president of our lives.

Obama fans after Clinton quit: "Of course Obama has to mouth compromise on FISA, the death penalty and gun control. It's just politics. He needs to do what he needs to do to get elected."

Pandering -- as pure as god intended.

So really, the only thing that worries me is the FISA compromise. Beyond being bad legislative precedent, it shows him as lacking a real spine and gives me a bad taste in my mouth. I was hoping he'd not bend over for his lobbyists, like every other legislator.

I remember in 1992, going to a party to celebrate the Clinton victory. He was going to revolutionize politics. He was part of the new generation. He got it. And he caved on gays in the military within a month, and health care reform went nowhere. It's that kind of shit that made people vote for Nader in 2000.

George Bush - who ran roughshod over everyone who got in his way and did whatever the hell he pleased, Congress and the people be damned - he broke the hearts of his conservative base by not outlawing abortion and homosexuality. And Obama will break the hearts of all the energized young voters attracted that his campaign is attracting. It's the nature of politics.

My only conclusion is that Carlin was right, the reason our politicians suck ass is well, we as a population suck ass.

(Currently 62% / 28% / 10% with 134 votes.)

The death-penalty thing -- is it worth Obama committing political suicide over? It's sad, yes, but putting himself on the side of child rapists would be the end of the whole election.

FISA -- he screwed up. He knows it's the wrong vote and I'm mildly pissed at him.

I still like him and think he'll be a very good president. We'll still have to press on issues we care about and perhaps solve them ourselves, which is how it should be.

It's brazen politic-ing, a quality I expect from someone ruling the demo nomination.

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." - John Adams [1772].

Props to Gleen Greenwald and his commenters for the quote...

His FISA position is disappointing, but predictable. However, before we shed tears of frustration, it's worth noting that we're talking about a bill that will likely be signed into law in August. He could very well work to undo it in January. And it's also worth noting that the retroactive immunity, while anathema to the rule of law, only applies to civil proceedings, not criminal.

So I'm willing to believe that FISA is the first of many disappointments that idealists will suffer at Obama's hands. But it is possible that it's merely a part of a larger strategy.

The idea that he would be some super-progressive ultra-liberal candidate is a myth perpetrated by some of his fans. I know there are now disgruntled Obama supporters who really believed that they would be in agreement with everything he said or did, but that expectation really had no basis in reality. If you call this "pandering", all that means is that you made an unrealistic assessment of his actual views to begin with.

It's called politics kids, if you don't play the game, you can't win.

Bush did it--twice.

Fool me once, shame on you.

I was indifferent through the early days of the primaries and came to support Clinton if only to counteract the phenomenal blank-slate known as Obama. I'm a skeptic, not a cynic. I expect a politician's first duty is to itself and when its interests overlap with my interests it's a beautiful thing. I anticipate greater overlap with my interests and Obama's machinations than with McCain's. Simple arithmetic.

I also agree with earlier comments re liberal orthodoxy. F'rinstance, liberal orthodoxy about guns and gun control should be about policy in light of what is/ is not deemed constitutional.

The only message to take away from these supreme court decisions is that it matters who is appointed. Think about that before you risk letting McCain win.

FISA does suck, though.

It needs to be a landslide. A Clinton-esque, triangulate-the-swing-votes, do-whatever-it-takes landslide.

Another example: when Obama supporters assured us that they (and/or their relatives) would vote for McCain if Obama didn't get the Democratic nomination -- and there were many of these on Slog around the caucuses -- this proves Obama's electability and that his supporters are free-thinking independents loyal to people not parties, etc.; when a small minority of Hillary's primary supporters defect to McCain in the general, it proves they're stupid, crazy, sore-loser bitches.

Aren't people deciding this on the nebulous issues of hope and change?

Anyone thinks they're casting a vote for progressive politics doesn't recognize that it's not on the ballot and it's most populist manifestation left as an option in this election when Edwards dropped out.

You're voting for or against the absurd idea of hope and change in the form of the old guard in a new, more politically viable package. Nobody's voting on anything so pragmatic as left or right.

An elected Obama is not representative of some radical paradigm shift in American attitudes. This is more like Americans toeing the water, still totally poised to go back to the towel and keep reading the same book until the sun comes back out if everything doesn't go perfectly.

Ain't no sunshine. Americans will beat a hasty path back to republican leadership in 4 years if they elect Obama and it doesn't go flawlessly for everyone who swung Dem.

...when a small minority of Hillary's primary supporters defect to McCain in the general, it proves they're stupid, crazy, sore-loser bitches.

Not to mention racist.

Obama supporters assured us that they ... would vote for McCain if Obama didn't get the Democratic nomination ...

... when a small minority of Hillary's primary supporters defect to McCain in the general, it proves they're stupid, crazy, sore-loser bitches

Please.  It was a similarly small minority of Obama supporters, and the rest of us all regarded them as stupid, crazy, would-be sore-losers, same as the face-spiting HRC avengers now.

Now that the goosebumps have subsided, and we know he's an ordinary pol, maybe it's time to re-examine the plain text of some of those utterances that had people swooning in the aisles.

"Progressive" is still in the running, with 1,924 delegates going to Denver.

I keep my Iraq War bloody shirt on the bloody coathanger next to my KKK robes.

The problem is that many of the people who form the core of his support HAVEN'T been around through a few of these cycles. My fear from the beginning has been that the youngsters/recently politically awakened would stop giving his campaign time, money, and passion once the hard block and tackling of the general election started.

The Republicans haven't even started getting dirty yet, and already people are second guessing their enthusiasm for our candidate. The Obama candidacy is an experiment- an experiment to see if the young and the progressive can really field a winning candidate. Get all whiny and pissy and nit-picky, and the experiment won't be repeated.

I haven't found a statement from her on the death penalty or gun cases, but I would be shocked if her positions differed from his.

Remind me again of how different they are?

On the specific issues, I think he nailed the second amendment response, his death penalty answer was understandable pandering, and his FISA vote was unforgiveable pandering. But just because he's completely wrong on that issue doesn't mean he's not likely to be a great president. FDR was the last century's best president, and he threw basically the entire Japanese American population in jail without due process (and tried to pack the Supreme Court with political allies). Lincoln was the best president of the 19th century, and he revoked habeas corpus. Even our presidential heroes made huge mistakes and did unconscionable things. We should hold them accountable, but remember that things can always be worse and that it's our obligation to support the best candidate with a credible chance of winning and then enacting at least part of a positive agenda. That's Obama hands down.

i'm thrilled with everything else. i'm an independent. i agreed with both of his SCOTUS responses.

The death penalty thing? I'm against the death penalty in all forms, but as long as it's legal, the laws should have some consistency. I think most people believe that child rape is about as bad as crime gets. I'm not sure I agree, honestly, but I can see where Obama is coming from.

And FISA? I wanna smack him upside the head for that one.

But I'll still be excited to vote for him.

Sorry, no. Here on Slog at least, it was a surprisingly sizable minority of Obama supporters here on Slog; e.g., regular commenters Cato the Younger Younger, brandon, Original Andrew; #s 8, 26/57, 31, 39 (Bellevue Ave), and 43 from this thread:
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/the_hillary_haters

And if the rest of you thought that way about them at the time, you sure treated them with kid gloves.

I'd much much much rather see the kind of society where we treat mental illness as a matter of course (as opposed to a matter of shame) and help the nutty gun nuts before they decide to kill somebody (and/or themselves) than worry about someone packing.

As for Obama, as the first black candidate for President, he's going to have to be fairly conservative in his positions to counteract the slime machine they are going to launch against him. Just wait - before this is over, they are going to try to paint him as a southside pimp with a welfare queen wife.

He's not running for president of the Seattle Liberals, you know ;-)

Speaking as a former *fervent* Clinton supporter, the SLOG Obama commenters whom I respect gave reasoned, impassioned, often heated, but generally respectful arguments (respectful to me, at least, if not always to my candidate- hiya kesh!)

The assholes? They were just doing their normal thing.

In my own defense, I never said I wouldn't vote for Clinton in the general election. Or at least I'm pretty sure, unless I was drunk.

It is? How the fuck does anyone know that? Is there some measure that defines how many would be murderers decided not to go through with their crime at the last minute because they were afraid of the death penalty?

I know, I'm off on a tangent, but I couldn't let that go. Obama is smart. I'd rather he break a few hearts AND WIN.